Best way to use naim DAC ?
Posted by: pz on 01 February 2012
Hi Mates,
I would like to know on your opinion on the following:
What is the best way to use naim DAC to playback
mostly high resolution music files that are in FLAC format:
1. Using a network music player (naim or non naim)
streaming to DAC from PC or NAS.
2. Using a PC and an USB/SPDIF converter into DAC.
3. USB memory sticks to DAC. (Yes, a pain to use but sounds well...)
Unfortunately, I am not able to compare all the methods
so I would like to hear about your expreience.
Best regards,
Naim of course have their reasons for not providing general USB connectivity to their DAC. If they did, I would have been more interested in trying and possibly buying one.
It used to be DIN and BNC only connections on Naim amplifiers, but they have latterly provided RCA/phono sockets as an option, to presumably satisfy market demand. So why no USB connectivity option (even if Naim don't rate it) on their DAC?
Would that option not have made it a more complete product with wider appeal?
John.
You know my feelings on this, John. I think it is a blinkered approach. It is unfortunately a British trait to sometimes ignore your customers desires because you know best 
Peter Walker of Quad had a somewhat similar attitude. He resolutely believed that if an amp measured well then that was all that mattered, despite many subjectivists time after time suggesting there were significant differences.
No business can afford to ignore their customers. This is especially true in these ultra competitive times. Maybe the new owners will shake some sense into Salisbury.
Richard you are flogging a dead horse.
USB is old history now.
Stu
Naim of course have their reasons for not providing general USB connectivity to their DAC. If they did, I would have been more interested in trying and possibly buying one.
It used to be DIN and BNC only connections on Naim amplifiers, but they have latterly provided RCA/phono sockets as an option, to presumably satisfy market demand. So why no USB connectivity option (even if Naim don't rate it) on their DAC?
Would that option not have made it a more complete product with wider appeal?
John.
You know my feelings on this, John. I think it is a blinkered approach. It is unfortunately a British trait to sometimes ignore your customers desires because you know best Peter Walker of Quad had a somewhat similar attitude. He resolutely believed that if an amp measured well then that was all that mattered, despite many subjectivists time after time suggesting there were significant differences.
No business can afford to ignore their customers. This is especially true in these ultra competitive times. Maybe the new owners will shake some sense into Salisbury.
Richard you are flogging a dead horse.
USB is old history along with firewire now.
Turn your tv on at 4 in the morning/BBC News chan.
Look at whats coming from Japan/usa and other countries on the Tech section
Stu
Naim of course have their reasons for not providing general USB connectivity to their DAC. If they did, I would have been more interested in trying and possibly buying one.
It used to be DIN and BNC only connections on Naim amplifiers, but they have latterly provided RCA/phono sockets as an option, to presumably satisfy market demand. So why no USB connectivity option (even if Naim don't rate it) on their DAC?
Would that option not have made it a more complete product with wider appeal?
John.
You know my feelings on this, John. I think it is a blinkered approach. It is unfortunately a British trait to sometimes ignore your customers desires because you know best Peter Walker of Quad had a somewhat similar attitude. He resolutely believed that if an amp measured well then that was all that mattered, despite many subjectivists time after time suggesting there were significant differences.
No business can afford to ignore their customers. This is especially true in these ultra competitive times. Maybe the new owners will shake some sense into Salisbury.
Richard you are flogging a dead horse.
USB is old history now.
Stu
Really? What has replaced it?
USB is old history now.
Stu
Really? What has replaced it?
IMHO, integrated, networked solutions like the SB Touch, Sonos, and even the Naim UQ and SU have made USB connection a nice, backwards compatibility feature for those who still prefer PC-based audio, but that's all, and USB is certainly not the future. IMHO, the difficulties of setting of UPnP are often been grossly overstated (step 1, rip files to a NAS, step 2, turn on UPnP), and using an iPhone/iPad or laptop to remote control are a pleasure. Apple's AirPlay may even soon offer a viable alternative. At the last RMAF, I listened to a pair of Ovator 400's being driven by a SU, and controlled by an iPad. I came away with the belief that 99% of all music lovers could live happily with this setup for a very long time, and with no thoughts of upgrading. Hook
I must (with respect) profoundly disagree with you. I have experienced the above. I invested in UQ and a Netgear NAS equipped with uPNP. Firstly, I found it was NOT Apple compatible. Using the Naim supplied browser, which meant resurrecting an ancient Dell laptop was the most hopelessly non-intuitive device I have had the misfortune to use. After I got rid of it and returned to my MB and the included iTunes I was able to understand the fantastic growth of Apple. Now I have included BitPerfect icing has been added to the iTunes cake.
