Playback of Naim library on computer?

Aysil,

I suspect the reason you see all the tracks listed as "Unknown Album" is because there is no metadata contained in the actual music file itself for WMP or iTunes to read. When you rip a CD with a Naim server solution it doesn't put any metadata into the actual file (so that other music clients can read it), rather it creates an XML file that the Naim solution references so that you get a consistent and presumably well performing solution with respect to tags and artwork. Great with an all Naim solution, no so great for portability.

I guess for this to work on your computer you would need a Naim client that could read the metadata file? I don't have a Naim server solution but I suspect this is the issue, may be others have found a way? 

You can play the music from:

Network>NSHDXxxxx>Music Share>MQ>Album>song

Not as slick as a custom interface but I've found WMP sharing quite flaky.  The NAIM desktop client will allow you to play the music from the Hi Fi system, but not from your computer

Jack,

I think your explanation of lack of metadata is correct. I wonder then how non-Naim servers like Asset or even WMP (when used as server) can read and index the data from Naim library correctly, but no media player can do it.

sktn77a,

Yes, your suggestion seems the only way right now. Let's see; maybe, I will find a UPnP client software for PC and have a more convenient interface.

J RIVER MEDIA CENTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jack,

If the HDX rips to a NAS things could potentially work differently?

Curious,

Patrick

Patrick,

Whether HDX rips to internal drive or NAS should not make a difference, because they would be exactly identical files (the only difference being on internal drive as read-only)

Jack,

I am currently testing to find out how different servers handle Naim library metadata information (out of curiosity, because Naim rips come naturally with a Naim server anyway). I will report back.

I am also trying some media players with UPnP client (renderer) functionality, if this could be a solution to the question in the original post - using this client for local playback on pc from the Naim server. Let's see...

I know, broken record....  But J River?

Jack,

You are right. No media player or non-Naim server is able to index Naim library properly. Asset, Foobar, iTunes, WMP, JRiver, and Twonky collects all tracks under Unknown Album by Unknown artist. eLyric recognized album names but no artists or cover art.   However, this seems to be an issue not limited to Naim libraries; different servers seemed to show varying levels of difficulty indexing downloads from different sources. In fact, Naim server proved to be more successful in indexing foreign libraries and showed itself as a good server solution.

Jan-Erik,

I tried eLyric; it is only a UPnP server, so no help for my specific question.

Patrick,

JRiver was about to be a complete solution for the task, because it has a UPnP controller, UPnP renderer (for local playback) as well as possibility to connect to different servers other than its own server. So I could have connected to HDX server and control local playback from Naim library. The only problem was that, it refused to connect to HDX server with the message "The selected DLNA server returned no files when using the search function (DLNA server search support is required by Media Center)." Foobar was the only media player that could connect to HDX server, but it does not play the files from external servers locally.

So, the solution I could find was to run JRiver as UPnP renderer, and use a UPnP control point (like Kinsky) to playback from Naim server. It is certainly an overkill to run two software for the task in my original post, but it works. Maybe, sktn77a's suggestion is more practical.

Aysil,

Same type of solution as the J River renderer but Asset also have a desktop renderer "Control" maybe worth a try although no more functionality than J River

Jack,

Thank you for recommendation. I had tried Asset Control, but it is not a fully developed program, the developer had quit the project in favour of other projects. It is actually meant to be only a control point, it does not incorporate a "renderer". JRiver incorporates all three components of UPnP streaming: server, control point and renderer (client). I wish its server could be customised  to index Naim library or it could connect to Naim server!

Sorry Aysil...yes you are correct it's only the control point, forgot that. I guess there are not many options really. 

I was looking for a method of listening to Naim rips directly on the computer. Because of reasons explained by Jack in the second post, most mediaplayers are not able to sort out the data.

