New NDS Streamer

Posted by: 0rangutan on 30 January 2012

See Doug Graham interview on the audiostream.com site:

"In February we will launch our top-of-the-line NDS streaming network player at the Bristol Sound and Vision Show".

Posted on: 25 February 2012 by Razor

@Alex

A very interesting reference. Will read more carefully later.

Thank you.

Posted on: 25 February 2012 by glevethan

Originally Posted by AllenB:

Let's all be thankful of the fact that we are about to get CD555 performance for about 2/3 the cost

Allen

No where have I seen anyone, attendees or Naim themselves, make this claim.

Posted on: 25 February 2012 by james n

Great find with the white paper. Interesting to see that the streamer board is not a new development but the latest 24/192 board (albeit in a box) as in the latest products.

Posted on: 25 February 2012 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Now I know there is much speculation about the sonic prowess of the NDS on this forum, but I just looked at the NDS technical specification on the Naim web site

Frequency Response	10kHz-20kHz, +0.1/-0.5dB

This is interesting, so don't expect too much in the bass department

Posted on: 25 February 2012 by james n

Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Now I know there is much speculation about the sonic prowess of the NDS on this forum, but I just looked at the NDS technical specification on the Naim web site

Frequency Response	10kHz-20kHz, +0.1/-0.5dB

This is interesting, so don't expect too much in the bass department

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by rjstaines

It says that's within the tolerance +0.1 / -0.5 db, which doesn't mean that's the extent of its capability though. Maybe there's one too many k's in there?

Over to Phil...?

(sorry James, I edited that just as you were responding)

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by james n

Or one k too many

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Richard Dane

Well spotted Simon. Glad somebody is paying attention. You win a year's free subscription to the Naim Forum.

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Red Rooster

Originally Posted by Polarbear:

I think it's FANTASTIC a company like Naim says trust your ears rather than what is said in aportfolio marketing guide that tells you what is definitely best. Our ears, rooms and systems are all different.
Time and time again on this forum people are berated for saying what things should sound like as opposed to letting people decide for them selves, this is what makes forum an interesting place.

I also think its fantastic that you can talk to the product designers in a frank and open manor and get such an open and honest response.

I have heard the NDS and I suggest all those that are interested in the NDS go and do the same. I was very impressed and I understand completely what it is about.

Regards

Wise words PB. Now then, last time we met, I think you were listening to a KDS in a certain Leicester shop. As a CD555 owner and a person with respected ears on this forum, how do you think the NDS sounds compares to those two.

Apologies for ther loaded question, but it had to be asked.

Regards

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Phil Harris

Originally Posted by rjstaines:

It says that's within the tolerance +0.1 / -0.5 db, which doesn't mean that's the extent of its capability though. Maybe there's one too many k's in there?

Over to Phil...?

(sorry James, I edited that just as you were responding)

*chuckle*

I'm so tempted to say that those numbers are correct, we have a +15db hike at 10Hz and that we're calling it the "Gangsta" edition...

...but someone would take me seriously!

No - I strongly suspect that that should be "10Hz" rather than "10kHz" but I'll check tomorrow ... right now after the "Naim DAC upgrade " debarcle and the daft mistakes on the NDS spec page I feel like just going back to bed (or going out, buying a DeLorean and driving at 88mph hoping for a miracle).

I think both Sales and Marketing owe me a beer after this last few days.

Phil

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Hook

Hi Phil -

And each of us owes you a beer for all of your good, open and honest posts!

Careful man...that's a lot of beer!

Hook

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Phil Harris

Originally Posted by Hook:

Hi Phil -

And each of us owes you a beer for all of your good, open and honest posts!

Careful man...that's a lot of beer!

Hook

Such a shame that I don't "drink" eh?

(/me wonders how he got the nickname of "Sambucca Phil" after a show up in Chester a few years ago...)

Phil

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by m0omo0

Originally Posted by Phil Harris:

(/me wonders how he got the nickname of "Sambucca Phil" after a show up in Chester a few years ago...)

Chester Phil, Shirley ?

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Purity of Essence

Originally Posted by Phil Harris:

....... I feel like just going back to bed (or going out, buying a DeLorean and driving at 88mph hoping for a miracle).

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders -

The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go on the Forum when a new product is announced"

Adam

But for now, rest well and dream of large women.

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Purity of Essence

Originally Posted by Pev:

.... Mark's comment pales in comparison to the response to my question about lack of a powered input on the Superuniti - one of the reasons given was "there's no more room on the back panel" (of course it already has a din input that isn't powered)!!!!. But having said that, I've said stupid things under pressure, I guess we all have - the circumstances don't make them less stupid but they do make them understandable.

I'm not sure which of you is being stupid here.

Would you like to substitute your powered DIN socket for the more generally useful one that presently occupies this position on the back panel?

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Harry

Originally Posted by Phil Harris:

I'm so tempted to say that those numbers are correct, we have a +15db hike at 10Hz and that we're calling it the "Gangsta" edition...

...but someone would take me seriously!

Rather disingenuous of you Phil. There is a chasm between a recommendation made by a representative of Naim at a product launch and a throwaway joke, based on a genuine error on a forum. This kind of attitude is a potential killer of good will. And where good will goes business follows. Methinks perhaps they are working you too hard.

Let's hope that sunnier vistas prevail in due course.

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by charnik

ndac powered by 555ps or xps costs more than internal nds dac (the first combo costs more than nds itself).
so ndac (not bare) it has to be an upgrade to nds.

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by rjstaines

Will the Gangsta sku be aimed at club DJs ?

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Purity of Essence

Originally Posted by charnik:

ndac powered by 555ps or xps costs more than internal nds dac (the first combo costs more than nds itself).
so ndac (not bare) it has to be an upgrade to nds.

