set up MacMini as streamer

Posted by: Iver van de Zand on 15 January 2012

Dear All,

As outlined in other threads, I am thinking of replacing my Squeezebox Touch and North Star Essensio combo into either the ND5XS or a MacMini with an nDac. Consideration of either one of them depends on sound quality, balance towards my current system and - not the least - the comfort of using Apps to scroll through my music. Furthermore, the update needs to be future proof since I plan to use it at least 3 years. Other future (2012) updates might be an XP5XS. I am extremely happy with my current Nac 152XS, NAP 150X, FlatCap XS and the marvellous Epos Epic 5's, so these remain as solid base of my system. In the meantime I have a lot of fun with Jim Smith's book 'Better Sound'. I am now preparing as short insight of my findings of the book and will put it in a seperate thread shortly.

Regarding the option of MacMini/nDac, I have a number of questions. I have seen that especially Guido is a great fan of it, and his feedback in various threads triggered me. All my music is in ALAC, some of it High-Res. I rip and administer my music with iTunes. So,here I go:

1.) am I correct the Optical Out of the latest MacMini is superior to the USB output (would also save me from buying a HighFace or similar)

2.) in some threads it is stated that it is important to have a MacMini with a SSD disk. Is this superior to a regular HDD ? Why is that so ... because of less spinning things in the computer ? If not, does it make any difference to buy a 5400rpm HDD or a 7200 rpm HDD ?

3.) All my music is in ALAC on a QNAP 239 NAS (will stay there) . If I use iTunes on the MacMini to stream the music, do I need any seperate UpnP software on the NAS ? My guess is No, correct ?

4.) Does BitPerfect add substantially to iTunes in terms of sound quality and user comfort ?

5.) the standard MacMini comes with 4gb Ram. Is it worthwile to buy a 8gb version (note: the sole use of the MacMini will be streaming

6.) thricky one: is the streaming quality of the MacMini a good qualitative partner to the rest of my system ? Bear in mind I plan to invest in a decent Tosslink/Coax connect

7.) I purchased quite some music from HDTRacks. Amongst it is 24/96 Hi-Res but also 24/196. Is the MacMini / iTunes combo capable of playing 24/196 ALAC ?

8.) currently I use iTunes on a Windows 7 laptop to rip and administer my music. Can I easily re-use this library of the MacMini or do I need to re-create it ?

9.) as an iPad user, I am a big fan of Remote. To my opinion it outperforms iPeng which I now use to control the SqueezeBox. Do you guys have any insight in Apple's future plans with Remote ? Will there be new features etc ?

Again, the MacMini/nDac route is one option, the ND5 is the other which also makes a lot of sense to me. Personally I believe that both options leave me the room for future updates or even "coming together".

Cheers, Iver

Posted on: 18 January 2012 by spartacus

No problem Iver. Please keep in mind that the recent update of the Mac Mini does not have a DVD drive so you will need to sort one out (not very expensive) if you want to be able to just load a CD and the system rips it automatically with error correction and in the file format of your choice (this is how I have mine set up). See computer audiophile or iLounge for setup of iTunes to do this when you are ready.

Also I would recommend a wired network connection to the Mac Mini.