I've found an almost perfect solution for the question: MediaMonkey. Its own server is compatible with Naim library, sorting out the metadata including coverart, and it can playback both locally on the computer and stream to an external client. It can also connect to Naim server (and other servers on the network), functioning as a control point, but this is not necessary. It is the only non-Naim server I have come come across which is capable of dealing with Naim library. It works only on Windows; no Mac version. Does any body know a similar Naim-capable media player for Mac?

Here is a summary of some other UPnP capable mediaplayers/servers in this respect:

MediaPlayers with Server:

Twonky Manager: Its own server cannot sort Naim-library; but it can connect to Naim server in order to control stream of Naim-library to external devices, but cannot playback locally when connected to Naim library.

Foobar with UPnP extension: Its own server cannot sort Naim-library; but it can connect to Naim server in order to control stream to external devices, but cannot playback locally when connected to external server.

Jriver: Best UI. Its own server cannot sort Naim-library; It can connect to external servers and control stream to external devices and/or playback locally. Unfortunately it can connect to all servers, but not to Naim server with a message "this server does not support search function."

XBMC: Its own server cannot sort Naim-library; It should connect to external servers and control stream to external devices and playback locally. However, I experienced serious stability problems, so I cannot rate this media player.

WMP 11: Its own server cannot sort Naim-library; no control point function for external servers or devices.

iTunes: It cannot sort Naim-library for local playback; no UPnP server or control function.

Servers:

Naim-Server: It is fully Naim library compatible (!); but because Naim does not release it independently, you can not install it on your computer. It comes pre-installed in Naim ripping server devices. It is very successful sorting non-Naim music files, as well.

Asset: It is not Naim-library compatible.

eLyric: It is not Naim-library compatible.

I am using this on my development (Windows) PC upstairs–but NOT as a UPnP / DLNA server, rather as a streaming player. Let the Naim server offer up the library via UPnP, using J. River strictly as a UPnP player.

J. River uses Plutinosoft's Platinum UPnP libraries and is unique in its ability to reliably function as a renderer, control point, server or (renderer + control point = ) player.

Does this make sense?

David,

This doesn't make sense to me!

JRiver function as server, as control point, as renderer(client), or as any combination of this three.

However, if there is a Naim server on the network, JRiver cannot connect to Naim server for some strange reason although it can connect to any other server, and other media players can connect to Naim server. I think they should address this issue. I posted on JRiver forum weeks ago but no replies.

Alternatively, it would be nice if JRiver's own server could recognize at least Naim library folder structure (artist/album/trackno-trackname) as MediaMonkey can. There are a lot of customization options for the folder structure of folders to be created, but not for folders to be read.

I think if they could address these issues, many Naim customers would love to use it. Currently, it can function as a good control point for Naim stream clients only if the rips/downloads are not Naim origin.

My understanding and situation is the same as Simon's, though I start from a far less knowledgeable position.  

By way of example, I have no idea what Dave's most recent post (above) means.  This is not intended as a criticism of Dave, rather as an illustration of the fact that I am interested in playing music but have little understanding of computer streaming technical terminology.

Yours most interestedly and ignorantly,

FT

A renderer simply converts (to linear PCM) and plays what it is told to by the control point, where you can queue up playlists or individual tracks. An example would be an iPad running PlugPlayer (control point) which sends data to a streaming player (e.g., Xbox).

A player combines the control and renderer function in one, e.g., UnitiQute using the remote control handset.

A server can offer up files and/or playlists to be played elsewhere on the network.

J.River works fine here with a UnitiServe-SSD, among other things....

Interesting! JRiver does not work fine here with a HDX, among other things...

Simon, what would prevent you from using Naim rips on other systems as long as they can connect to Naim server?

How does it not work?  What isn't working?

It may be as simple as ticking a box in MC settings somewhere.

I assume you are running ALL of the DLNA services?

-p

Aysil, 

Glad you had some success with MM. I have never used cue sheets but I wonder if a tool that could create a standard cue sheet from the Naim XML file would help or am I missing something?