I think a fishcake would be an upgrade to the NDS without a power supply.

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Harry

Well spotted. If the nDAC/555 can give the NDS a run for its money, or enhance it, this is good news for those of us fortunate enough to own them. I would rather chop the nDAC in for something superior n its own right. Preferably in one or two boxes. Now there's a thought.

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by rjstaines

Given both the NDS and DAC use Burr Brown PCM1704 chips, but the NDS mounts them on a superior (sprung) board, I'd have thought that's the first indication that the NDS would be a superior DAC in its own right. Given also that the chip is not the be-all and end-all of DAC design, no doubt we'll be hearing about some other tweaks that enhance the NDS DAC's performance compared to the basic (did I say 'basic'?) DAC.

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Dustysox

Originally Posted by Dustysox:

Originally Posted by AllenB:

Originally Posted by Dustysox:

Just got back from Bristol....

Well... very easy on the eye, put a big smile on my face, great curves and even brushed my hand.

I am of cource talking about the very beautiful lady on the stand sorting out tickets for the dem room .

O....and the NDS, for me was eveything I expected. Active 600's driven by 3 X 250's and a 552.

Suffice to say, the NDS had a high expectancy and steped up to the mark. The NDX as well gave a good account of itself, but as you would expect with a price difference I could clearly hear the improvement given by the NDS.

Well done Naim.

Steady Dusty, watch that blood pressure

So how do you think it compared to your setup at home? (No, not the wife )

I know that's almost an impossible question to answer, but did the NDS/555PS step up big against the NDX/XPS?

Cheers

Allen

Hi Allen,

Sorry for this admission....to be honest ( and I know this doesn't help) a home dem is going to tell everyone what they need to know. I was sat off centre on front row seating in a relatively small room. I was sat very close to the S600's, too close. Less than ideal to get a true picture. Suffice to say the XPS/NDX config was very good. A setup I am very familiar with. What threw me was how good active is. At low listening when I walked in, a complete audio spectrum was all there to enjoy (Cue Darke Bear any second ) I confess to being somewhat of an active virgin (cue the jokes!!), boy am I glad we only had 35mins listening alocated, then the next group moves in.I could quite easily of sat there enjoying any genre listening to the NDS/555PS on an active system and then the what if's start....o no I'm a Naimoholic!!

Not much I know, but enough to know Naim have achieved the next step on the streaming ladder....with some considerable steps I might add.

I know others will be along to report in better detail than I.

Will I be getting one...O YES. What was interesting in a very breif chat to one of the Naim guys when I mentioned losing my DAC as well as NDX in favour of the NDS he said hang on to it and see what it brings to the party...ouch my head hurts.

Any way Phil.....Alison & Chelsea eh!!!

Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Dusty, I am not surprised by your post. It might be the NDAC/555PS or NDS/555PS gives a choice of presentation styles rather than an 'upgrade'. As noted before the performance of the NDAC/555PS often appears to extend beyond the digital recording quality envelope, and so I think the dominafeta aspectwill be presentation style. Ie if you like the ndac/555PS presentation perhaps the NDS/555PS brings little or even detracts.

Its all speculation,but at this level I am not sure there is 'definite' 'sonic improvement but may be more about sonic presentation choices, and perhaps the comment you heard reflects this thinking.

Simon

Originally Posted by Dustysox:

Gents,

In the fairness of bebate and clarification, I was told to hold on to the DAC to see "what it brought to the party". I did not take this as an upgrade for the NDS. I took it as pure speculation and interest. Time was limited yesterday, and I did not get the oppotunity to further investigate. So, if you are going today...have questions ready.

Maybe anyone going to the show today/tomorrow could get further clarification.

Allen...enjoy your morning coffee!

Phew...how long was I gone!!

Gents, I would like to again clarify my point as above. In No WAY was I told that the Naim DAC offered an upgrade to th NDS

I think Simon put it perfectly as above "presentation style".

Mark ( who by now might never speak to me again) said to put on hold selling the Naim DAC to see what it brought to the party. He/I NEVER said it was an upgrade.

The NDS is a superior product " to my ears". Naim I'm sure have put in a lot of hard work into this, and as I mentioned when I tried (misserably) to answer Allen's question about my thoughts, I did advise that a home dem was the only way any of us will be sure.

In view of the passion/debate my comment has caused I think I'll take a back seat from posting for a while. It is by no means my intention to cause any problems/arguments on what I consider to be the best forum out there. The forum is both interesting, it is full of some of the most knowledgeable and nicest people I have ever come across.

As the song says....Thank you for the Music!!!!!

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Harry

Dusty. I apologise to you for my contribution towards causing you any embarrassment. I will henceforth shut the ---- up and respect your position.

Thank you for taking the time to post a report and for your subsequent clarification.

Like you, I'll be listening to one at home. At that point I'm sure a number of us will go a number of ways.

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Harry

Originally Posted by rjstaines:

basic (did I say 'basic'?) DAC.

That's the thing. Diminutive and keenly priced (bare) it may be. But what a cracker!

Posted on: 26 February 2012 by Plinko

Dustysox, please do not stop posting. Any mildly intelligent individual would understand that Mark's comment was in no way a statement indicating DAC is an upgrade for the NDS. Been surprised to read the the brouhaha over this comment. I think the larger issue is that the company, Naim, state that DAC is an upgrade for NDS in their product literature. According to the product literature, the punters are still left with a four box combo as the ultimate digital solution. With that said and in an attempt to counter all of the negativity, if a NDS is superior to a CDS3 or perhaps even a CD555, then isn't this still an excellent result?