Posted on: 18 January 2012 by Briz Vegas

I also use a Mac but have a different setup into my nDAC. USB hard drive- a seagate. I started with a WD but it developed issues 12 months in. I use a USB drive because I use a FireWire interface. MacBook pro 4gb. I play from memory and using hog mode. It makes a big difference. If I start a listening session thinking " this does not sound right" it's either that Hog mode switched off or I have forgotten to remove the wedge I put under myDACs sortcones. I use Puremusic and it is better than iTunes and Amarra into the nDAC. I took my DAC to a mates house once and he insisted on using Amarra on his Mac mini. It was ok but I finally got him to change it to Puremusic (which he did not like with his Weiss DAC). "Oh, it does sound better" was his comment after 20 seconds. From MacBook to DAC I use a hifi USB cable I got second hand, forget the brand, Weiss int202, then Nordost digital interconnect. This will deliver 24 bit 192khz. I use the Weiss power supply but found it can be bettered. Power cords to the int202 in my setup, while logic made me think they would be minor, actually turned out to be a deal breaker. The guy that lent me his Nordost cable described it as a dramatic improvement. My nDac also uses a Nordost power cable, I would imagine you would get similar results with the Naim equivalent although how critical it will be will depend on your mains (its essential at my place despite the dedicated line in my wall. It made less impact on my mates Mac mini setup 5 suburbs away but was still significant ) Given the cost of the interface and cables it is obviously a more expensive path to take than a simple optical cable. While I have tried USB sticks and found it lacking vs the Weiss I did not try optical. The USB stick was said to be superior to optical in all the comparisons i read at the time and I found the Weiss to be better than the USB stick. (wouldn't it be hilarious if the one solution I have not tried killed my $$$ solution. Mind you I have only been improving the INT202. It's now dramatically better than when it bettered USB) Long story but the fully loaded Mac solution ( no SSD however) has shown me that the nDAC is an amazing source, and that like many good sources it will show up everything downstream loud and clear. If my power strip comes off it's isolating feet I can hear that something is wrong as the sound loses definition and dynamics. The problem is heard long before the cats handiwork has become apparent - the system is that finely tuned. This is in a non Naim system - Conrad Johnson pre/power and B&W 804s. Only the nDAC is Naim.

Posted on: 18 January 2012 by Tog

Latest Mac Mini works very well with the latest TVs and you can use Plex as act as a media server for films. @patrick - Plex is also easily installed on Vortexbox if that helps. Tog

Posted on: 19 January 2012 by Stefan Vogt

As a Mac user, this topic has interested me to use a MacMini myself for music!

I would feed the optical signal straight into my (future) Superuniti, right? Two queries:

a) why do some of you store the music on a NAS (accessed by the MacMini), rather than on the MacMini itsself? Surely the latter is possible and more simple? (And if one wanted to also use the MacMini for streaming, there is various software available, e.g. elyrics).

b) I could use my MacBookPro CD-drive for ripping (using iTunes), and then copy the music to the MacMini. But Naim say their ripping solutions (e.g., uniti serve) are superior to a standard laptop/PC/Mac drive, so I thought I best wait until naim coes up with a fully SSD-based uniti serve. Have you convinced yourselves that ripping on a Mac (MacBookPro or CD-drive attached to MacMini) is good?

Greetings,

Stefan

Posted on: 19 January 2012 by Briz Vegas

A. Bigger storage and the spinning drive is not onboard B. I have found iTunes ok, others say I should use dbpoweramp but that is a windows program. I have used it to rip HDCD into 24 bit format, with 20 bits as encoded in HDCD recordings, this sounds better than the iTunes 16 bit rip. Other have said that 24 bit coded 16 bit recordings sound better (8 blank bits ) but I have not tried this.

Posted on: 19 January 2012 by Guido Fawkes

> But Naim say their ripping solutions (e.g., uniti serve) are superior to a standard laptop/PC/Mac drive

No they don't .... at least they didn't when I asked.

A rip is a rip with the exception of dBPowerAmp and HDCDs.

Ripping with a MacBook will give the same bit perfect PCM data as ripping with a UnitiServe

(the only difference is in the metadata and with damaged disks)

If somebody has told you differently then I am afraid they are wrong.

Posted on: 19 January 2012 by hego99

I agree with Guido that different rippers give the same result

(exceptions: metadata, damaged discs, specialformats/HDCD)

But it has been said that ripping makes a difference:

"Ripping CDs is easy. Ripping them as best as possible is another thing entirely."

https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...44#13111295358115544

Posted on: 19 January 2012 by MediaMatt

Originally Posted by Stefan Vogt:

Two queries:

a) why do some of you store the music on a NAS (accessed by the MacMini), rather than on the MacMini itsself? And if one wanted to also use the MacMini for streaming, there is various software available, e.g. elyrics.

b) I could use my MacBookPro CD-drive for ripping (using iTunes), and then copy the music to the MacMini. Have you convinced yourselves that ripping on a Mac (MacBookPro or CD-drive attached to MacMini) is good?

