New NDS Streamer

Thank you for posting this. It seems that the flow of products is never ending - 'we will continue to develop the range of streaming clients, DAC's and All-in-one products to meet what we believe will be high demand.' Can't afford an NDS but how much do people think it should cost? Thanks!

There, that didn't hurt did it?

I look forward to seeing it in the flesh and reading about it when Allen's bought one 

James

Great! So much for the NDX I have on order then :-(

wonder what the price tag will be...

Think of a price and add £8995...

I guess the head unit will be somewhere around the cost of the CDS3, assuming the two box S level paradigm continues. We'll know soon enough. I wonder if this means I can chop in the nDAC? Spose I'd better shuffle along to Bristol and find out.

Dont sweat.... It is just an NDX with a mandatory power supply that is still upgradeable by the nDAC.

Oh well, that's a relief then.

If it's pitched at the late lamented S level player and the streamers are supposed to mirror the CDP range I would expect the on board DAC to be beyond the nDAC and for the player to require a mandatory power supply. This could be old thinking. But my hope is the same as Allen's. It's fun to speculate but we'll know for sure soon enough.

UnitiServe + NDS + 555PS + Naim DAC + 555PS ..... hmmm could be a bit pricey. 

It had better sound fantastic if that is what they are coming up with ... 

I suspect transit screws will be the domain of the ND555 and the DAC555. 

If that turns out to be the case I have potentially save a significant quantity of money because for all the differences that we know exist in the dig outs of NDX, HDX et al, it won't be a significant enough upgrade if it can be boosted by the nDAC. Which would, I suppose be double good news because some of us are already running the best Naim DAC that can be got. I suspect that for reasons of both engineering and marketing, this will be unlikely. It will be fun finding out.

Good news! I will try to test it against my KDS1 

Bingo AMA!  I for one am starting to get tired of all of these black boxes - too many! - especially when one single silver one will do 

On a serious note what I have written above truly reflects my feelings.  Majik-Akurate-Klimax ie good-better-best.  Nice and simple.  I had a good chuckle at one of the above postings "UnitiServe + NDS + 555PS + Naim DAC + 555PS" however I could easily see this as being true - 5 boxes!  Great for Naim who want to sell as many as possible however I detect that many of us are suffering from box overload.  I know how happy I was when I swapped my SuperLine/SuperCap for a Urika - two less Fraim shelves.  I have been contemplating ditching my CD555/555PS for a Klimax and I have to say, in all sincerity, that today's announcement (or rather "lack" of one) is not convincing me to rethink the move I am contemplating.

Gregg

Hopefully the NDS will be a closed two box solution without a digital out (dig ins would be nice though). If it did have a dig out, it is IMHO unlikely to be upgradable by the current nDAC but rather by a future Naim DAC / nDAC2. It's interesting what Doug had to say in the interview:

"Can you talk about any new products coming down the pike from Naim?
Yes. In a vague fashion ☺ Given the fact that we are already successful with music performance in the digital domain and we see this as a key to future success we will continue to develop the range of streaming clients, DAC's and All-in-one products to meet what we believe will be high demand."

He does talk about DACs there 

I am sure Naim do not need my advise, but it would be interesting to get a computer connection not using any of the known, usb, firewire, thunderbolt, pcie methods, but another, true TCP/IP way without UPnP pacakging. Getting streaming from the PC or Mac on a way how Devialet providing wifi streaming directly from the computer, not using UPnP protocol. They have written a Mac and/or PC app which streams from he computer though wifi to the DAC's internal wifi receiver board, but probably can be done the same way using Ethernet as well. You do not need a NAS or a UPnP server or any file sharing method, just use a very simple so called streaming app which uses iTunes only to find the tracks then steal the data stream to the network connection directly in roughly 10 second chunks before it could reach the computer audio subsystem ie core audio for example. This way all the problems of drivers, cables, computer noises could be left out of the chain, only a very simple receiver board need internally in the DAC to receive the raw PCM data which can be clocked locally and feed the DAC or DSP through I2S. This way no clock needed at all in the computer, on the transmitter side and no noise is transmitted just pure data and this generally small board can be handled easily, does not require too much CPU cycle or DSP power, so again not too much noise is generated, needs only a clever way of buffering.

This way there is no general compatibility between devices like in the case of UPnP, but it is not really needed, so I am happy to loose it. UPnP does too many things, too many packaging, which are just wasting time, memory and cpu cycle if your purpose to listen music only and only between NDS and a computer, not streaming audio/video and metadata and album art to your Samsung TV too.... Streaming simple raw pcm data is probably the simplest way of doing streaming.

