Are Sonos ZP90 mods better than standard version?

On another note, I've read other posts suggesting that disabling the wifi part of Sonos improves it even more. Anyone tried this?

The modified ZP90 is on its way back to me and, almost breathless with excitment, I am tracking it on the DHL website...

Has it arrived?

One attempted delivery while I was out (which Gert told me about having checked online himself - how efficient is that?) Will re-arrange...

And??????

Doh!! .... you don't have an nDAC, do you

OK so here we go...

I am now the proud owner of a Gert Volk modded Sonos ZP90 which I plugged in today to my Audiolab MDAC.

First impressions are favourable; I reckon the music has tightened up, particularly the bass. This bodes well as I suspect the whole thing will keep getting better for a while. It's early doors, as they say, but LA Woman (ho ho) was sounding v good just now, as was Big by New FADS.

Gert's service is excellent; he modded it overnight and sent it straight back (though Parcelforce then left it in my local post office; not Gert's fault).

So far so good; I'll sent another report in a bit.

(And no I don't - yet - have an nDAC; at the moment I have told the house management committee that I have enough boxes...)

Hi Nick,

Are your iniial improvements down to the upgrade or have you inserted the Audiolab Dac at the same time? Were you able to test the changes individually?

Andrew,

I had a couple of weeks with the MDAC and the old Sonos. MDAC made a big (positive) difference; new Sonos has made a positive difference.

Hard to say which upgrade has made the most difference as I have upgraded a whole load of stuff of late; interestingly I reckon buying a decent digital optical interconnect from Sonos to MDac was as good a move as any.

Nick

> I reckon buying a decent digital optical interconnect from Sonos to MDac

A good quality digital optical interconnect is always sensible in my view 

Glad to hear the Doctor gave great service and the upgrades have worked for you even if they are subtle rather than dramatic. 

All the best, Guy 

I thought you didn't have a DAC at all and may have opted for the analogue modification he does. Pleased to see you do have a DAC, although I am not familiar with the Audiolab MDAC....

So how much of a difference do you feel the modification made? Can you describe the changes in any detail / qualify what you described as "a positive difference"?

I added a Rega Dac and the difference was remarkable. Sound gone from below average to very good, a more organic enjoyable sound not unlike my Roksan turntable. Wonder what difference a mod would make ;-)

I think the Gert mod has tightened things up a fair bit; I hear some more control, definitely some tighter bass. It's early days still and I need to keep listening but I am glad I made the effort.

Hi Nick, it's been a few weeks since you got the mod and I'd be grateful to hear what you think of it now.  I currently feed my sonos and an old Arcam alpha 8 cd player into an NDAC/202/200 and the sonos quality is a long way behind the cd transport.  I mailed the doctor yesterday explaining the situation and he replied saying

'I think after modding, the ZP90 will be better than the Arcam CD transport. Believe me, it's playing in another league.'

If true, I'll be very happy with this improvment.  If anyone else is interested he also described what the upgrade involved

'An additional board with a very accurate new masterclock, appropriate power supply and a reclocking circuit for the S/PDIF output will be integrated. It's 300 Euro + 10 for shipping + 19% VAT.'

Once we choose which modification to go for (also checking out other suppliers), a friend and I will share the cost and modify one of our sonos ZP90s.  We'll do side by side testing to compare the difference and decide if it's worth getting the second one done.  I've not read any direct comparisons like this so will post back if anyone's interested.

David

Be very interested Dave. Hope it prooves beneficial.

That would be great Dave, really interested in your findings!

Thanks

tp

For those who don’t know, Steve Nugent with Empirical Audio is releasing a new re-clocker in a few weeks and it will cost $600.  The product is called “Synchro-Mesh, and is said to sound almost as good as his highly regarded and more expensive Pace-Car reclocker.   The Synchro-Mesh will work with Sonos and other all-in-one music servers, like Apple TV, Airport Express, etc.  Hard to say whether it will sound better than W4S Sonos mods but if past performance is any guide, the Synchro-Mesh should be terrific.  The product is not yet on the Empirical Audio website, but you should be posted soon.  In the mean time you can follow the progress here:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=102003.0

Thanks kendrick, I hadn't heard of that one but at 600 dollars it's just a little too expensive for this experiment. In the absence of any definitive comparison we've decided on dr volk and the zp90 gets sent off tomorrow.

At the risk of flogging a dead horse - since the Naim DAC is asynchronous it shouldn't make any difference putting a better clock in the ZP90.

Hey Kendrick, I'm your neighbor in K'vegas and contemplating the W4S mod and or trying a squeeze box touch but the EA product may be the ticket either way. Interesting comment from Noogle regarding the NDAC as I am contemplating the purchase of the NDAC. Hopefully, someone in the know can enlighten...

The reality though is that it does make a difference. You have been discussing this very same subject with Allen and Simon at great length elsewhere, instead of drumming home your same old theory get down to a dealer and have a listen yourself. Nobody here is helped by you intentionally spreadding wrong information that simply doesn't apply in real life.

My regular unmodified Sonos ZP80 sounds noticeably inferior running into my NDX's DAC compared to the NDX streaming the same files from the same server. 

I actually also use the Sonos ethernet port to feed the NDX's ethernet port to avoid enabling the wireless on the NDX, so the transmission of the file even goes over the same part of the network and it still sounds different.

Richard

I made the comment because it's counter-intuitive to spend a lot of money and effort polishing up the ZP90's clock output when Naim's engineers have gone to great lengths to make sure this timing information is thrown away by the nDAC.  I'm sure there are many more productive areas of system performance to work on.

You wouldn't spend hours lovingly icing a birthday cake for me if you knew I was going to throw it in the bin the moment you gave it to me?

Hi Mackb3.   I can’t answer whether the Naim DAC will properly cleanup all audible jitter from Sonos because I lack first hand experience and do not yet own a Naim Dac.  Forum members in this posting and elsewhere do report hearing better sound with the Ndac when adding a high quality USB converter, re-clocker, or modified Sonos.  Totemphile is probably right: the better the bit stream to a DAC, even the Ndac, the better the SQ.   While the Naim Dac is exceptionally good in dealing with jitter, it can only do so much with very jittery sources source like Sonos.   Having said that, you may be perfectly happy without any modifications to Sonos or SB, which by the way, is said to be less jittery. 

One reason I mentioned the Synchro-Mesh Re-clocker from Empirical Audio is that the source device (Sonos, SB, etc.) does not have to be modified, which can be better for warranty issues and re-sale value.  Just a thought.

As regards 'the better the bit stream the better the SQ', digital systems don't behave in a linear manner;  they tend to work or they don't.  If the nDAC's sync light is lit, it's using its internal clock and ignoring the SPDIF clock.  Also, the amount of jitter in proportion to the overall width of the SPDIF waveform is tiny, so the Sonos' output jitter won't provide any problems for the nDAC.