The 2012 F1 Championship thread.

Posted by: Tony Lockhart on 30 November 2011

Well, once Christmas is out of the way and we've all broken our resolutions, some of us will be counting the days til the first race. Will Bahrain be peaceful enough? Will Austin Tx have sorted itself out?

How many teams will decide they can't compete against Red Bull and concentrate on developing 2013's turbo 1.6 litre V6 engine?

Are there any rule changes for next year worth knowing about?

Tony
Posted on: 26 November 2012 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by fatcat:
 ....the breaking zone....

It sure was.

Posted on: 27 November 2012 by totemphile
Originally Posted by fatcat:
Originally Posted by BigH47:
Originally Posted by totemphile:
Originally Posted by BigH47:
Originally Posted by totemphile:
Originally Posted by BigH47:

...Vettlel takes out Senna...

More like Senna takes out everyone around him...

Not this time.

Biggie, you might wanna use that rewind button on your remote again or clean your glasses... It's clear cut, clearer than crystal clear....

What Senna on the inside line and Vettel OVERTAKING and cuts across , where was Senna gonna go vertically?

+1 for using the rewind button.

 

Seb wasn't overtaking Senna, he was 3 car lengths ahead of Senna entering the breaking zone. Senna came into the bend far to hot and collided with Seb, who was taking the racing line.

Well, having seen the incident from an entirely different angle now, it doesn't look so clear cut anymore. But then again I don't know enough about racing to be sure either way. If you looked at the footage up on the BBC site (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20488239), Senna did have the inside line and Vettel did turn towards him. But equally he was ahead and I guess you could argue that Senna still had some space to the left and since Vettel was fighting for the championship, with Senna being ranked 16th, it would have been fair manners to move over or drive less aggressively and let him pass. Maybe he was just too quick there and then though to do that. Equally you could argue Vettel should have seen him and taken a wider line, even if it had meant losing a place. It's racing, I don't think any of it was intentional from either one of them. At end of the day I don't really care, I am not a Vettel fan, just glad Alonso didn't win it, don't find him very likable, that's all... 

Posted on: 28 November 2012 by JamieWednesday

Hmmm...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638

Posted on: 28 November 2012 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by JamieWednesday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAEq1VycYRA

 

Unless this is faked, I think he's screwed.

Posted on: 28 November 2012 by BigH47

Whilst not being an Alonso fan , it will be great to see if the FIA have the balls to take Vettel's 3rd championship away. If there wasn't enough evidence of bad driving the YouTube videos(if genuine) certainly look like he overtook under yellow.

Fine at least 20 seconds, result Alonso champ by 3 points. 

That should wipe the smirk of CH's face.

 

Saying that the FIA have a great record of not seeing errors by German world champions.

Posted on: 28 November 2012 by Tony Lockhart
Here you go Howard:

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by fatcat

I wouldn't get too exited. If the pit lane exit is in the transition from yellow to green, it's common sense that the green zone starts at the pit lane exit.

 

Just think about it. It would be chaos if cars on the track couldn't overtake the slow cars emerging from the pit lane,

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by Derry

The Autosport website says FIA is to take no action as there was a green flag waved from a marshal post prior to the overtake...

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by rodwsmith

It would do Ferrari, Alonso and F1 no end of harm image/reputation-wise if this was to come to pass I think.

 

http://sniffpetrol.com/2012/11...challenge-christmas/

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by totemphile

Bad losers, that's all that comes to mind. Talk about cheating, first they move Massa back a few places through some pathetic and obvious wrangling, so that Alosno moves up the starting grid, and now they moan about some yellow flags that played no relevance at all. I think someone should have punished Ferrari for that blatantly obvious move pre start.

 

Anyways, F1 has become way too slick and conformative to be of any real interest at all, no real characters left in that sport, all softy, softy, nice, nice. Mind you, someone could upset the sponsors, now we wouldn't want that, would we?

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by Tony Lockhart
Really???
Posted on: 29 November 2012 by totemphile

Yep, boring. All IMHO of course. You may differ, so do thousands around world, that's fine...

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by winkyincanada

*

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by totemphile:

 

 

Anyways, F1 has become way too slick and conformative to be of any real interest at all, no real characters left in that sport, all softy, softy, nice, nice. Mind you, someone could upset the sponsors, now we wouldn't want that, would we?

I like F1 as a demonstration of excellence in driving skill, race tactics, engineering and management. The closer the drivers, cars and teams get to perfection, the less room there is for emotion and the presence of "characters" influencing decisions. I don't care at all for interviews or insight into the "personalities" involved. It is only a distraction. You win F1 by working hard, and by being professional and competent above all else. That's as it should be and is what makes it special. Boring? Not to me, but I understand why it may be to others.

 

You want characters? Watch something where goof-balls and characters can succeed by being lucky.

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by Bruce Woodhouse
Originally Posted by Tony Lockhart:
Really???


I watched the last race of the season. All the ingredients for excitement; so much at stake, rain coming and going, British challengers etc... and I wandered away after a while and never bothered to see the end.

