Post your experience on Reissue Vinyl quality!

Good thread Kuma.  And interesting to me because I'm probably on record here more than once for voicing some scepticism towards current vinyl issue; nice and thick, but sometimes with indifferent QC and usually lacking something in the sound quality.  And just don't get me started on Mofi half speeds...

However, there are some that do meet and even exceed expectations, and I'm hoping this thread will eek out some more; Top marks must go to Classic Records for what must be one of the great re-issue programs, namely the RCA Living Stereo series.  I have most all of them and also have many of the US originals in various forms - shaded dog, white dog, various press plants and cuts.  I also have the CD issues and some of the hybrid SACDs as well.  All I can say is that in my view the Classic issues in most cases take the top spot.  I know some who lament anything done without tubes have criticised them for lacking the warmth and romance of the originals, but really, unless you're dmaned lucky to have not only a good quiet example, but also one that has remained unplayed all these yeras, you're better of with the Classic reissue.  And the dynamics of the Classics are much better.  The bottom end is unlike anything I've heard on LP.  The Pressings are immaculate (well done RTI).  My only concern is with the 200g issues, where I think something went a little awry.  They sound like the 180g issues when you have a record clamp on the T/T.  Let me say here, I generally don't like record weights/clamps... Yes, they're still lovely, but maybe 180g is the ideal weight...??

If you want to know what I'm writing about then get a copy of LSC1817 - Munch conducting the BSO and playing some Offenbach pieces. Or LSC2449 - Gibson conducting the ROHO and playing the Faust and Carmen suites.  Or, indeed, many others that would do just as well.  Fabulous, immortal performances captured in sound quality that in most respects remains as a high watermark reference.  Classic Records manage to do it justice.

Remarkably, despite having most of the Classical issues, I have to say I have not a single popular/rock Classic Record LP in my collection.  Something I hope to put right soon, if I can find any...

Interesting thread, but I just checked the prices for Classic Records from my dealer here in Canada, and it's very disconcerting. Single albums range from $59.99 to $89.99 in price, which makes purchasing them out of the question. It's very depressing when you can't easily afford these better recordings. So I'm afraid the best I can aspire to is original type pressings in good quality condition. I guess I'll just have to come back as a wealthier person in my next life.

Dave

Dave, 

When originally released the Classic Records LPs were going for £20 in the UK. It's only since CR folded that the price of these 'deleted' albums have soared. Supply and demand I guess. I believe Acoustic Sounds bought Classic Records and probably have the best selection available. Check their website.

Steve

Thanks Steve. I didn't realize they were no longer in production. Being on disability, with my wife about to retire, I have to find value for money. I appreciate the info.

Dave

I first started buying the Classic RCA reissues from Vinyl Demand and Vivante in the UK back in the mid to late '90s.  As Steve says, I think they ranged from around £20 -25.  Then, after both hit hard times and disappeared, I noticed that Elusive Disc in the US was deleting their older 180g Classic stock and many were going for around $12 a piece so I bought as many as I could.  At that price they were an absolute steal. The Alto Klavier EMI re-issues were also stunning and cheap too, even with the import tax.  I didn't know that prices had gone up so much of late but imagine Stateside must be the best place to look these days.

Richard,

Thank you for this endorsement. I do want to know what you are writing about and have just ordered the LSC1817 along with the Dvorak Cello Concerto. RCA Living Stereo on Classic, and very much looking forward to their arrival.

Cheers

David

David, is the Dvorak the Piatigorsky/Munch?  If so, it was one of my very first classical LP purchases.  Back then I was mainly buying second-hand LPs as a kind of education. I didn't know much about classical - I had a good collection of rock/pop/folk etc - but LPs were relatively cheap and I liked them, so I started collecting.  It helped that I had a very fine dealer close by who started to put stuff by for me rather than see it wing its way overseas.  So many were selling off their collections then and many of the best Deccas, EMIs, RCAs etc.. were being snapped up by buyers in Japan, Korea etc..  Anyway, he had an early UK Decca pressed issue of the Piatigorsky Dvorak, with I think Walton on the flipside.  I recall it being a lovely recital but the sound quality was not up to the usual Decca standard. Other RCAs pressed by Decca were stunning, particularly the ones recorded by Decca themselves but issed under the RCA brand.  That was when I was told that while Decca would send very fine copy masters to RCA in the US, RCA would send Decca pretty much whatever was lying about at the time; You might get a decent copy master, or you might get the bootleg the cleaner ran off during a tea break.  Certainly the US white dog copy I have is much better, but the Classic is best of all.  Oh, and the Starker on Mercury is stunning, if you can find it...

