Are Sonos ZP90 mods better than standard version?

I use a W4S Sonos ZP90 and I wouldn't go back to the original Sonos ZP90 to feed my Naim DAC for all the cane in Cuba. I use Vortexbox -> W4S Sonos -> Naim DAC/555PS -> Naim amp/speakers and am just as happy with it as I was with CDX2/555PS -> Naim amp/speakers. The advantage for me of the newer system is I can play my music in the office and lounge. I believe the improvements I hear from Rick Cullen's W4S mod are its up-sampling to 88.2/24 and its very low jitter. It sounds very similar/the same as a Meridian G08.2 used as a transport, which has the same up-sampling. low jitter configuration.  

The only possible downside to the mod is that the signal strength seen by the Sonos is slightly less if you use it wirelessly as I do. In my situation I don't think it matters, but it could possibly have an effect if you have a shared wireless environment or your neighbours are on your channel. 

No idea what the others you mention sound like. 

If you use a non-Naim DAC then I cannot vouch for the improvements being as effective. The only separate DACs I have heard and thought they sound good are from Naim, Chord, dCS and I really liked the Berkley Alpha DAC. Some others gave me a headache. There are many DACs I've not heard though. I think all these DACs use a buffer stage. 

Thanks, GF.

Can the W4S modded Sonos play hi-res files (not that I have any yet)?

No it can only play 44.1/16 bit CD type rips (or those MP3 things which I don't have). It up-samples to 88.2/24, but can't play a file that was originally in that format (at least mine won't). 

Not a concern for me as I'm strictly lo-res (3,000 ripped CDs - can't see me buying them again in hi-res, as I'm happy enough with them played through my current set-up)

The Naim UQ is a good alternative if you want hi-res support; it has a very good on-board DAC too and a very good amplifier. I use one in my home office with Eclipse TD speakers and it sounds superb; I use the same Vortexbox for the office and main system. I prefer the Sonos interface to the Naim one, but the Naim one is adequate in it lets me choose and play an album while I work. 

Thing is I have Sonos S5s in two other rooms and for me the GUI on the CR200 is optimal. If I went to a Naim streamer it might be the new ND5 XS, but I suspect the path is more likely to be Sonos ZP90 with nDac (when funds permit).

Well, I also have a modified Sonos ZP 90 for 2 weeks now. I think the most important thing is the jitter reduction. As a digital renderer with 44,1/16 feeding nDac it is IMHO at least as good as ND5XS.

And the Sonos app is a lot better and more robust than nStream. But - there always is a but - it is also not perfect. And I miss informations about bit rates and sampling rates, which is not a big deal if you don't have mp3s (I have a few).

In my opinion the whole streaming thing is not yet technically and GUI-wise mature. So until it will be I'm happy with the modified Sonos. And with my CDX2 which - I have to admit - only rarely plays.

Hello Frankster

Are you using the Rick Cullen (a.k.a Wyred 4 Sound) mod - if so did you opt for his non-up-sampling version or the one like mine that feeds the DAC with 88.2/24 even though it is getting 44.1/16 from my Vortexbox. I went that way because Rick suggested it would give me the best results and the Naim DAC responds well to this; but I've not tried other versions/mods/non-Naim DACs. The only other DAC I had around was a Chord Gem with no S/PDIF input (BT or USB only) so it isn't compatible with Sonos. 

If I moved to the ND5 XS then I think I'd lose the up-sampling feature as well as the Sonos GUI. The only reasons I can see to move to a Naim streamer is if you want the hi-res support (as the Sonos doesn't offer this) or you want to stay all Naim (which is always appealing). 

I agree about the Sonos interface, which I use from an iPAD.  I don't have the dedicated Sonos CR200, but it looks really nice in the pictures. The Sonos is one of the better streaming systems in my view. 

All the best, Guy 

Hello Guy,

the Sonos I'm using was modified by Dr. Gert Volk in Germany. There is no up-sampling, it is mainly jitter reduction and some power supply modification for the digital section as far as I understood. But it sounds great and people here in Germany are giving him very good reviews. He also does digital upgrades for the Linn Sneaky. If you are interested in the technical details I can send you a link (in German but with pictures of the upgrade).

After having the ND5XS at home I was a bit disappointed by the interface (not by the sound) and decided not to spend too much money on streaming now. And I thought a modified Sonos would be a good compromise with good value for money. I was surprised how good it sounds with nDAC/XPS.

I would love to use a Naim streamer in the future. So just waiting for "NDS" and especially for "nStreamPlus", but no need to hurry. 

That's interesting, I'll look him up.

So do you still have an 252 itch to scratch or are you content with your 282?

I think SC and you're done.

Hi TP,

I also like the "forward" sound of the 282. IMHO that's typical Naim and that was what got me into Naim a few years ago. So after reading your review I got my head clear again. But there is a 252 on the bay right now, so you never know

Joking aside, I think I got a really good setup right now and it is also worthwhile not to rush too fast on the upgrade path.

The only thing that still intrigues me is the reduction of box count. I.e. streamer, dac and preamp in one box plus active speakers, plain and simple. So the new Linn DSM series could be interesting. But I don't know if I would like its sound.

