New NDS Streamer

modern well designed streamers will have the same digital output, the diffrencewill be in the filtering and the design of the audio output of the dacs.  naims range is getting difficult to understand. maybe heading for a new unit too far

AMA

Bit-perfect transmission of audio data is about the easiest thing to achieve when making sw players.

Perfect timing of transmission is a whole different ball-game.

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aleg

Aleg, I agree that today there is a bunch of drivers which bypass OS processing and can deliver bits intact to the USB  or Firewire generator. In my previous posts I was mostly referring to the possible reasons why Allen heard difference in various SW players through his INT202 Firewire interface. One reason was that his SW playback was not actually set for bit-perfect transmission.

The other reason is that despite the SW bypasses the windows drivers and sends bits directly to the output the Firewire device may randomly fail on bits. This is not a problem when the other side of the line slaves the sender and checks the checksums and repeat the sendings until the data copied correctly -- but I don't think INT202 is doing this.  

AMA - i cant remember the history of your digital path, but did you have the INT202 and try out the Weiss transparency checker on various software players ?

Mario, I think you might be finding your UTP lead is more to do with the the fact you are changing the field balance of the twisted cables and are inducing imbalances in the twisted pairs if not perfectly formed. This is creating mismatches in the coupled twists and producing a return current at RF frequencies. This will create an imbalance in the twsited pair which will create an a return current.

By raising your ethernet lead of the ground you might be better allowing the field to be non interupted in tisted pairs and remain balanced. What sort of flooring or carpet do you have? Is it wood or concrete? or carpetted with wool?

You may well find that differnt UTP cable responds differently. What sort of cable are you using? If your flooor is raised wood and not all  conductive then the it is unlikely to have much effect and perhaps something else is at play...

At least for a while Allen, until Naim release the nDAC2, which in turn will be upgradable by a PS555, so you're back to a 4 box solution 

And that's just for starters because the ultimate SQ solution might actually be NDS/ 2xPS555/ nDAC2/ 2xPS555, which of course would make it a 6 box solution!! That may be a lot of boxes and money out your bank account but you can rest assured it will sound much better than the CD555/ 2xPS555 

I look forward to your reviews Allen 

Totemphile, - but will it sound much better???

I was drawn to my recent excursion in to 192/24 with Meet me in London. On my relatively modest NDX (tweaked) -> NDAC/555PS it was jaw dropping. BUT not neccessarily better or more relastic, in fact it wasn't - the guitar and fret board was exagerated and vocals were too closely mic'd to sound natural on my revealing system as compared to unprocessed acosutic recordings I have that sound very credible and lifelike but perhaps not as attention grabbing becasue they sound uncanningly lifelike. 

So my conclusion is the replay has to be in balance to the recorder, and if there is an imbalance in sonic performance between the two it can sound 'interesting', but not neccessariy better - I guess it depends whether you are after sonic fireworks or realism.. but if you are hearing information that the recording engineer couldn't hear - the end effect is going to be unpredicatable.

Just saying that is ipso facto arrogant.

"Piece" out,

Patrick

@aleg -

Luckily, the nDAC takes care of the timing, so you don't have to worry about the timing of the transmission.

@Simon -

When the only tool you have is a (RF) hammer, everything looks like a nail. 

I wish it was that easy

My ears tell me differently.

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aleg

Noogle, sorry and your point? What is your view onunbalanced leakage current from the UTP. Which just so happens to be modulated at radio frequencies?

You see in laymens terms we have DC, electromagnetc audio frequencies and ultrasonic, and then amassive range of frequencies which we called radio frequency and then light... Therefore we canprobably assume we are not talking light pollution, and the affect we hear is modulating the audio and possibly the ultrasonic frequencies, it only leaves radio frequencies. Of course themanifestation of RF is immense and diverse. Kind of like grouping all OSX software together, you,can, but what the software does it huge and diverse, 

Hmmm perhaps Phil H was right.

Simon

I wish it was that easy

 

My ears tell me differently.

 

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aleg

So do mine. Possibly we have the wrong ears 

Hi Mario, do you know which Class (not Cat) the cable is. This should define the construction - ie whether it is UTP, STP or SSTP. If its STP or SSTP out of interest is there any difference when you change the direction of the cable around?

Also if you get a senhsitive short wave radio, put its antenna along the plane of the Ethernet cable touching the plastic cover (PVC or similar). When you send data does the background noise increase? You might need to tune around to find a 'resonant point' Is the style of the noise different as to when you suspend the cable as to when on the floor?

If its a good quality STP or SSTP cable I don't see that you should hear much unless becasue of the transformer effect through the shields and low quality twists that eminate cross talk.

Really interested to hear what you find ?

Cheers

Simon

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Come on...

Have you found the reason of the current economic crisis: Greeks are using cheap network cable, so all their data are corrupted...

Originally Posted by Aleg:

I wish it was that easy

 

My ears tell me differently.

 

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aleg

So do mine. Possibly we have the wrong ears 

And mine. Indeed perhaps we have the wrong kind of ear, ie the ones that only should hear the results of simplified conceptual modelling and carefully filter out all those horrible nasty real life things that require a greater level of technical understanding and engineering discipline to appreciate..

Hi Mario, well it is clearly 5e - so it has standard cross talk characterisitcs - so in network performacne it is no different from regular 5e cable.There are no twisted pair shields, but it does shield all the pairs together. Therefore as it is standard 5e I can imagine some induced current in the shield. It might be worth changing the direction of the cable to see if there is any difference. Shielded cable is usually earthed at one end only to avoid earth loops, and so therefore becomes directional.

I think induced shield currents are more likely than mechanical modulation. Try the short wave raio test and see if anything interesting happens... I also suspect clamping inductive chokes on the cable will have a noticable effect.

Simon

"the wrong ears"

The main issue is our brains that sit between them :-) - the sound from my system alters all the time - often it has more to do with my mood and the time of day.

Tog

Tog, you are spot on. I also find  differences in mastering can make it hard to follow one recording with another without a break, as your brain has conditioned itself to the initial recording and can make the subsequent one sound 'off'. I find the better resolving and convincing your audio equipment becomes the more this happens. I never have this effect listening to the car radio for example! 

Following Steve's announcement of the NDS press release, this is what's up on whathifi.com for now:

http://www.whathifi.com/blog/n...d-nds-network-player

There's also this on the same site. It gives the price as £6250 but of course you need a PS too. Thanks!