Best router for NDX, US and apple products

Posted by: LarsDK on 17 December 2011

would really appreciate your help on this one.

my homenetwork has become incredibly slow after adding ndx, us, synology backup nas, 2 iphones, 2 ipads etc. music streaming, facetime and browsing freezes/slows often. Am using standard router from dsl bb provider and want to replace w best solution. unfortunately my home does not make wired connection for ndx and us possible, so router would need to cater for music streaming.

i find the router space to be quite a jungle - does anyone have a similar setup and a router that does a great job?

thx lars
Posted on: 17 December 2011 by KRM
Hi Lars,

Get an ethernet switch, plug it into the router and plug your NDX and NAD into the switch. It takes your music off the main network.

Keith
Posted on: 17 December 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Lars, yes use wired Ethernet for your Naim network player, US and NAS with a switch connecting them  (not a router). Having too many devices  on your wireless network will cause problems with throughput.
Simon
Posted on: 17 December 2011 by rich46

this is a far better upgrade than any over priced audio cable i use a £16 netgeearsawitch and two cat 6   0.5  metre cables from maplins between the 5s and a ripnas and find ithe system is secure..

 

also in process in powering the nds5 with the new power supply

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by garyi

As mentioned get a gigabit switch. And if I were you get double the amount of ports you think you will need.

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by Tog

+1 for the gigabit switch

 

Tog

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by Massimo Bertola

ATL!

(Another Thing Learned).

Good Sunday to All,

M.

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by badlyread

A bit of clarification here please gents....

 

Set-up:

SuperUniti wired to router. Mac Mini (music server/ripper) close to SU but wireless (2 cables taking the long route to the router - Apple Extreme - would be too much). So can put an ethernet cable from the SU and another from the Mini into a switch (close to the units) and then connect to the router via a long ethernet cable run? And this is stop the drop outs I am getting with 96/24 files? 

 

Many thanks

 

Neil

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by Aron

I'm confused too. 

 

Is it not good wiring NDX and us to a router because my NDX and us is wired directly to my Apple extreme. 

 

Aron

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by LarsDK
thank you for the clear guidance ie no router will do a sufficiently good job. i always follow your super advice and have great results with it.

i have one physical constraint namely that my dsl wall socket is in a different room than hifi and i cannot put a cable between the the two rooms. so would really appreciate if you guide me on below understanding of what to do

1. dsl wall socket room:
a. add best router for apple products, reviews suggest airport extreme base station, to dsl modem
b. setup new wifi network using base station

2. hifi room:
a. connect ndx, us, nas to ethernet gigaswitch via short cat 5, 6, or 7 cables
b. as i have not seen any switches that have buildin wifi, connect airport extreme to one of ethernet ports in switch
c. setup airport extreme to connect to new wifi network by connecting macbook to switch via cable

is this the approach and setup to best secure 1. fast and reliable music streaming and 2. get best support for multiple apple products connected at the same time? this would for instance mean that us connects to the internet via wifi - will it still be able to retrieve album info when ripping in this setup?

thanks again
lars
Posted on: 18 December 2011 by garyi

The gigiabit switch has to be connected to the extreme with an ethernet cable. You say the two cannot, find a way to make it happen. Unless your walls are made of solid steel it should be possible to do.

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by Reality

Are people finding "Ethernet over mains" too noisy still?

Perhaps it would be ideal for situations like this, just to hop back to the router?

For those with a dedicated spur, it may be better though?

Anyone tried it?

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by Bart
Originally Posted by Reality:

Are people finding "Ethernet over mains" too noisy still?

Perhaps it would be ideal for situations like this, just to hop back to the router?

For those with a dedicated spur, it may be better though?

Anyone tried it?

Plenty written about that here, and the answer is, "You won't know until you try it in your own home."  It works for some, is too noisy for others. 

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by Reality
Originally Posted by Bart:
Originally Posted by Reality:

Are people finding "Ethernet over mains" too noisy still?

Perhaps it would be ideal for situations like this, just to hop back to the router?

For those with a dedicated spur, it may be better though?

Anyone tried it?

Plenty written about that here, and the answer is, "You won't know until you try it in your own home."  It works for some, is too noisy for others. 

Yes, I was wondering if perhaps this had changed with the latest generation of devices.

Also, whether it was negligible when using a dedicated spur, even when a problem if used on the same ring, etc?

 

Also, some of the newer devices now have Wifi as well as Ethernet. I wonder if there are any whereby the Ethernet part may be switched off, using just the Wifi between the two plugs, similar to how one may switch off the Wifi side of a normal domestic Broadband router.