For the Sonos-upgrade just take a look at the forum aktiveshoeren.de 

Hi frankster,

Yes I've seen the 252, I'm not tempted 

Interesting read, this Gert chap really knows his stuff. I might send him my ZP90 to get it modified early next year. How much of a difference did it make in your view?

Best

tp

Useful views so far. Many thanks for all this.

Does anyone out there have an Audiocom-modified ZP90?

Hi Nick

I looked at Audiocom mods, but didn't think they addressed the same thing as Rick in using a ZP90 as a digital transport. They didn't replace the Cirrus Logic chip. From, my albeit limited experience, I put down the sonic shortcomings of my Apple Music Server to that very same CL chip because using my MF V-Link to eliminate it does wonders.  Rick's board replaces the offending chip with a higher spec TI one. 

However, I've not heard an Audicom ZP90 so can't say it wouldn't show worthwhile improvements, but I had to make my decision based on what I read rather than my preferred route of an audition. 

Unfortunately, I can't read German so can't follow exactly what Dr. Gert Volk does, but the pictures look impressive and some of the component changes such as using the TentLabs XO (low jitter clock) do look very well thought out and get rid of the cheap CL chip. 

The W4S (Rick's) upgrade introduces up-sampling, not just jitter reduction. So what I use is not bit-perfect. The others go for bit-perfect, which is more pure. Frankster's observations are more useful than mine because improvements he hears are from attention to low noise/jitter. My W4S ZP90 mixes low jitter and up-sampling so I can't say which is dominant in improving the sound. 

Now, to confuse us, the Naim DAC's buffer is a virtual transport so should eliminate jitter problems, but Frankster reports his low jitter ZP90 sounds better; so a lower jitter feed is worthwhile even with a DAC as good as Naim's. I read Naim's white paper and think there should be no audible difference, but there is. I can validate Frankster's observation from my V-Link/Apple experience, which gives audible benefits as Frankster describes; of course, I can't achieve as much as I've Apple's noisy SMPS to overcome.  

With a UQ, the benefits of Dr Gert Volk and Rick Cullen's attention should be greater.The UQ DAC has no buffering. Happy to report W4S Sonos ZP90 into UQ is better than vanilla version and the improvement more pronounced.

So I'd conclude the work of Dr Gert Volk and Rick Cullen is definitely worthwhile. I think whichever you go for will improve the sound, but expect both to sound different. Differences never worry me. My LP12 sounds different from my Sony Cassette Deck, but both are delightful. 

So if you feel your ZP90 needs a boost go for it; I don't think you can lose.

(Possibly get a quote from both to see what you think offers best vfm).

All the best, Guy 

Guy, you could alway use the google translator site, it translates long texts in a blink of an eye, very helpful. Did you see this thread (http://www.aktives-hoeren.de/v....php?f=30&t=1819)? It makes for some interesting reading, even if you already own a Sonos W4S.

Best

tp

Hi,, sorry cant offer any advice on your question,, however good to see a fellow weddo on this forum 

@twp: thank yer very glad!

Jitter is a manifestation of noise, a low jitter ZP90 is a low noise ZP90. The nDAC works sounds better with a low noise transport.

So here's where I'm at so far:

W4S: USD 890 (includes ZP90) or USD 550 for mods only + shipping.

Gert Volk: EUR 300 for digital-only mods + EUR 10 for shipping back to UK (NB - I got a very quick reply from him which is pretty impressive).

Audiocom: GBP 222.48 - GBP 473.52 - GBP 647.52 (depending on level) for digital-only mods + shipping (no reply to my e-mail so far...)

Looks like Volk's the man for me...

As a customer of Gert Volk I have to say that he is indeed very quick. I had my ZP90 after one week. Communication was very pleasant and smooth.

Cheers for the heads up on the Gert Volk - at that price I may give it a go.

+1 for ZP90 modded by Gert Volk. Perfekt service, communiction, vfm and sq @ nDAC-252-300!

Just acquired a Wired for Sound modded ZP90 which I use to feed the optical TOS link on my NDX/252/250 system. Quite impressed with the difference compared to the standard ZP90 one I wa uing beforehand.

I also looked at Audiocomm but AFAIK these units are difficult/virtually impossible to come by as Audiocomm are very busy with other mods.

So, the ZP90 has gone to Gert Volk - I will report back with an update...

Great! Let us know how it sounds once back, really interested in what difference his mods make.

I'm interested too; although I'm delighted with my W4S, I'd be very interested to hear of the good Doctor's work. 

Based on posts in this thread and other sources, I ordered a W4S Sonos which I hooked up to my 202/200/nDac/XPS system this week. I've been a Sonos user for 3 years and love their user interface. Demoing both the US and NDX a few months back, I ended up with US because I simply could not live with the crappy n-stream user experience. Which was a shame because I clearly favoured NDX over the US. Anyway, the W4S Sonos is imo on par with the NDX. Can it get better, I get the sq I remember from NDX with the nice UI of Sonos and support for Spotify and soon also Wimp. So thanks a lot Guido for the recommendations here!