If you believe networking is the way forward (compared to USB) then you obviously have not been reading the many, many threads of folks asking for help. It is not just me. Outside the Naim fanboys (sorry, but nothing else comes to mind to describe such acolyte style system worship), there is a great swathe of audiophiles who demand simplicity together with an intuitive user interface.
Nothing, I mean nothing comes even close to Apple's iTunes. Please call me an Apple fan boy. I most definitely am and with justification.
The really great thing with using Apples's products is their superb user interface. I am typing this on my iPad whilst I control my MB using the free Apple Remote. To make things more interesting I have tapped on Genius Mixes (I have a dozen of them). This searches my music library for similar music and incredibly, it really does cut the mustard. I am in the Jazz mix and it is finding stuff I had forgotten I had. Wonderful.
You see, Mr Hook, it is the complete experience that matters. Not the plethora of boxes, proving one's bank balance (or lack of it after buying all the kit 
, but the total experience. I would give up listening if I had no choice but what I was enduring before I reverted to my MB.
Just my honest opinion. No offence intended. If you prefer a network based system using non-Apple devices, great. Just do not confuse wishful thinking with fact.
Richard
I must (with respect) profoundly disagree with you. I have experienced the above.
Your experience with UPnP and mine are obviously very different. I have a centralized NAS server that provides music to all of the network players in my home, as well as to my Naim NDX. It was easy to set up, it is easy to use and maintain, and has been 100% reliable.
I invested in UQ and a Netgear NAS equipped with uPNP. Firstly, I found it was NOT Apple compatible. Using the Naim supplied browser, which meant resurrecting an ancient Dell laptop was the most hopelessly non-intuitive device I have had the misfortune to use.
With respect, I think you are confusing two experiences here. The frustration you wrote about in your original thread was with the UnitiServe (not with the UnitiQute). You said in that thread that you could not get N-Serve to connect, that you hated the DTC (because it had not been ported to MacOS), and based on that, you decided to return the UnitiServe. This was all compounded by your dealer not being available during this time to sort you out before you decided to return it. I am not going to defend the US, as I do not own one, but I do not believe for a second that your unique US experience matches up well with the vast majority of US experiences (and that I have read about on this forum).
After I got rid of it and returned to my MB and the included iTunes I was able to understand the fantastic growth of Apple. Now I have included BitPerfect icing has been added to the iTunes cake.
I am glad that you found a solution for ripping and playing music that you enjoy.
If you believe networking is the way forward (compared to USB) then you obviously have not been reading the many, many threads of folks asking for help. It is not just me.
It is simply in the nature of audio forums that you read primarily about the problems people encounter. That's why most people post on forums -- they are looking solutions and advice -- so there is always going to be a disproportionate number of negative posts on pretty much any topic. The same is true of iTunes, Pure Music, Amarra, BP and so on, but it does not make them bad products.
Outside the Naim fanboys (sorry, but nothing else comes to mind to describe such acolyte style system worship), there is a great swathe of audiophiles who demand simplicity together with an intuitive user interface.
When I want to listen to music, I sit in my chair, grab my iPad and tap on N-Stream. It is easy to use, very simple and intuitive, and also very stable and reliable. I won't bore you with the rest of my UPnP setup, but I assure you that it works equally well for me.
Nothing, I mean nothing comes even close to Apple's iTunes. Please call me an Apple fan boy. I most definitely am and with justification.
I am glad you like it. I won't call you a fan boy, but I will remind you that this is simply your opinion. Others may prefer JRMC or MM or one of the PC-based software systems, and they are equally justified in their preferences.
The really great thing with using Apples's products is their superb user interface. I am typing this on my iPad whilst I control my MB using the free Apple Remote. To make things more interesting I have tapped on Genius Mixes (I have a dozen of them). This searches my music library for similar music and incredibly, it really does cut the mustard. I am in the Jazz mix and it is finding stuff I had forgotten I had. Wonderful.
Well, in this respect we are both similar and different. As I said above, I select my music using an iPad running N-Stream, much like you do running Remote on your iPad. I am glad you enjoy the Genius feature, but as I am strictly an Jazz album listener, I would never take advantage of it.
You see, Mr Hook, it is the complete experience that matters. Not the plethora of boxes, proving one's bank balance (or lack of it after buying all the kit , but the total experience. I would give up listening if I had no choice but what I was enduring before I reverted to my MB.
Well, then by all means please stick with your MacBook Richard. I really am glad that iTunes gives you the complete experience you want. If you feel that an MacBook and iTunes has saved you money versus the UQ, then that's good too.
By contrast, UPnP has worked best for me. As I said, it is the easiest way I have found to share a centralized music library among the people and UPnP capable players in my home. When I combine my non-Naim NAS, router, ripper and library manager, along with my Naim NDX and N-Stream, it is a very positive and complete audio experience for me.
