New NDS Streamer

I have auditioned a whole bunch of very expensive digital sources and KDS1 is on the top of the mountain. It's the best digital source I have ever heard by a margin.

ADS is a very clean and neutral player but it's noway near in terms of spaciousness, imaging, transient attack and analogueness.

nDAC/555PS (which I also own) is the same fast and spacious as KDS1 but more digital (= bright, edgy) comparing to KDS1.

On hi-res the gap in  analogousness is shorter but KDS1 is still smoother and closer to live performance.

In some sense a difference between nDAC/555PS and KDS1 is similar to ... CDX2/555PS vs CDS3/555PS. No surprise if someone will prefer CDX2/555PS or nDAC/555PS. 

The way KDS1 played Meet Me in London is amazing.

I had never heard a digital source to sound that close to LP12...

Mario 

It comes round to personal preference but I would say that if you add an NDX and top it off with a 555PS to go with the nDAC/555PS you will no doubt be getting there ( a little more pricey than a KDS/1). This is where Gregg's point about box count also comes into consideration where people are looking at adding probably a 4 tier rack. If folk are OK with it that (also requires more floor area and the cost of the rack ) thats the competitive option for the KDS/1

The NDS will certainly be an interesting product to understand and hear. I think there is only so much you can wring out of 44.1/16 and the industry has travelled that path for a long time. While I am willing to be surprised I feel the KDS/1 is doing pretty much the best you can do there.

Certainly Linn has a solid approach to Jitter control which benefits from not having to deal with the SPDIF thing.

It is perhaps more in 96/24 and 192/24 that the subtle differences in A/D rendering will be more obvious as that gains real momentum.

For example, like AMA, I think the Meet me in London 192/24 Naim download sounds fabulous. I have the LP as well and think the KDS/1 beats Vinyl there.

regards

Geoff

I think what Naim nDAC does when uses an USB stick, is very similar to what you mentioned. No SPDIF transmission at all, just read the data chunks from the USB memory to a buffer through a DSP. No packaging, no communication protocol, just raw pcm data if you play wav files from the USB memory. If you play FLAC then there is a decoding to PCM raw first. At least as I understood.

Linn Network streaming does half of this, reading the data into a relatively small buffer in their DS to keep it topped up as the data is progressed in the replay process. A 'playlist' is created asa first action automatically in the DS and the DS then 'pulls' the data off the network. The only thing you need running once this is initiated is the NAS ( typically out in the garage or kitchen) which is nice. You can pause music and come back a day later for example and just hit 'play' on the DS and it will start playing where it left off. Don't need to start up a computer ( assuming the NAS is on 24/7) to initiate again.

Geoff

Geoff/Greg

Many thanks for your replies. I must have heard the original ADS. Sounds like the KDS is a different beast from this entirely. I will make an effort to hear the latest KDS - certainly if I'm going to audition the NDS then it makes sense to hear a Linn alternative. 

Geoff, I think my Naim DAC/555PS has improved as I've sorted out the best way to feed it in my domestic environment. Both the W4S ZP90 and new Mac Mini give fine results. However, I did like the Naim DAC/555PS when I first heard it with a CDX2 as a transport and this sound is comparable to Mac Mini. The W4S up samples and this can sound very nice, I almost said better, but not completely sure. Certainly, I don't think I could get more out of a CDP than what I have even using the very clever Meridian player, which I was lucky enough to be able to try. 

So I have two approaches for the coming hi-res music revolution - KDS or NDS.  

All the best, Guy 

Hi Geoff 

My NAS is a Vortexbox in my office. It feeds a UQ over Ethernet through UPnP and a W4S ZP90 over wireless. I do not have a wired LAN downstairs: best I could manage is a Vortexbox connected through a small switch. 

The Mac Mini/Naim DAC/555PS works well because of the versatility of the Mac. Functionally, it is hard to beat. It has Internet access through wireless and works with other Apple devices (IPad) for remote control.  It also plays 24 bit music, which the W4S ZP90 doesn't. The Mac Mini connects to the Naim DAC through a Supernova Glass Optical and the W4S ZP90 through a Chord Coax. The W4S ZP90 is unnecessary now and it may move on or get used in another room. 

I still have a CDX2, but sadly it doesn't get much use these days. Doesn't sound as crisp without its 555PS which now aspirates the DAC.  

The Naim DAC/555 PS sounds at its best with a USB stick carrying hi-res content; hence I wondered why does a manufacturer not make a DAC with a fair whack of RAM that could hold entire albums (or playlists). This would seem to make transport quality irrelevant and kill off the jitter debate. 

