NDX + DAC + XPS2

Many thanks, Simon,

I meant to literally stack the boxes like this (each directly on top of each other, no Fraim):

ND5xs

DAC

282

Maybe not a good idea. Alternatively, I just discovered that I CAN make some space for the DAC in a different shelf (and move the CD5XS elsewhere). But is it really worth it to replicate part of the ND5XS by the nDAC? (effectively I would replace the ND5xs' PCM1791 against the glorious 1704). I have just revisited a review of the NDX in the German stereoplay, where they did not really find the DAC an improvement over the bare NDX (and rather recommended an external PSU for the NDX than the DAC). What should I do (with auditioning being somewhat tricky here in the North-West)? Maybe I just leave things as they are (no DAC)? But I am aware of your sonic praise of the DAC/555 over the bare NDX, Simon...

Any further views welcome!

Thanks again,

Stefan

Stefan, oh I see, well as Naim specifically recommend you don't directly stack in their manuals I guess you want to keep the components stacked to a bare minimum and only use 'essentail' components. Of course sonically you are asking for compromises so as you say the benefits of higher quality components might be masked anyway. 

The NDX's DAC on its own is rather good. It has a warmish balance and although not revealing it is sufficiently  detailed to satisfy and has a suprisingly wide stereo image. It is IME quite easy to match with down stream electronics which was perhaps one of its design goals.

The NDAC is a different beast. On its own it can be very detailed and analytical. This can make it sound a little rude in the wrong company. As you say its when you split the NDAC's PSU with an XPS or definitely with a 555PS it then transforms the performance in terms of detail, dynamics, sweetness, presence and authority... But I admit this is not a cheap option and you need the electronics and speakers to deliver this (I note Stefan you have the 282 but what PA?) or you might be wondering 'so what?'. So you may well be very pleased with the NDX/PSU or NDX on its own which is very enjoyable and the sound flows well but ultimately not as insightful, revealing or authoritive. It doesn't quite groove the same way.. But it certainly sounds significantly more than acceptable.. It's just all relative. and deciding where you want to arrive at.. So perhaps only consider the NDAC with a PSU, otherwise use the DAC with the ND player.....

I am afraid I have not really spent much time with the ND5XS so can't really comment on its performance.

BTW there is far more to the DAC than the DAC chip.. There is the chip config, oversampling DSP and critically the i2v converter, analogue filter components and layout / PCB component  mounting. The NDS the NDAC share quite a lot in this regard. 

Pz, since you already own the nDac/xps did you consider trading in the xps in favour of the 555ps then buy a UQ or ND5xs? As I suspect a UQ into nDac/555 would sound better then ndx into nDac/xps And would cost similar with the xps trade in.

Warm thanks again, Simon, meissmar and Sean!

my 282 goes into NAP200 and then B&W 805D speakers. The system is a bit on the bright side, thus I would not want an even 'brighter' source (but I guess this would not apply to the DAC anyway). I would like to improve on the soundstage of the ND5XS & PSU ('presence and localisation of the Jazz musicians in the room'), and the DAC might just give that?

S.

Stefan, I edited my previous post to say listen to the NDAC but perhaps only  with a PSU and see what it does... I know you said auditiong is difficult, but with this kind of cash I really think you need to.. Unless you buy used and you can resell with minimal/no loss if it doesn't work. Why not try a used 555PS .. There are a few around now.. That on your DAC should have you smiling.. If you can find the space .....

How are you powering the 282? I know there are lots of variables but my NDX->DAC/555PS into 202/HC/200 into ATC SCM19s is definitely not bright..  But I use regular lavander DIn leads / SNAICs and A5 speaker cable... All copper and I am sure that helps make the sound balanced and neutral.

Stefan my question is aimed at the OP PZ

Stefan, obviously cant  get into specifics on this particular forum, but I have found certain Israeli PSUs on the brighter side of neutral..you may find a Salisbury one sounds more balanced... But I guess you are familiar with your speakers..

Interesting, Simon! I do regret that I had not tried the XP5XS ...

The most prominent addition of my current PSU to the NP5XS was a more full and articulated bass, and more clarity of the sound, but I found there is a slight cost of (less precise) soundstage and PRAT. No change on brightness with this. I cannot exclude that the (slight) overall brightness comes from the 282's PSU (which I never changed). More likely a feature of the 805Diamonds, I think.

S.

Thanks, Meissmar,

I did not know that the DAC is a male - I think I would prefer a female DAC!

Assuming that the new V1 is most likely of neutral gender, this leaves us with establishing the gender for NDX and NDS - any suggestions? Perhaps the other forthcoming naim DACs over 2013 will be female?

S.

Sorry, folks, one more query:

If I use the nDAC between ND5XS and my preamp, does this give a noticeable delay (> 1/2 s), compared to the ND5XS analog output? I am asking since the reviews mention the large buffer of the nDAC... Or is the delay in the order of 100 ms?

Many thanks,

Stefan

Hi Stefan no noticeable delay - certainly no lip sync issues with films

Oops. You overpaid. Should've gotten the UnitiQute as a digital source. Certainly not worth the price difference... Could've used the differnece to go to a 555PS some day.

Well, MangoMonkey, I enjoy the qute in my study, where it doubles as a heating!

But at the minute I am rather put off by the complexity of adding the DAC to my ND5XS - 282 - 200 system. I would run 2 additional PSUs, compared to my current setup, and might want to have a route to bypass the DAC for background listening (i.e., connect ND5XS also to an analog input), would need additional cabling, etc. These considerations let me appreciate the relative simplicity of my current 10 box (!) system (above 3 plus CD5XS, stageline, headline, 4 external PSUs, not counting Thorens and Revox legacies...). I think I'll give the upgrading a break, and hope to just about cope with Simon's stigma of the ultimately not as insightful, revealing, or authoritative and less grooving sound of my DAC-deprived system, at least for the minute...

Cheers,

Stefan

My reply was to the two year old post. Somehow, doing NDX -> nDac/XPS-2 seems silly.

I totally understand your concern around all those boxes. It is silly to have 3 boxes for a digital source.

When folks talk about how NDS is so awesome with a nice analog sound to it, I'd just rather go get a Turntable.

nds5 digital ndx digital the same through dac waste of your money buying ndx

The ND5 is holding back your 282, it deserves better. I'd go for the DAC, definitely. 

Or downgrade to the NaitXS and be happy. Too many boxes!

Thanks again, folks,

totemphile, it is great to see (in your pers. description) that you use AIFF in iTunes on MacBook Pro (exactly my plan, but I was unsure about AIFF). And great to see another naimie using the nDAC with the 555PS, although your streaming solution is different to mine.

To close the circle: In addition to system complexity, I somewhat resent the fact that the nDAC still requires its internal PSU when you power it externally (for good reasons, I know). Naim, please give me the V2-DAC with 1704 chips, iPod option, display and size of the V1, and full XPS upgradeability!

Cheers,

Stefan