set up MacMini as streamer

It wasn't the tenure of your Windows experience I was referring to as hyperbole.  It was that you seemed to imply it has been 25 year of hell.  As though every day was filled with blue screens, crashes and lost "homework".  Since XP have you had any significant problems?

I totally hear you on the "fun little project" side of things.  I typically don't enjoy fooling around with computers in my free time, but vis-a-vis audio replay I have had fun over the last decade dialing it all in and realizing the power of a media player based solution.

To clarify, i have NOTHING against Macs and the MacOS.  They simply don't do what I need regarding audio and I prefer the windows interface.  It is just my personal preference.  It is exactly the same as my love for the iOS and their relevant devices.  I dont dig the Android interface but I would use/buy one if it solved major issues.  I am lucky I dont find (m)any with iOS.

There seem to be too many required work-arounds, compromises and caveats with using a MacOS for audio needs, especially when streaming is desired.  No FLAC, few media player options, no decent UPNP support, iTunes is deplorable (in my estimation, for my needs), difficulty using PCI solutions (in that most Macs cant use them), cant set-up multiple servers, cant stream different music to different zones etc.

This is why most discussions around here talking about various NAS's UPNP servers, USB-to-Digi converters, Twonky whatnot, ALAC/AIFF support, tagging (or not) WAV files, lack of Airplay in Naim, etc, are typically centered around Mac users.  Not always but usually.

I just believe in using the best tool for the job.  Unfortunately for audio streaming, amongst other things, this is not a MacOS machine.  Even if Naim implemented Airplay support, how are you going to deal with hires audio?

If I was an exclusively Mac household, and wanted to play in this game, I would buy a PC.  If I wanted to control things with an smartphone I would get an iPhone.

Cheers to you!

Patrick

Lastly, the above only brings into account audio.  When you try to start streaming video the Mac-world gets even more difficult.  I cant tell you how many video converters I have tried, demoed, purchased and mothballed.  All to try to give some video to a friend who only uses an iTunes/Apple TV arrangement.

Every heavy video user I know who is Mac-tacular has VLC installed for this exact reason.  And none of them are streaming anything anywhere.

I will shut up now.

Patrick

Somehow I doubt it will be the last

All,

I would like to approach this whole 'streaming' issues from a slightly different focus. I am a long time Mac Man, I started with an Apple Mac II and have been there ever since. I currently have a music system setup that gives me everything I need with one exception - I will come on to that a little later, first the system:

Mac Mini using iTunes the centre of the system.

All music ripped to NAS drive in Apple Lossles Format.

Speakers connected directly to the Mac Mini in Main room (weakest part of system).

Three other rooms connected via Airport Expresses each with amp and speakers (used only for ambient listening when doing other things around the house).

Apple Remote, playlists (by mood) and iPhone/iPad used to control everything.

The exception - a quality listening experience in the main room.

My question: What would you suggest as the best single/dual box addition to provide a high quality listening expereince in the main room and yet retain the functionality of the rest of the system?

I read of people using simply an nDAC or a UQ or a SU directly connected to the Mac Mini via a quality Optical Link Cable as providing just that.

If the soul focus was sound quality for bucks (as everything is in place - with perhaps the addition of better speakers) what would you recommend?

Chris

A Mac Man

What kind of amplifier (and speakers) do you have in your main room?

(I don't quite understand your "speakers connected directly to the Mac Mini".)

At the moment I only have a set of Computer Speakers connected directly to the 3.5mm jack plug socket of the MacMini (just testing the set up).

I will be looking to purchase the Naim box(es) and Speakers at the same time. So I will need either a single Naim box solution with integrated amplification or a multi box Dac/Amp solution. I guess.

The Supernait comes to mind.  Awesome integrated. 

It was the first Naim piece that I heard.  It solely made me research the brand, come in here, talk to anyone who knew about it, and eventually cull together my system.

When I heard it at a dealer (there to buy some XLRs for some denon monoblocks), i almost broke my neck turning towards the music.  It sounded like nothing I had ever heard in hifi before.  And that was from across the room not even really paying attention.  It was hooked up to a set of monstrous Proac towers and fronted by a Simaudio Moon CDP (i think).  It wasn't even music I am into.

But it was LIVE!  Electric.  Energetic.

Anyway....  it has a decent internal DAC for hooking up to your Mac or Airport/ATV.  It will drive any speakers.  Upgradeable with power supplies.

For great speakers on budget I would look at Rega.  Good synergy with Naim.

Good luck!

Patrick

Patrick,

The Supernait solution is exactly where my thinking is at this time. I have a demo lined up next week. A one box (in addition to the MacMini) suits my requirements too.

Thanks for the speaker options too, always useful to have a pointer...

Chris... [off to do even more research!]

Chris 

For the little extra the SuperUniti will offer you internet radio, a better DAC and the ability to stream if this later takes your fancy. Set up both for a demo.

Regards

Neil

Also a Mac Man (5200 starting point however)

or..... if you desire a CDP, check out the Uniti.  Although you wont (most likely) be using the UPNP functions (for now) in the Uniti or Superuniti.

This absolutely seems to be my dilema. Pay a little more and gain additional functionality, some of which I may not need (uPnP streaming) or stick with a more purist approach.

The Uniti series of boxes certainly appeals. It was a Qute that got me hooked in the first place. I had a demo and this started me off playing with my options.