Stefan,

A. iTunes runs quite happily with its music library on a separate NAS drive. It's simple to setup and, like Briz said, it keeps the extra noise of a HDD away from the hi-fi. Unless you want to enter a world of pain, don't contemplate using the MacMini as a UPnP server. A MacMini running iTunes connected via optical to a SuperUniti will give you plenty of musical enjoyment, plus you get AirPlay to stream you music to other parts of your house should you wish.

B. A few years ago I compared the rips of a badly scratched CD via iTunes, Max & XLD. Max did an excellent repair job on the CD, whereas iTunes left a audible 'splat' where the scratch was. As a consequence I've always ripped any 2nd hand CD's via Max. However, new & clean CD's get ripped by iTunes and everything sounds fine.

Best,

Matthew

Posted on: 19 January 2012 by pcstockton

Originally Posted by Guido Fawkes:

A rip is a rip with the exception of dBPowerAmp and HDCDs.

.....and iTunes with pregap data/hidden tracks.

-p

Posted on: 19 January 2012 by james n

Originally Posted by MediaMatt:

Originally Posted by Stefan Vogt:

Two queries:

Stefan,

Best,

Matthew

Stefan - i'd concur with what Matthew states above - its the solution i use to feed my NDX but via UPnP. It's really not a world of pain - in fact its very easy on the Mac. UPnP servers, either Majestic or Playback, integrate with iTunes and will serve up your library to your future Superuniti without any problem.

James

Posted on: 19 January 2012 by glevethan

Originally Posted by Guido Fawkes:

> But Naim say their ripping solutions (e.g., uniti serve) are superior to a standard laptop/PC/Mac drive

No they don't .... at least they didn't when I asked.

A rip is a rip with the exception of dBPowerAmp and HDCDs.

Ripping with a MacBook will give the same bit perfect PCM data as ripping with a UnitiServe

(the only difference is in the metadata and with damaged disks)

If somebody has told you differently then I am afraid they are wrong.

Then I guess you were not around when Naim released their first digital product - the HDX. Back then they claimed to have developed a proprietary ripping solution that was better than all other products on the market (including the, then at the time, reference standard EAC). There were many a heated debate about this claim. I am glad to see that the "party line" has now changed and people realize that early claim as the fantasy that it then was.

Gregg

Posted on: 19 January 2012 by winkyincanada

Originally Posted by MediaMatt:

Unless you want to enter a world of pain, don't contemplate using the MacMini as a UPnP server.

Seconded.

UPnP is least descriptive acronym I can think of. It is a nightmare of incompatibility, clunky interfaces and a program called (unbelievably but strangely descriptively) "Twonky". Says it all.

Posted on: 19 January 2012 by badlyread

I have no problems using uPnP with my Mac Mini. Playback is very good indeed.

Neil

Posted on: 19 January 2012 by Tog

Never had a problem with UPnP - but you do need decent server software and (as it has previously been pointed out) OSX is not over endowed with decent UPnP software. Not sure I would buy a SuperUniti just to use it with a MacMini when UPnP would be even more straightforward. MacMini into dac / pre makes more sense. Tog

Posted on: 20 January 2012 by pcstockton

Originally Posted by winkyincanada:

UPnP is least descriptive acronym I can think of. It is a nightmare of incompatibility, clunky interfaces and a program called (unbelievably but strangely descriptively) "Twonky". Says it all.

ONLY for you Mac-only boys. Sorry, but it works wonderfully on a PC. I am so happy that I am not blindly and firmly entrenched in one camp or the other.

Posted on: 20 January 2012 by Tog

Not Mac only so much as Windows free. Linux has plenty of decent UPnP software - why gum up an innocent PC with 25 years of legacy code, device drivers and dodgy Windows software :-) Tog

Posted on: 20 January 2012 by Guido Fawkes

Originally Posted by pcstockton:

I am so happy that I am not blindly and firmly entrenched in one camp or the other.

Are you Mac or are you Linux? I am all three including Amiga.
Don't know of any other camps.