 

I used to be a fan, then a casual watcher, now I'm bored with the entire fandango. I don't think I'm alone, and if I'm honest I'm not sure what would get me interested again. It feels like a sponsor and media circus not a sport now. I'm never engaged or sweaty-palmed watching it. The season goes on too long, too many of the tracks are dull and the DRS system is a daft artifice to make up for the failings of the rules (and tracks) to create genuinely open racing. The tyre situation is another contrivance.

 

I've a good friend who has worked in F1 for many years and now has a fairly good job at one of the teams. He doesn't watch all the races....go figure!

 

Bruce

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by Bruce Woodhouse:
 The season goes on too long, too many of the tracks are dull and the DRS system is a daft artifice to make up for the failings of the rules (and tracks) to create genuinely open racing. The tyre situation is another contrivance.

 

Bruce

It is interesting that the money flows into F1 exclusively as a result of marketing. Every dollar comes from a consumer of advertised products and services. They are heavily incentivised to create the best possible spectacle and excitement. Yet you would contend that their efforts in this regard make it less interesting, even boring. Are they getting it 100% wrong? What would you do if you were in charge?

 

BTW, I agree that the contrived rules (DRS (aero should be completely uncontrolled by rules IMO - flexy wings, moveable surfaces, ground effect - the works), silly noses, little wings, diffuser restrictions, controlled tyres, no refueling etc) aren't great. But my interest derives from the demonstration of excellence on behalf of engineers, drivers and crews, not from close racing or overtaking (you can get that in touring cars). The contrived rules are directed towards creating things I don't care about.

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by Tony Lockhart
Nicely put Winky.

And some need to remember that F1 has been sponsored since the late 60s, and very professional since at least the late 70s.

If you're tired of F1, it's not a problem. Perhaps you're tired of motorsport altogether? The motorbikes bore the poo out of me. And some of the competitors!

Tony
Posted on: 29 November 2012 by Cbr600

I wonder how many F1 bored viewers have actually been to a live F1 race and experienced live action?

 

Certainly makes for a better appreciation of the sport

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by Bruce Woodhouse

Well argued Winky. I am not sure the corporate/sponsorship is the whole deal, although I do find it more overwhelming in F1 than most other sports.

 

I guess when I watch sport I tend to be excited by physical skills and a sense of indivudual or team triumph with a human face. 

 

F1 now is by won by men with laptops and wind tunnels. It feels utterly remote from me in a way that watching people cycling around a track or whacking a cricket ball does not. F1 feels more like a show than a competition, and cutting edge engineering does not do it for me as a watcher.

 

I am sure Bernie has gained worldwide fans for F1 but has he not lost some of his traditional audience?

 

Bruce

 

Ps As for seeing it live, well I have never been to a bike race, or an international rugby match either. With the prices charged for tickets, and the geographical issues I am not likely to see an F1 race any time soon. I suspect only a small percentage of the TV audience have been to a race.

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by totemphile
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:

I like F1 as a demonstration of excellence in driving skill, race tactics, engineering and management.

Fair enough.

 

Originally Posted by winkyincanada:

The closer the drivers, cars and teams get to perfection, the less room there is for emotion and the presence of "characters" influencing decisions...

 

You want characters? Watch something where goof-balls and characters can succeed by being lucky.I

I don't agree. I preferred the heated battles between Senna and Prost, Mansell, etc. Even when Schumacher came on the scene. He may have come across as an arrogant git but there was real tension in the air... Not much left these days. I have no interest in F1 any longer... not watching it.

 

Horses for courses... no big deal.

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by Cbr600
Originally Posted by totemphile:
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:

I like F1 as a demonstration of excellence in driving skill, race tactics, engineering and management.

Fair enough.

 

Originally Posted by winkyincanada:

The closer the drivers, cars and teams get to perfection, the less room there is for emotion and the presence of "characters" influencing decisions...

 

You want characters? Watch something where goof-balls and characters can succeed by being lucky.I

I don't agree. I preferred the heated battles between Senna and Prost, Mansell, etc. Even when Schumacher came on the scene. He may have come across as an arrogant git but there was real tension in the air... Not much left these days. I have no interest in F1 any longer... not watching it.

 

Horses for courses... no big deal.

That's the benefit of modern tv's. turn over to a different channel

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by fatcat
Originally Posted by Cbr600:
 
 

That's the benefit of modern tv's. turn over to a different channel

I record it to a Virgin+ box.

 

I view as follows.

Pre race chat x32 speed

Start x1 speed

Lap 10 on x6 speed (if something happens rewind and possibly watch in slow motion)

5 laps to go x1 speed

Posted on: 29 November 2012 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by fatcat:
Originally Posted by Cbr600:
 
 

That's the benefit of modern tv's. turn over to a different channel

I record it to a Virgin+ box.

 

I view as follows.

Pre race chat x32 speed

Start x1 speed

Lap 10 on x6 speed (if something happens rewind and possibly watch in slow motion)

5 laps to go x1 speed

That's my strategy, more-or-less.