A year later I am still contemplating. I spent some time exploring the option of hard wiring, but I have at least now ruled this out as doesn't fit in with my requirements. Also wireless technologies seem to be progressing pretty quickly.

Chris

If getting a Qute make sure it is one with the upgraded sampling board so you can stream ALAC (if you later desire).

I started with a Qute. It is a fantastic piece of kit and I was very contented. Then the ALAC upgrade became available for the Qute. I was offered a great deal on an exchange for a new SU. Big smiles. Control, finesse and power. I have reached my end.

Neil

Guido told early in this thread that Mini's optical output is good enough. Have you guys compared the optical output of Mac with good USB to S/PDIF -converters? In PC-world, integrated optical/coaxial outputs are far worse than a good USB-solution. There are clear differences in sound quality between the USB-solutions also. The first generation MuFi V-Link wasn't very good. Also the HiFace got bettered by Audio GD in my own comparisons. My converters have been cheap compared to some offerings on the market - like Audiophileo or Stello - which have been praised a lot. 

Here's an observation of possible interest:

My (bare) nDAC arrived yesterday.  My Naim dealer furnished me with a recommended no-name mini-Tos to Tos cable which looks to be of high quality with convenient dust-caps on tethers at both ends.  I connected the new Mac Mini to optical input #1 on the DAC and began to experiment.  Barely 24 hours in, it sounds pretty good; better generally than the old M-Audio Firewire Audiophile DAC, as it should be.  (I will insert the M-Audio between the Mac and the DAC later, to see if it still adds value.  I also want to obtain one of Guy's favorite optical cables to compare.) 

I used the Audio Midi Setup utility to set the buit-in output to 96KHz and directed the Sound System Preference to the digital line out. 

Here's the observation:  When I play AIFF and ALAC CD rips, the HD light remains on on the DAC, persumably due to the output settings, rather than the file spec, which is 16/44.  Next, I enabled BitPerfect and set it not to upsample: the HD indicator goes off, except when I play similar ALAC and AIFF music from a shared iTunes library on a different box on the network. Presumably, BitPerfect only affects the music in the native library, not shared ones.   ?   I think the native files at the lower sampling rate sound slightly better:  better PRaT, slightly less "smearing".  This is the opposite of what I heard last time I demoed the DAC with my old NAC 112.

While the nDAC-Mac combo is already pretty impressive-sounding, it is still bedding in, and I have different options/settings yet to try.  At the moment, the CD5X/FC2X still betters it; better, deeper bass, and more articulation between the instruments.  Maybe my nDAC has power-supply envy. 

Still, overall I am pleased with day-one with the nDAC, and am optimistic about what lies in store as I learn to use it better.

As usual, I am sharing impressions based on what would be charitably described as "drive-by" analysis.  You get what you get . . .  

Nick

I seriously doubt that it can match a good USB to S/PDIF -converter. Optical transfer is the worst out of the options (Coaxial, AES/EBU, BNC, optical) and it still only is a basic computer audio output. There's some serious research work and hours gone to the better USB to S/PDIF -converters to eliminate jitter and other bad stuff from the signal. There are of course other things than jitter affecting the digital signal.

Here's some interesting reading about digital transports and S/PDIF in general:

http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATO...D_transport_DIY.html

Interesting reading, thanx!

I totally agree with Guy, in that is more meaningful to start with a low Jitter/noise source to begin with that try to add conversions/"jitter-rejections" etc later.

Well it seems that we both lack experience to fully comment on the subject. I guess you haven't used any better converters than V-Link and I haven't heard Mac Mini optical output. I have compared integrated solutions (but mostly in PC world though) to a bunch of external USB to S/PDIF converters. None of the integrated solutions have come even close a good USB to S/PDIF converter. I've used professional internal sound cards such as ESI Juli@ and M-audio Audiophile 192 with optical and coaxial outputs. They couldn't compete with the external solutions. I used to own Musical Fidelity V-Link. It's the worst external converter I've used and clearly lost to Audio GD and M2Tech HiFace. Just muffled, veiled and not very exciting sound. Nowadays the technology has gone even further with the new XMOS chip on some of the converters. I'm eager to try out Stello U3 or Anedio U2 which utilize the chip. Also I'd like to try out Musical Fidelity's next generation of converters, V-Link II and 192. Prices aren't that high ($200-400), after all we're talking about a transport which can be compared to a CD-player used as a transport. 

So in my experience, USB to S/PDIF converters are far better than any integrated digital output. USB is the way to transfer the digital signal. Digital streaming is another world then. In my situation I'm better off with an external converter and PC/Mac running as a server.

It's great that you're happy with Mac Mini. One less component to upgrade all the time.

This is pretty much impossible with PC/Mac running as server. That's why we need jitter elimination.

It may just be that my optical cable ($40) is not as good as a Supernova 6 (~$120), but inserting the M-Audio FireWire box is worthwhile versus the optical cable I have.  Bass drum-thump is more believable and impressive on tracks like "Walking After Midnight" by Madeleine Peyroux, and "Battle of Jericho" by Hugh Laurie.  

The FireWire cable came in the box from M-Audio, SPDIF cable is RCA>RCA Audioquest VDM-XR I had handy.

The M-Audio box does require a driver, and you need to use its application to control the box, which would disqualify it for many because this is not "family friendly".  Still, once it is set up, I think you can ignore all that. 

Nick