Steve, KOB = Kind Of Blue

Those Classic records reissues were truly wonderful, but just too expensive for me most of the time. I also have a couple of the first Alto reissues - the "Monteux Conducts Ravel and Debussy" which is one of my favourites and the Albeniz, Suite Espanola and the Grieg Piano Concerto. All are very good and excellent interpretations as you'd expect, although the opening notes of the piano concerto do seem to compress a little - whether that's the system or the record I simply don't know but the rest of the concerto is sublime - and they were half decent prices (£20 - £25 when new).

The Klavier reissue of Saint Saens Organ Symphony is pretty good too - I forget who's on it, but if you need to know let me know and I'll find out for you.

The Reiner RCA Living Stereo reissues are all very good though I originally found the reissue of Sheherazade a bit rushed by comparison with a mint original, but sonically it is very good indeed and I have grown to enjoy it for what it is. My other Reiner reissues are also excellent.

I'm really surprised at Steve's experience with the Sundazed albums because a friend bought a whole bunch (about a dozen) and every one I've heard has been really very fine.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Frank, the Saint-Saens 3rd on Klavier is the EMI recording of Fremaux conducting the CBSO with Christopher Robinson.  The original on EMI Studio Two was always something of a dem piece with pretty spectacular sound.  The Klavier offers better surfaces but no real improvement on the original. In fact the EMI Greensleeves reissue may just eclipse them all.   Another spectacular, also originally on EMI Studio Two (with the same line-up) and also reissued on Klavier was Massenet's Le Cid.  Again, the original is fantastic, the Klavier is cleaner but probably no better, and the Greensleeves reissue maybe a tad better yet.  The one to avoid here is the Q4 TWO issue.  I guess EMI was still experimenting with cutting Quadraphonic and it shows with this issue.  The later Stereophonic/Quadraphonic pressings were much more successful.

The good news is that the Greensleeves issues are often found in mint condition for a few pounds each.  Well worth snapping up for not just fabulous performances but stunning sound too.

Richard,

Yes I think so. Its the Charles Munch/Gregor Platigorsky BSO, LSC 2490. I still don't know much about classical and this is such an adventure for me. I have been asking and getting lots of help on the Beethoven Chailly thread, and just started a thread on the Decca Sound Box Set which has  introduced me to lots of new composers. But we shouldn't divert too much on here from Kuma's excellent thread. Richard if you are happy to share more on recordings perhaps the Decca Sound Box thread would be a good place to go?.....

Kuma,

Having said that,  I have just taken delivery of the Paavo Jarvi Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen Beethoven Symphony 1 to 9 Impex LP Box Set.

Its lovely, thanks for the head's up.

Best 

click

Frank,

Forgive me KOB just didn't click. The album is very good. I was a little worried as I received it with the Adderley and Coltrane 45's but it stood up very well. I have to say the change in 'speed' is noticeable ( it was noticed that a tape was running at the wrong speed during the recording session but not until after release) and somehow gives the record a more mellow mood. I do prefer this mono issue to the late 60's CBS stereo version I have.

One thing I do find with CR releases is that the vinyl is not as silent as some. Quite often it appears to be worse at the beginning and near the end of the side being played. 

ATB

Steve

Kuma

I spent a lot of time in 2011 searching out the very best re-issues I could find of records I love. One thing which helped me considerably was Michael Fremer's vinyl review site. Maddeningly it is not exhaustive, but I have found the reviews to be very reliable, and a great starting point in research.

The address is: http://musicangle.com/

These are some LPs I bought in 2011 which are simply outstanding:

Van Morrison: Astral Weeks

Warner R1 1768 Vinyl LP Remastered by Steve Hoffman/Kevin Gray at AcousTech.

Release date: 2009

                                        _______________________

Van Morrison: Moondance

Warner R1 1835 Vinyl LP Remastered by Steve Hoffman/Kevin Gray at AcousTech.

Release date: 2008

Both these Van Morrison LPs I have had copies of since the mid 70s and know them well. These are both revelatory and I can't recommend them highly enough. Sound, packaging all exemplary. Moondance comes in the original gatefold, both are heavy card.

                                                      ____________________

Rickie Lee Jones: Rickie Lee Jones

Warner RHI1 306108 Vinyl LP Remastered by Steve Hoffman/Kevin Gray at AcousTech.

Release date: 2008

Lots of versions of this record available of course. I used to have the Nimbus Supercut which was the rave copy to have for years. This beats it into a cocked hat.

                                                    _________________________

Mahavishnu Orchestra: Inner Mounting Flame

Columbia/Speakers Corner 31067 Vinyl LP Remastered by Maarten de Boer at UMG Berliner

Release date: 2009

Incendiary record from 1971. Get this one.

Most of these are fully reviewed on the Fremer site above if you want 'gory detail'

                                                ____________________________

Also a mention on the Classic Records debate in the thread above:

I have been fed up for ages with substandard Led Zep records. Never been able to afford/find clean 1st pressings and have plenty of early re-presses which still were thin and poor. Co-incidentally I have found 2nd/3rd pressings of Yes LPs to be terrific in comparison. So I did bite the bullet and get Zep III, IV, Physical Graffiti, and Song Remains on Classic Records. They were expensive as they are deleted now. But brilliant.

