Crunch Time

Posted by: shing on 21 January 2012

Hi there,

 

I would like to tap everyone opinion on my thoughts. I am in the market for a naim network client (uPnP client).

 

After some serious auditioning, these are my 2 final choices.

 

1. NAS ==> uPnP == > NDX ==> Naim DAC  == > Pre Amp and

2. NAS ==> HDX == > Pre Amp

 

Both sounds similar, therefore I would like opinions/comments on which route should I be taking. The best, which is the also the most financially taxing would be NAS ==> HDX ==> Naim Dac.

 

I am inclined to go with uPnP ==> NDX==> Naim Dac but a lot of fellow naims tells me NAS ==> HDX would be better (less hassle - its a all in one unit, add a Naim Dac later, add a power supply, uPnP server maintenance/trouble shooting is out of the window etc etc)

 

The way I look at this,

 

a) the network client hardware arena is still at its very infancy stage - why invest/buy top of the line equipment when in about 2-3 years, the equipment will be out of date?

 

b) If the network player does not live up to expectation, I ought to be able to buy a CDX2 and the Naim DAC will be be usable - let's hope I don't end up doing this

 

I have also auditioned the below :-

 

NAS ==> Uniti SSD ==> S/PDIF  ==> ND 5xs == > Pre Amp

NAS ==> Uniti SSD ==> S/PDIF  ==> NDX == > Pre Amp

NAS ==> HDX== > Pre Amp

 

The NAS ==> uPnP == > NDX ==> Naim DAC  == > Pre Amp and NAS ==> HDX == > Pre Amp came up tops.

 

I was quite surprised that the streaming of the files to the network clients (uPnP) sounded better than the S/PIDF connections.

 

Comments are most welcome.

 

regards

 

 

 

 

Posted on: 21 January 2012 by Bart

Do you already own a NAS filled with music, or a lot of lossless music files that you plan on moving to a NAS?

 

I did not, so opted for the uServe  1tb > nDAC route.  I can add a NAS to the system at any point.

Posted on: 22 January 2012 by Guido Fawkes

1. NAS ==> uPnP == > NDX ==> Naim DAC 


The DAC being the important bit. 


Mac Mini ==> Naim DAC + 555PS will sound more refined and more musical  


NAS ==> uPnP == > NDX ==> Naim DAC + 555PS if you can afford it will be every bit as good and all Naim. 


IMHO, it is from the DAC onwards that the real gains are to be had. So if funds are limited then go for the best DAC, followed by best pre, followed by best power amp, followed by best speakers - once you have that then the front end options come in to play, but differences are relatively small (if any) as long as you use a low jitter/low noise feed. 

Posted on: 22 January 2012 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Hi, just to build on Guido's comments. I agree the DAC/Powersupply is crucial, but not far behind is the network player (ie the NDX). The quality of the digital feed really does shine through ( dont let anyone try and convince you its just all about 1s and 0s, that is just conceptual abstractions that bears little to what is happening at the signal, electrical level, ie the aspects where the quality counts) This becomes more so if you have a good downstream system and 555PS on the DAC..

Therefore I would say in importance with regard to performance

dAC
Network player (ie NDX)
Rest of system and room
Upnp server

And finally
NAS

If the NAS is seperate from the upnp server, then I have yer to hear one have any impact on the performance of a system.

Simon
Posted on: 22 January 2012 by aysil

shing,

I did not hear the new macmini directly into nDAC option, which Guido is suggesting; but if he is so enthusiastic about it, I am sure it sounds pretty fantastic. However, your inquiry seems to be pointing more btw NDX vs. HDX. The choice depends, first of all, on how you want to rip and serve, and how much you are prepared to pay for the HDX' very neat ripping/server solution and its high quality dig-out. (Its internal dac is also very decent but not Naim's best.) Among all the many alternatives you mention in your post, I can confirm, imho, that HDX+nDAC(or other higher quality dac) is the best sounding choice.

Posted on: 22 January 2012 by aysil
Originally Posted by shing:
...

 

I was quite surprised that the streaming of the files to the network clients (uPnP) sounded better than the S/PIDF connections.

...

