New NDS Streamer

Sorry to interrupt the nDac debate, but I'm a bit disappointed the the NDS hasn't a bigger display. It looks as if it has the same small display as NDX and SuperUniti which makes the IR remote almost useless. So you have to use your iPhone again which can be pretty annoying in practice. Either you have to unlock it and wait for Wifi connection every time you want to press a button or you have to block standby mode which sucks up the battery pretty fast so that it may not be sufficiently loaded when otherwise needed. I hope Naim develops in not too distant future either a bigger display for their streamers or a display based Wifi remote (like Cyrus, Logitech or Sonos).

Allen, I think you are going to eventually end up with a four box Naim solution whether you like it or not.  ;-)

Allen

You seem to be forgetting that - according to Naim - the NDS will be maximized with TWO 555PS's. This is the configuration which they are pitching as their current ultimate reference streamer (if I understand the press releases and website correctly).

Gregg

Whatever we buy, tomorrow will always bring something better ..... I think for me the NDS with just one PSU will be far enough (assuming it performs as well as Mac/Naim DAC + 555PS of course). 

For most people you are most likely right (especially here in the States where an additional 555PS costs $9350).

I do think people are being optimistic if they think a NDS/555PS/555PS will beat the CD555.  I think the eventual ND555 will be left with that job (or a NDS/eventual reference nDac bolt on).

If it is of a similar quality to the CDS3, then it will do for 99% of Naim customers or remain an aspiration anyway, I am sure!

ATB from George

Linn would have differentiated it with a silly name the Klepto perhaps or the Krimbo - actually the Klepto sounds quite fun..... or Pliinko - I've got a new Naim Pliinko DX .... cool

Ipad 3 due next week .... rumours of high def music streaming and a new ATV - hopefully with decent audio streaming capabilities.

NDS looks great but Mrs Tog .... she says no ;-(

Tog

Or, we could all pretend we're bears...har har har har....

Why wouldn't it - it certainly has the potential to do so. The ND555 (if that ever appears) should completely surpass it. Things move on...

...so, if you took the digital streaming gubbins out of the NDS to create a pure DAC ("DACS"?), you'd improve the sound quality? 

Plinko - I think you'll find magic rabbit is rather closer to the truth - a bear is quite different....

A glade full of Apples 

Bears don't have fluffy tails.

Tog

and then have the S/PDIF link to concern yourself with, but you've already improved the situation in with the suspension, DAC chip screening and full use of the 555PS so a 'super' nDAC is certainly a possibility. 

The NDS uses optical connections internally to isolate things so I cannot see how an external DAC would improve things. The ND555 if it ever comes should be a two box player like the NDS (assuming one 555PS). It will just be tweaked slightly so FLAC will sound better than WAV as nServe 555 will rip to FLAC 

For those who are puzzled with NDS S/PDIF output -- do you realize that Naim is not the only manufacturer of standalone DACs?

Check dCS, GTE Trinity, MSB Diamond DACIV, Wadia 922, Vekian Stahl-tek, Kondo DAC, ANUK DAC5, MBL 1611F, Lavry DA2002 Gold, Weiss DAC202 -- which is still far from complete list of rivals.

All of them (except the last two) are more expensive than Naim/Linn top streamers (sometimes twice or triple the price of NDS with two 555PS) but since some people have got accustomed to their sonic signature and overall performance while streaming solutions may not be available from the same manufacturer -- why not to use Naim/Linn streamers to feed them?

Yep, there's enough space on the front for a bigger screen, say in squeezebox size so that you can easily control it from 3 to 5 meter distance.

Sorry but why on earth would you spend £6250 on a streamer and then £5000 on a power supply for it, only to then put an off-board DAC on as well! Has the world gone mad - surely the DAC in the NDS is good enough! I would imagine any differences would be small anyhow.

Agree on the screen, for such an expensive product it looks rubbish, if logitech can put half decent one on a squeezebox for £200 surely a better one could have been fitted? Cue the response on how the screen could interfer sound quality or costs etc yawn......