And Classic Records for The Who titles are fabulous also (see Fremer for more, 'orrible (!!!!) detail. Especially - My Generation,Tommy, Who's Next, Quadrophenia, and Who By Numbers. I have clean 1st presses of the last two and the Classics are genuinely a bit better. Avoid Sell-Out on Classic.

Best stop before I get carried away, and severely modified.

Regards

click

> About to try some John Fahey reissues on 4 Men With Beards

Variable I'm afraid - I have some really good and don't know why they bothered releases on 4 Men With Beards - I'm referring to the quality of the sound; not the music which is Fairport Convention. The poor one is What We Did On Our Holidays, it is not awful: it is just a great album like that deserves better. Liege and Leif sounds fine. Sandy by Sandy Denny on Vinyl Lovers is great (not just because it has a place in my top 5 albums ever recorded, but because the SQ is so good too). 

Good luck with the John Fahey - not an artists I know, but I hope it is good, 

Kuma,

Sorry for the delay in responding. Like Richard, I generally like the Classic reissues. I have almost all of the RCA and Mercury classical reissues and a lot of the jazz. Even though Acoustic Sounds bought Classic, a lot of stock is still available on Classic's captive site, TheMusic dot com, at reasonable prices. As to pressing quality, most of mine have been fine except for one off center Tommy. I agree with click that The Who reissues are very good, especially, My Generation, Tommy and Quadrophenia.

I also like Speakers Corner, both classical and jazz, Testament and Pure Pleasure.

In the past year, may be two years, I have liked the Dylan Mono box set and the Rolling Stones early box set. The sound quality of the Rolling Stones box is not always perfect (a little polite) but clean originals would cost a fortune and the Beggars Banquet is really quite good. I have the Astral Weeks click likes but haven't listened to it yet.

Steve,

I have not heard the particular record you mention. I don't doubt some of them are good but I have been burned enough to stay away.

An example, and Kuma you can have a listen, at my dealer last week was the Acoustic Sounds Sam Cooke Nightbeat, a stone cold soul classic. The Acoustic Sounds copy sounded like one of those Harry Potter dementors had sucked all the soul out of it. And we were comparing it with a 1980s reissues, not even the original!

Simply Vinyl and most other reissues I steer clear of. It's mostly better to try to find originals.

The new issues on vinyl now are quite good and I find money is better spent there (Jenny Lewis, SMiLe, etc.).

Best,

Jay

Like many others, I've had varied experiences with reissues. I started buying them about 10 years ago, often tempted by a combination of glowing reviews and the expense or unavailability of original pressings. More often than not, I've found them unsatisfactory. In online discussions, the dilemma is often presented as "first pressing vs. audiophile reissue," but this is an oversimplification. First pressings vary wildly in price, and there's often a range of later pressings available. In most cases, there's a cost/quality sweet spot where you'll usually find something better than a reissue.

The bad

One of the first reissues I bought was Simply Vinyl's reissue of Five Leaves Left by Nick Drake. The packaging was just beautiful, and I went on to buy the SV Bryter Layter and Pink Moon. It slowly dawned on me that, despite the superficially clean sound, they were just boring to listen to. I've since tracked down second pressings of FLL and BL, and both are vastly better. Yes, they cost more than the reissue, but way less than a high quality first pressing. It may be unfair, but I now associate Simply Vinyl with all that's bad (sonically) about reissues, and won't touch them with a barge pole.

The good

One standout is the Classic Records reissue of Rimsky Korsakov's Antar Symphony (Utah/Abravanel), originally on Vanguard. This was the first reissues I bought where I was struck by the quality.

I also have CR's 2001 reissue of Kind of Blue, on 200 gram Quiex vinyl, with the speed-corrected side A. To my ears, the sound is excellent: big, rich, clear, natural. I've never heard an original six-eye, but the CR reissue is vastly better than my no-account 1980s pressing. As others have commented, the pitch correction isn't audible per se (after all, Miles signed off on it), rather, it makes the music a bit warmer and more blue.

Overall, I've had far more disappointment than delight with reissues. In my to-be-listened-to stack are recent reissues of The Shape of Jazz to Come (I'm optimistic about that) and the 180g Rumours (not so optimistic). My strategy now is to investigate the availability and cost of the first pressings on a well known auction site. If first pressings are out of reach, I'll look at second pressings, of which there are often several generations. For example, in the jazz realm, I've found second pressings on Verve to be excellent value: way less than the first pressings, and often of superb quality. Researching, bidding on and buying old Blue Notes has been a hobby in itself. The "detective" aspect of tracking down records in this way is part of the fun.