As Mr Costello said when ask if his name was derived from the other Elvis. What other Elvis?

UPnP works fine on a Vortexbox - no windows required (hmm there has got to be an album in there somewhere).

Posted on: 20 January 2012 by pcstockton

Obtusinators unite!!! I should have said "MacOS-only boys".

As far as I am concerned, if you are running Linux it is no longer a "Mac".

I wont even take the bait on your bitching about Windows. Go read your own posts in that read about about how much LionOS sucks and how every new MacOS has bugs.

I have had an equal LACK of issues with my windows machines as you have with you Macs. They both work well for us.

The bummer for you is that MacOS cant do everything Windows can. So you have to constantly complain about something you dont even use. While I sit back knowing I can't do what I need to on a Mac and leave it at that.

Why am i even posting this!!!!!!!!!! It is so f-ing annoying. On both sides I am sure. It just always seems to be a one way street.

Windows people cant use a Mac but would be willing to if they could run the software they need.

Mac people never seem to simply enjoy their machine without reference to how much they depise windows.

It just works.... my ass.

-Patrick

PS - it is sexy hardware though.

Posted on: 20 January 2012 by pcstockton

Originally Posted by Guido Fawkes:

Are you Mac or are you Linux? I am all three including Amiga.
Don't know of any other camps.

You weren't being genuine with your question but I will respond anyhow.

I will use anything. I dont care who makes it or what name is on it. I only require that I be able to use all of the software I want/need. If I could do that on a Mac I would probably still have one.

As far as I know to be able to run J River and EAC et al, I need a windows PC.

If I was OK with running iTunes and never using my computer for work, I would have no problems with using a Mac. Unfortunately I can't, so i don't.

Cheers!

Patrick

Posted on: 21 January 2012 by Tog

So you didn't take the bait then Patrick :-) Tog

Posted on: 21 January 2012 by Guido Fawkes

> The bummer for you is that MacOS cant do everything Windows can.

Why do I want viruses?

I know Windows is great at running malware, but personally I'm happy to live without it?

Yes it would be nice to run dBPowerAmp, but if I can't, I can't

However, I've no problem with anybody running Windows if they want to and I'm glad you like your system.

As you know there are reasons, for my dislike of the Redmond Ragamuffins.

All the best, Guy

Posted on: 23 January 2012 by pcstockton

Originally Posted by Tog:

So you didn't take the bait then Patrick :-) Tog

Just a nibble. I tried to keep myself from getting moderated (again).

Posted on: 23 January 2012 by NickSeattle

Installed a new i5 Mac Mini in the system yesterday. FireWire out to my trusty M-Audio DAC doesn't sound bad at all - livelier than my CD5X/FC2X, which can be good or not, depending on the material. Strangely, I enjoy the Mac louder than the CD5X, despite the shrillness (glare?) of the former. I still think the Naim CD sounds better overall; but both sources have their strengths.

Comparing iTunes bare vs with PureMusic and BitPerfect. PM won't let me use a remote library. BP is totally painless. I haven't had time to give it reasonable attention, so no verdicts to render yet.

Enjoying "Nilsson Schmilsson", Mike Doughty's "Haughty Melodic", Hugh Laurie "Let Them Talk", Silencers "A Blues For Buddah".

nDAC is still on indefinite ETA. Cannot wait!

Nick

Posted on: 24 January 2012 by KenRose

guys, I'm extremely new to computer music and have searched and still don't know what to do so sorry in advance for my very elementary question.

If I buy a unitiqute, how do I run itunes to it. Will it do this through wifi, or should I be connecting something like a mac mini to the unitiqute?

Posted on: 24 January 2012 by Devon

Originally Posted by KenRose:

guys, I'm extremely new to computer music and have searched and still don't know what to do so sorry in advance for my very elementary question.

If I buy a unitiqute, how do I run itunes to it. Will it do this through wifi, or should I be connecting something like a mac mini to the unitiqute?

I would just get an airport express connected to the unitiqute by mini toslink cable. Then you can run iTunes through wifi.