ripping SACD: best practice
Posted by: Iver van de Zand on 28 January 2012
Hi friends,
I bought two SACD discs from William Carter and Craig Hella Johnson. I ripped them directly (!) to ALAC using iTunes. What is strange to my opinion, is that iTunes shows bitrates in the range of 510 - 610 kbps on 16b/44.1khz, which is significantly lower than what I get when ripping a regular CD (avg bitrates of 850kbps - 1050 kbps). Is this normal ? I thought SACD was a superior format, so expected higher bitrates.
Just to be sure, I did the same ripping with dBPowerAmp, again directly into ALAC. Results exactly the same as when ripping with iTunes.
Is the above like it should be, or am I ripping in the wrong way ?
By the way: playing the ALAC's give good results. Everything seems to sound ok.
Tx, Iver
Posted on: 28 January 2012 by Aleg
Iver
What you are ripping is the redbook CD layer of the SACD, and that has nothing to do with the higher quality DSD layer. In a bad case it is even possible that the CD layer is a different mastering than the DSD. SACD cannot be ripped with ordinary devices.
So when ripping an SACD you're not benefitting from the higher quality DSD-layer SACD at all, unless .....
you take the only route for ripping the DSD layer of an SACD in existence, which is with a piece of software called sacd_ripper on a suitable old version of a Playstation PS3. And convert it from there with proper software to PCM format.
If you like to know more, give your contact email and I can refer you to more information about this.
-
Aleg
Posted on: 28 January 2012 by Iver van de Zand
Hi Aleg,
Thanks for this Aleg ! I alreday "feraed" the answer after some googling. I have over 15 SACD's so very much interested in some more detail if it is not to much of your time. My emailadres is n my profile.
Cheers,
Iver
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by Nick Rich
Have you added the HDCD DSP in DBPoweramp? I thought this was supposed to recognise a SACD and rip accordingly. Not tried it mind you.
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by tonym
It's not quite that simple unfortunately, HDCD's a different thing & the software will only rip the redbook layer of the disc. SACD players take the "Native" DSD output from the disc & convert it to PCM. There's no direct DSD output from the player (although SACD players can be modified internally to intercept the DSD stream)
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by Steve2701
Originally Posted by tonym:
It's not quite that simple unfortunately, HDCD's a different thing & the software will only rip the redbook layer of the disc. SACD players take the "Native" DSD output from the disc & convert it to PCM. There's no direct DSD output from the player (although SACD players can be modified internally to intercept the DSD stream)
If only we could find a way to teleport those bits to where we want them 
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by Iver van de Zand
I am studying the way suggested by Aleg, but it is not easy. I keep trying; for me it is already a kind of "hobby" to sort out.
In the meantime: when I "offer" the SACD to either DbPowerAmp or iTunes, both are perfectly willing to rip it. The output is ALAC's wit an avg bitrate of something between 510kbps and 610 kbps. Playing these files gives to my ears an acceptable quality. AM I correct: are these rips regular CD level ?
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by Steve2701
"AM I correct: are these rips regular CD level ?"
Correct.
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by Geoff P
I have a pretty decent SACD capable Disc player which I can play into my 552.
Just for fun I might try ripping the analog off the SACD Stereo layer using an A/D I have at 96/24 and see what it sounds like.
Watch this space.
Geoff
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by Eloise
Not sure if I am permitted to mention it here... But if you can get hold of an old PS3 (which plays SACD) and hasn't had its software updated to remove the "other OS"; there are ways to extract the DSD part of an SACD.
Eloise
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by Geoff P
Originally Posted by Eloise:
Not sure if I am permitted to mention it here... But if you can get hold of an old PS3 (which plays SACD) and hasn't had its software updated to remove the "other OS"; there are ways to extract the DSD part of an SACD.
Eloise
Yep.... but it is less than straightforward I gather even if you have the requisite PS3. That creates effectively an 'ISO' file of the RAW SACD data. You then have to use some other program to extract from this ISO as I understand it. One mentioned is Weiss Saracon but have no idea how it is run.
Regards
Geoff
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by Eloise
Originally Posted by Geoff P:
Originally Posted by Eloise:
Not sure if I am permitted to mention it here... But if you can get hold of an old PS3 (which plays SACD) and hasn't had its software updated to remove the "other OS"; there are ways to extract the DSD part of an SACD.
Yep.... but it is less than straightforward I gather even if you have the requisite PS3. That creates effectively an 'ISO' file of the RAW SACD data. You then have to use some other program to extract from this ISO as I understand it. One mentioned is Weiss Saracon but have no idea how it is run.
Hey I didn't say it was straight forward...
But (AFAIK) it's the only way to extract DSD from SACD to a computer without spending 5 figures...
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by Geoff P
Originally Posted by Eloise:
Hey I didn't say it was straight forward...
But (AFAIK) it's the only way to extract DSD from SACD to a computer without spending 5 figures...
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by Rob van den Brand
It's not that difficult i think. There are excellent tutorials on the net how to convert the extracted dsd files to pcm. First time is a bit of a pain, second or third time it becomes easy, so don't give up. I figured it out in an afternoon.
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by pcstockton
it is easy if you have the PS3.
Simply Google "PS3 SACD Ripping" and go to the Google Code site.
Cheers!
Patrick
Posted on: 07 February 2012 by Nagoya
I heard that getting the right PS3 is quite difficult now because you need one of the first or second generation machines. And its firmware mustn't be updated to far. Thanks!
Posted on: 10 February 2012 by Steven Shaw
I've got one of the first ps3's, but unfortunately it has been updated so won't rip the SACD's. I wonder if I get put back the old firmware/system somehow?
Posted on: 10 February 2012 by Aleg
Steven
Unfortunately it is not possible to revert to the required version once you're past the 3.55 version
-
Aleg