Or perhaps there may even be a type available offering *just* a Wifi AP, running from and powered between the two "plug-sized" devices.

I *think* I may have seen such a beast out in the wild, at some time?

This would offer the convenience of a "self-contained" plug sized device, providing a simple Wifi hop between rooms. Given that this would, potentially be providing connectivity solely between, for example, a listening room switch and the BB router, only web traffic would be passing over it. The "music" side of the network would remain within the switch controlled  environment.

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by badlyread

Apple Airport Express? 

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by Reality
Originally Posted by badlyread:

Apple Airport Express? 

Does an Apple Airport Express have Wifi bridge capabilities, rather than AP mode, enabling one to take the existing Ethernet from a Switch and bridge it over Wifi, to the existing home Broadband Wifi capable router (assuming the BB router has bridging mode and that no-one else wants to be able to use it in the normal AP mode?)

 

The type of device I was attempting to describe would offer a simple "plug" to pop into the wall socket, connecting it via an Ethernet cable to the switch. Out by the home BB router, one would plug in the other "plug" and, again, connect it via an Ethernet cable to the BB home router.

This way, the home routers functionality remains, for other wireless clients.

Also, only traffic destined for the Internet side would traverse the wireless link. The networked hifi components would remain connected via wired Ethernet. It may solve the OP's problem of not being able to run Ethernet between the rooms?

It's just a though....

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by garyi

It will do all that and be totally unreliable making the purchases of the switch pointless.

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by LarsDK
have now changed my setup based on above outline after picking up airport extreme, gigaswitch and bunch of cat 6 cables (already had airport extreme)

it totally works - all album music streaming is wired using the switch, ndx+us+nas connects to internet via switch and connected airport express which connects to home wifi network setup on airport extreme that connects to dsl modem. thus only wireless streaming is radio and album info when ripping. nserve works faster now from iphones and ipads.

sonically have not had time to test, but based on eg simons postings am hopefull..

many thanks for help - maybe setup is usefull for others that do not want to wire the full household.

lars
Posted on: 18 December 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Lars, good luck, as Gary implies, your reliability should be better now
Wifi is great, but not for lots of applications sharing it and sending large files, you can't beat wired switched Ethernet. Leave wifi to web browsing and control points.. Streaming and media files to wired switched Ethernet.
Posted on: 18 December 2011 by badlyread

Hi Simn

 

Could you clarify something for me please.

 

I have the system outlined above. If I purchase a switch and connect both the Mini and SU into the box which is connected by a long run of cable to the Extreme I will have a more reliable 'system' with less drop out of hi-res files?

 

Many thanks

 

Neil

Posted on: 18 December 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Neil

Absolutely. The media data will be switched between the mac mini and the SU and no data will need to pass back to the router. That's the Beaty of a switch it allows the data tio pass only on the required segments and no where else.
Therefore your router could be very busy etc, and your switch is seamlessly letting the data go between the Mini and the SU with no network dropouts.
Simon
Posted on: 18 December 2011 by badlyread
Brilliant Simon, many thanks. Can you recommend a good one? Was looking at a Netgear 5 port. Neil
Posted on: 18 December 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Yep, netgear are a good reliable make. Although not needed for your Naim kit some around here recommend Gigabit switches, as opposed to FasEthernet ones. If you can get Gigabit Netgear at a good price go for it.
I also recommend the green types, that reduce voltage on smaller network segments  to save power and electrical noise.
Simon
Posted on: 18 December 2011 by badlyread

Green tech T-Link one ordered at a silly price. Will let you know how I go. 

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Neil

Posted on: 23 December 2011 by Rico

yep, switched wired networking is faster than wireless.

 

One thing to note with wifi; if you're access point is up to dealing with multiple devices, often a slow-down is a case of one of the wireless items being from the previous standard.  eg, if you're running Wireless-N on your WAP and most devices, adding a Wireless-G device can really screw things up.

 

HTH

Posted on: 23 December 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Rico It is 803.11n wireless that downgrades to use standard size time slots if it senses other standards using the slots which reduces the throughput of the 803.11n connection. Otherwise 803.11n uses expanded slots which are not backwards compatible.
They key thing with wifi and Powerline adapters is that they are single collision domains which unlike switched wired Ethernet means only one device can use that part of the network at a time and the busier the network gets the more significantly the throughput is reduced due to frame collision avoidance. For duplex switched  wired Ethernet no such limitation exists which is important for streaming.
Simon