Just my honest opinion. No offence intended. If you prefer a network based system using non-Apple devices, great. Just do not confuse wishful thinking with fact.
Richard
Great, now I'm not just a fanboy, but a delusional one? 
Network music is just wishful thinking? Well, I know for a fact that if you adopted it, you wouldn't have to worry about whether or not your Macbook's noise was perfectly galvanically isolated. After all, you never tell with those USB connections...
Hook
Jan-Erik:
That is not fair
Hook:
I believe there are many routes to audio nirvana. Just because we differ does not mean either of us is wrong. Let us agree to differ?
Bart:
I have been sitting thinking about my upgrade route. I might even, gosh, wait for it, try the SuperUniity. But will it sound any good if fed directly off my optical out of my MB? 
I have already admitted (confessed?) my hearing acuity is not as good as it once was. So would I notice the decline (if any) when using the SU? I really want simplicity. If the sonic advantages of my 250.2 are not that different, the SU might be sufficient.
Richard
Why? It doesn't have the connection you want.
You wont be using half of its purpose. Get a Supernait if you want to downscale.
Nothing, I mean nothing comes even close to Apple's iTunes. Please call me an Apple fan boy. I most definitely am and with justification.
iTunes is the lowest common denominator, just like any other phenomenon in pop culture.
It really only exists for those who either a) ONLY have Macs, b) cant be troubled to learn a little about the other options.
-Patrick
Or those who are:
- happy with it.
- more concerned with other aspects of the replay chain that actually matter.
- not worried about the "geek cred" aspect of it iTunes being mainstream - it does the job.
For someone who insists they are not concerned with being anti-Apple Patrick, I'd hate to see it when you become obsessed.
Why? It doesn't have the connection you want.
You wont be using half of its purpose. Get a Supernait if you want to downscale.
Thank you, Patrick. Good advice. However having read and absorbed J.N.'s private Email to me, I will be doing nothing for the time being.
I will live in hope that something will come out of the Salisbury hat. Fingers crossed.
Richard
I will live in hope that something will come out of the Salisbury hat. Fingers crossed.
Richard, are you hoping for Naim to release a UpNP player for the Mac environment, i.e. a solution over Ethernet, or plain Airplay capabilities?
We know Airplay is bound to come, Paul mentioned it, fixed integration over Ethernet would be lovely though...
Best
tp
Or those who are:
- happy with it.
- more concerned with other aspects of the replay chain that actually matter.
- not worried about the "geek cred" aspect of it iTunes being mainstream - it does the job.
For someone who insists they are not concerned with being anti-Apple Patrick, I'd hate to see it when you become obsessed.
I am definitely far from "anti-Apple". The iPhone is one of the best devices EVER made. I have keyboards and mice and iPads etc.... iOS is worthy of a nobel prize.
I dont however like the Mac OS that much, but could get used to it (again).
iTunes though is a different story. It ONLY exists as a portal for you to buy media from Apple. Period. So they have only developed it to that end. There are simply too many "doesn't" items on the list. FLAC, auto sample rate switching, interface customization, robust tagging database, replay gain, stream videos and photos to any dlna device, multiple unique streams, speed, proper secure ripping.
Look I used it for years and come up against it all the time.
Give a phone call to my Mac buddy who just dedicated an old windows laptop for media along with J River Media Center. Daughter streams to her room, Dad listens in Living, Kitchen and Backyard... all different streams and types of media. He is LOVING life.
everyone has used iTunes. How many of you have tried a full fledged media server in PC world?
It is too bad you wont try anything new.
Good luck to you though!
Patrick
I will live in hope that something will come out of the Salisbury hat. Fingers crossed.
Richard, are you hoping for Naim to release a UpNP player for the Mac environment, i.e. a solution over Ethernet, or plain Airplay capabilities?
We know Airplay is bound to come, Paul mentioned it, fixed integration over Ethernet would be lovely though...
Best
tp
uPNP? Ethernet? Absolutely not!
My thoughts were around the possibility that they would release something along the lines of the nDAC, but with a volume control. Speaking for myself, I only want a single digital input, preferably USB. But if not USB, then an optical Sp/Dif fed from the optical out of my MB.
I will never again use uPNP. I tried it, it was a disaster of the first order. Funnily enough I now have an external four bay pro quality Raid 5 capable drive. I have backed up my iTunes to it, but it is mainly to serve my DVD's to my iPad via a nice little App called Air Video. Like all Apple approved devices it was simple to set up and, well, just works. I believe this device uses Airplay or similar, but not just for sound but high quality video too.
I love technology that works?
Richard