Most reissues I've bought have clearly been the work of dedicated specialists. My feeling is that the raw materials they're working with – master tapes that are up to half a century old – are very compromised, and not likely to produce first class sound. It's interesting to consider that a vinyl pressing is often far more durable than the tape it came from, even when the latter has been in a climate controlled vault for most of its life.

I have not heard the particular record you mention. I don't doubt some of them are good but I have been burned enough to stay away.

An example, and Kuma you can have a listen, at my dealer last week was the Acoustic Sounds Sam Cooke Nightbeat, a stone cold soul classic. The Acoustic Sounds copy sounded like one of those Harry Potter dementors had sucked all the soul out of it. And we were comparing it with a 1980s reissues, not even the original!

Simply Vinyl and most other reissues I steer clear of. It's mostly better to try to find originals.

Hi Jay,

The Sam Cooke LP you mention isn't  Acoustec mastered and this might account for the difference. I totally agree with you about Simply Vinyl issues, about the worst reissues out there.

Steve

Guido

thanks for the tip off regarding 4 Men With Beards reissues.  They are just about to do a Fahey box rissue - but I was going to try a solo LP first to see how they meausured up.

Looking at your taste, I'd recommend you give John Fahey a try.  American guitarist writing his own material but rooted in blues and American blues history.  Started his own record label back in 1959, Takoma, and was responsible for bringing Leo Kottke to wider attention by releasing his first LP.  Fascinating character, brilliant and influential player.

The current batch of Takoma CD reissues have been nicely remastered with extra, informative sleeve notes.  'Railroad' from the early 80's is great, as well as the 'Blind Joe Death' albums from the early 60's.

Best of luck.

Thanks Frank.

I guess I'd stick to my Classic Reissue.

I sort of ODed on the KOB. Went through so many CD reissues then got the Classics 200g reissue.

Sounds fabulous but then I haven't compared to any other vinyl. The instruments have so much more colour than any of the CD versions and the first time that brush work on the drums doesn't sound like a noise any more.

Steve,

Did you forget the Keel?

This isn't it?
I see it's got a pretty high score from Fremer.

I've got a few Simply Vinyl Reissues. I'm gonna pull them out and see how they are. If I recall, the poorest one ( which means did not beat the original ) was the Jeff Beck releases and others weren't too bad. ( Like Arrested DEvelopment and Leftfield ) but then I only have CDs.

Which Simply Vinyl albums do you find lacklustre?

Kuma,

Yes I have the Keel, have upgraded so much this year that I forgot one of the most important elements.

I have a couple of Nick Drake LPs on Simply Vinyl. They are quite a few years old now. I bought them together, played them and then decided I'd wasted my money. Haven't bought another one since.

Currently listening to KOB on CR. It's so smooth. It cost me $49 from the USA but is worth every penny.

ATB

Steve

Richard,

I just looked at the current pricing on the Classic Living stereo reissue. Good God. Some of them are going for 500$!
I haven't bought many Classic RCA reissues but I have bought a few on XRCDs. ( LIke Reiner ones )
Just about the only record I might pony up is Reiner's Lt. Kije but if I could find the original issue, probably won't bother with it. ( I already have it on CD  which sounds pretty good to me already )

I've noticed that with two Classic Reissues I have on Who's 'Who are You'. Thinner version sounds better even the arm height was adjusted for the thickness.
Since I don't own too many 200g records, the arm height is dialed in for thinner records. I just can't be arsed to adjust the VTA every time the record thickness varies. So I suffer a little with thick records but so be it.

I might try the Gibson/Faust just for the great jacket cover.

I don't know much of Classic's Rock reissue aside from Led Zepplin II ( so so ) and David Crosby ( Great! ) as they don't carry a kind of music I listen to. I see that the LZ II is now going for 250$. That's just nuts for the quality you get.

I'd think UK original pressings have got to be better than any of reissues on UK artist releases.

Kuma,

the Classic Reiner Lt. Kije is great - his Song of The Nightingale on the other side is something of a legend too.  If you find the Chesky reissue (CR10 I think) then don't hesitate to get that either.  It's fascinating to compare the two - both superb, the Chesky a little sweeter, the Classic with a touch more bite to it.

The Gibson Faust/Carmen suites is one of my favourite classical LPs.  A truly superb Decca recording too.  I don't have an original of this one (they're rare and hugely expensive these days) to compare, but who cares, this is as good as it gets.

Crikey, $500 for a reissue!! which maniac is asking that much??? 

That's Great mr.click.

I am not surprised those records sounding great. They are the same folks from Cisco ( Impex Label )

I await for your proper review. ( surely you can say something other than 'lovely' )

I still have a stack of Beethoven Symphonies to get through yet. FWIW, my relatively modern *go-to* set for the Beethoven Cycles is by Günter Wand ( the ones from the mid 80s performance ).