...Or that most use an iPad etc to control it. I only use the screen for initial setup and diagnostics. Seems a bit of a waste spending money on a fancy streamer to have to keep getting up to look at the screen and use the front panel buttons. Why fit a fancy one when the green one works ?

Sorry but why on earth would you spend £6250 on a streamer and then £5000 on a power supply for it, only to then put an off-board DAC on as well! Has the world gone mad - surely the DAC in the NDS is good enough! I would imagine any differences would be small anyhow.

I partly understand your point and that is why personally  I was hoping that the NDS would just be a streamer without an onboard DAC. The NDX DAC is already redundant in my present system.

Anyway Naim have chosen otherwise and it appears that the NDS outperforms the NDX and external Naim DAC but still leaves the option open for those with the money and inclination to add an improved Naim DAC (if there ever is one) at a later date.

surely the DAC in the NDS is good enough! I would imagine any differences would be small anyhow.

Don't call me Shirley! Unfortunately differences are subjective,  so what is small to me might be huge to you and vice versa. Whether the differences are "better" or  worth the money is also a very subjective judgement.

The power supply upgrades are obviously a personal choice but you need at least one external supply for the NDS to work at all. Spending more on better power supplies further improves the sound as demonstrated many times before whether with preamps, cd players or more recently streamers.

It is really up to the individual to decide how far they want and can afford to take it before they are happy or bankrupt!

I can foresee a four box outcome for some lucky people - an NDS/555ps feeding  a new Naim DAC/555ps.

I do not think there would be a need for two 555ps to be used on the NDS if a new Naim external DAC is introduced. Presumably the second 555ps previously used on NDS to power the internal DAC circuits  would not be needed so would be transferred to the external DAC,

Still lots of options to consider.

Whilst I am fairly convinced that the NDS with the multiple 555 power supply  options will probably sound better than my present NDX/XPS2/NDAC/555ps combo,  I would like to know if the NDS/555ps will sound that much better. I suspect I would not get that much of an improvement until I could add an improved DAC.

Perhaps a home dem will be in order once the NDS hits the market but I feel t might be worth waiting to see if a new DAC comes along (Bristol next year ??) before trading anything in and parting with cash.

Although to be fair the Weiss 202 sounds better through its firewire input than its S/PDIF input, so i'm not quite sure what an NDS in front of it would acheive ?

The display as used on the HDX is a lovely one but it simply wasn't practical to use it in the ND's...

...and at the end of the day, from what we find, most people don't use their units "up close" either and prefer to use the kit from a distance in which case the external 3" and 9.7" displays come into their own as there's not really any practical way to get all that information on a "10 foot" interface using a display that's small enough to go into the box...

Phil

You never know how something will pan out until it lands at home. the results can vary considerably - which comes as no surprise. 

I think it is reasonable to suppose that a higher level DAC is a strong possibility and the NDS (at least as presented so far) addresses this. Would Naim give owners the option of using a DAC from another manufacturer with nothing in their pipe line? Unlikely.  

So the DAC which is to come will be the new reference source. Awful lot of engineering and external power arrangements for an S level streamer for essentially a digital out stream. Of course it will be the best you can get and some will be willing to pay for what it can offer.

The first stage of the chin scratching will be to get one home. I might be inclined to wait for the next DAC, then audition the streamers from ND5 up but I'm still looking forward to having a go on the NDS to see where we're at now.

Naim's higher end product development appears to be to replace their CD players with servers whilst retaining the X/S/555 hierarchy. Given the competition e.g. Linn, I'd be surprised if Naim wanted to increase the box count, so the most likely development I would have thought would be a 555 streamer in the region of £12K with 555PS.

 Naim would want this to be "the world's best" as the CD555 was for CDs, so probably a few years down the line before it appears (the CD555 was introduced four years after the CDS3) by which time hi res recordings of new popular music should be more common place and cheaper to download than at present.

Will the price of the NDS be going up on 31st March??!!

Be surprised if they put up price before it'e even released! Unless VAT rate changes of course which is unlikely ;-)