Seems Naim, Linn, Chord, PS Audio, Meridian all use smallish RAM buffers, but why not go for the big one - a bit like memory play on the Mac/iTunes/BP set-up without the S/PDIF transmission between boxes. There may be a good reason. Perhaps as you imply the current buffers are good enough and making them bigger would have no audible advantage

All the best, Guy

Hi Guy

I do see your point about a big RAM buffer.

The time to download a complete album, especially at hi res (a typical 192/24 album in WAV would be about 3.5Gb ) maybe one of the concerns. Long Playlists would also require a big lump of RAM and be time consuming to download. I am probably not typical but I have playlists with more than 200 tracks in them ( a typical such playlist is 12Gb in 44.1 WAV).

I would assume that it would be advantageous to expand FLAC to WAV during download to remove the processor load from the DAC.

Of course the payback is that the clock control is fully in the DAC. This is the approach Linn uses of course but with a small Buffer. 

FYI.

I use a pair of D-Link Homeplugs  to get a wired network connection from my router to upstairs. That works well and as far as I can tell has no audio impact on the data stream and is reliable.

regards

Geoff

I agree Geoff, KDS sound is fabulous and synergy with Naim kit is great and mine is on it's way on Friday to replace my much loved ADS1

Can't wait

ttfn

RR

Congrats Sir. It will sound great straight away but based on how it went for myself you will need at least 2 weeks to get over the initial settling in. As for those Lundahl transformers, they will go on improving for quite some time. They take a while to really get up to speed.

Try to stop and eat occasionally 

rgds

Geoff

Stop it Geoff, you're tempting me! 

heh, heh....

I guess the full gory detail of the NDS and strategy concerning add on boxes should be allowed to surface. First take at a show in late February....then time to actual shipping?.....then a period of waiting while the brave first buyers suffer any glitches?....could be a while.

Then of course there will the PRICE. Suspect including PS will be up there at same level of the KDS/1 at least.

I am very happy I love the KDS/1 it saves me all that hassle. I can sit back and enjoy my retirement NOW.( time is becoming precious )

Regards

Geoff

Geoff

And....according to the interview the new NDS is still not going to be the top of the line offering.  The nDac will also be eventually improved upon.

As such if one purchases the NDS (and as some have SPECULATED it will be a two box affair with the Dac built in) then eventually it will be "bested" by a new and improved Dac (nDac2) and a top of the line player (ND555).  So we still are not there yet.

Too confusing - a single box from the competition, currently available in a good-better-best form, and always available to be factory upgraded when new developments arise - sounds pretty good to me.

Gregg

Hi Geoff

I didn't realise you had klimaxed. It's a process I went through a while back, and the latest upgrade made it even better. I was also using a 552 in front of my ATCs until I tried a KK/1 and found even more Fraimspace.

The only thing I'm spending my money on at the moment is music.

Of course, we'll have to have a listen to the NDS when it comes, but the KDS/1 sets the bar pretty high IMHO. Don't mention the Devialet either....

Cheers

John

Agreed Gregg. The single-box solution is very tempting, and Geoff's point regarding waiting around for Naim developments when you're a "Certain Age" is a very valid one!

Tony

I don't think I am yet of that "certain age" however I have grown tired of waiting around for developments...only to be disappointed as many have not panned out (imho).  I have not been thrilled with many of the digital products (starting with the HDX) and I waited for the Ovator range (to replace my Allae's) and was completely let down (flame suit on).  A pair of Kudos Titan's was installed this past summer.

I have been impressed with the 4 year development path the DS range has taken and the results they have achieved.

Gregg

Keep it clean fellas.

When the Klimax was recently upgraded Linn provided a service whereby the 'old' innards could be set in a new rather fetching case as the Klimax Renew - I rather like their approach to looking after their customers and their rapid development cycles.

I have an issue with the multi-box upgrade stairway to oblivion ( or penury) approach to hifi anyway and am yet to be convinced it satisfies all but the smallest of demographic niches. 

Tog

I guess the full gory detail of the NDS and strategy concerning add on boxes should be allowed to surface. First take at a show in late February....then time to actual shipping?.....then a period of waiting while the brave first buyers suffer any glitches?....could be a while.

Then of course there will the PRICE.

=====================================================

My guess would be £3500 for the head unit

Where Naim could improve things is a nice big power supply that powered the NDS and the Amplification - a sort of MutltpleCap. Just one mains lead - a Power-Line with built in DC suppression to keep the thing from buzzing. 

Without multiple boxes would not that leave lots of empty shelves on the Fraim? 

This could be true but empty shelves separating high quality signal process boxes further is good for performance. 

My system sits atop an antique french dressing table - the beautiful Mrs Tog would not take kindly to a Fraim so multiple boxes are not an option ;-)

Tog

Buy a Linn KDSM and you'll have a one box killer system with preamp, dac and streamer

Ralf

For that price a Devialet makes more sense.

Tog