Ferenc

Why not just capture the entire track/album in memory on the NDS and play it from there - eliminating the front-end computer entirely. A simple file transfer to on-board RAM and then ... well do as Naim will as it it has complete control (to quote the Clash). You could even disconnect the computer while playing. 

Is there a reason that DAC makers don't simple use a 10 GB memory store to keep the whole thing on board?  

All the best, Guy 

Greg does the KDS sound nothing like the ADS? I have never heard a KDS, but the ADS was uninspiring to say the least so I never even contemplated pursuing the range any further. If the KDS is a very different beast and is Mac/VB friendly then it may be worth a listen. I don't care about box count. if I wanted to reduce the box count then I'd just move to conrad-johnson kit. However, if the Linn KDS really does sound good and not like the cheaper DS then I'll give it a listen.

Thanks, Guy 

I do use a Urika, I switched from SL, not because I thought it was better, but because it was immune to radio interference. The sound is different, but just as enjoyable. I think Linn are tops when it comes to playing records. The ADS on the hand sounded dire to me (I couldn't believe it was as mediocre as I heard - I have heard it more than once), hence the question about the KDS.  

With 24-bit recordings a Mac Mini feeding Naim DAC/555PS beats any CD player I've heard including the CD555. I would never claim the Mac is the ultimate, but it is simply down to a good source - the 24 bit recording and a superb DAC. An Ethernet only solution is not much good to me as I've no wired network in my main room (I could use a VB plus switch if was really worth the effort).

I won't copy all the quotes that make up the above post but following on from its contents

Guy

I had an ADS/0 for a while which I enjoyed. I will admit it has a different sound signature though in my system 552/500 it was certainly not dire sounding by any stretch of the imagination.

Bear in mind the ADS/1 was introduced as the upgraded version not too long ago and gives a significant uplift in performance over the ADS/0. Was it the ADS/0 or the ADS/1 you were talking about?

Anyway onward to the KDS/1 which I now have. I'll try not to wax too lyrical about it. Suffice to say it is very very good at what it does. I have heard quite a lot of CD555s including one I had myself at one time and they are well and truly beaten by the KDS. As to the sound signature, it has dynamics and emotion in spades. Of particular significance to my ears is the extensions and musical resolution of the bass I am hearing for the first time on familiar CDs. I would say it complements and reinforces the musical signature I have come to know from10 years of Naim ownership. 

Let me ask when you demoed the NDAC/555PS did it sound anywhere near as good as it does now you are living with it? That's the critical thing to bear in mind if you decide to demo the KDS/1 and treat it to a similar judgement. 

I think it would be worth the effort. You might also like to do a search on 'LinnDocs' and see if that is interesting to you.

Wonder if this post will survive?

Geoff

Guy

I have heard the original KDS/0 on multiple occassions - both through Linn systems and through Naim systems.  Each time I walked away extremely impressed by what it was capable of doing.  As for the original ADS/0 I had a brief listen and came away feeling exactly the same way as you did - not overly thrilled with its performance-OK but no reason for me to leave my (then at the time) CDS3.  I would have, back then, considered leaving the CDS3 for the Klimax - thats how good I thought it was.  Funds were instead used for other things.

May I also add that I came away with ambivalent feelings from the HDX and bare nDac (sans powersupply).  In my opinion the HDX was the equivalent of a CDX2  while the nDac (bare) the equivalent of a CD5 (both CD players which I have owned).  Neither inspired me to change.

I have not had the opportunity to experience the KDS/0 with the Dynamik power supply upgrade however it is my understanding that its performance (which already impressed me) was significantly improved.  I do not find this hard to comprehend as the Dynamik upgrade which I did on my Radikal power supply was one of the best VFM upgrades I have done in a long time.

It is my understanding that the new KDS/1 (as Geoff has) is once again a quantum leap over the KDS/0 Dynamik.  I believe this is universally acknowledged by all who have had experience with the original incarnation of the machine.  A quick visit to the Linn forums will confirm this.

I have spoken with Geoff on several occasions about his experience with the KDS.  He is someone whose ears I respect as he has been through the Naim upgrade cycle and has owned almost everything - including the CD555.  I have also been through a similar experience on the "upgrade" cycle myself having owned all of the recent model players.

I have also spoken with another well respected Forum member who has made the move from a CD555 (twin 555PS's!!) to Klimax DS and he has made similar comments to me.  If he is following this thread he may chime in.

I think you owe it to yourself to at least have a listen.  Regardless of today's announcement I am still seriously considering moving on from my CD555.

Best

Gregg

Geoff

Will this post survive?  

I certainly see no reason why it shouldn't