I think this is because S/PIDF inputs of NDX and ND5xs are tuned differently than their UPnP inputs, not because S/PIDF is inherently worse; otherwise S/PIDF would not have been used in their "upgrade paths".

Posted on: 22 January 2012 by rich46

power supplies external to the unit will always beneficial .the nd5xs is better with 5x power supply but only marginal.iam using this psu with the ndac makes a big difference and the nd5 dig output the performance is excellent.   i prefer that the dac uses its internal psu as well as the 5s psu.Discnnecting the internal psu to replace it with another  seems to me a waste of cash . Cyrus do the same using the internal and adding another.....  i tried many hard drives /powered and usb powered and i think they are the same.  usb sticks to me defeat the objective on selection etc..

 

simon is right about the important of hard drives. have little effect... till solid state ones become the norm.... .just to add make several back up hard drives stored safely and you have a secure system,  what is evident is ,that i do not play cds much now that all are ripped.

Posted on: 22 January 2012 by shing

NAS ==> uPnP == > NDX ==> Naim DAC  == > Pre Amp will be the choice then. I have a NAS filled with FLACs which I will enjoy once the “items” comes in. I am not partial to the macmini route as software like amarra, songbird etc etc does not have a remote control application for IPAD. REMOTING in via VNS is such a no-no for me – I would like a proper remote application created  for ipad.

 

Now, all I have to do is to figure out how playback and twonky server serves the album to the NDX, anyone has any ideas?

 

I know the NDX via their share drives will pick up the album art (jpeg files), which are placed is the same directory as the songs

 

Thanks for all your comments.

Posted on: 22 January 2012 by Guido Fawkes

> as software like amarra, songbird etc etc does not have a remote control application for IPAD

 

Fair enough, you have chosen a good route that meets your personal requirements and that is what everybody should do. 

 

[For the record, please could I say I would never recommend  amarra, songbird etc etc - my advocacy is for iTunes (you really don't need the other stuff), which when set up correctly gives a bit perfect stream - no idea if the others do the same, but if they don't then there is something wrong with them and if they do then what's the point of them - so for best reproduction from the new Mac Mini use iTunes, by all means with the excellent Bit Perfect to optimise it]. 

 

However, your chosen route is different and in my humble opinion should give excellent results with the potential to sound even better when you add the 555PS at a later stage if you ever feel the need. In my office system I stream from a Vortexbox (NAS optimised for serving music) to UQ and that gives astounding results. I have no doubt the NDX + the super Naim DAC has more resolving power than my UQ, as it clear demonstrates this in my main system.

 

Enjoy your  NDX + Nam DAC

 

All the best, Guy  

Posted on: 22 January 2012 by shing

thanks Guido and others who have "contributed" to my decision

Posted on: 23 January 2012 by Briz Vegas
Regarding Bitperfect software, I have found significant ( by that I mean worthwhile) differences between audio playing software on Mac based systems, Given that programs like Puremusic have a free trial I would suggest punters do their own comparison. In my experience Puremusic has a good synergy with my nDAC based system(for example). Critically, I have not done a comparison myself with Bitperfect, so it may be just as good, or it may not be as good, or it may be just different. I have heard many many stereos and every one sounds different so even just being different can matter. In short, simply saying "all you need is software X " is not useful when people can make up their own minds at home for free, well for 5 bucks if you include Bitperfect.
Posted on: 23 January 2012 by pcstockton

Guido,

 

How do you handle sample rate switching with iTunes?

 

-p

Posted on: 23 January 2012 by NickSeattle
Good question, Patrick.  I have left everything set to 96 lately.  Not ideal if one insists on native replay.  PureMusic says it up samples to order; BitPerfect doesn't exactly say.  I am still working this out.

Nick
Posted on: 23 January 2012 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Hi Nick, I would recommend where any software upsamples, I would ask the author about precision. Therefore if you are using 24 bit word samples then you need to ensure they at least use 32bit or preferably higher sample words in thier DSP algorithms. Yes it will require more processing power but it will reduce the arithmetic artefacts that are created with up sampling. As soon as you up or oversample you have changed the integrity of the original sample (ie using the phrase I don't like, it's not bit perfect anymore)
Simon