First name or surname first? A query about n-Stream

It uses the first letter of the artist string to sort.

Whilst I like to browse record stores in strict alphabetical order, I actually don't find the different order a problem when using the NDX, and would find it a bit of a PITA to modify each artist string when ripping.

If you want to see how the library will show up on the NDX install Media Monkey onto your PC. Not only is this excellent for manipulating tags it also allows you to view the UPNP server by expanding the media servers node on the tree.  What you will see here is exactly how nStream will display it as the client just displays what the server is pushing out.

This should keep you busy until your NDX arrives!

Richard

Thanks to both of you.  That's the information I needed to sort out how I'm going to tag the music files.  Think I'll have to do a bit of heavy modification to my classical music collection rips.  I like to file them under Composer, then piece (Symphony 1, opus no etc) and lastly by artist.  I'm sure I can sort that out for myself.

All a bit anal, I know, but that's the way I am about some things.  The same used to apply before I retired, when I used to set out my work surface so I could lay my hands on anything instantaneously - best way to have it when things were going pear-shaped and the patient was very ill.

To be honest, on my LP/CD shelves, for the non-classical discs, I arrange by Artist Surname, then discs in order of release.  I can live with them being in alphabetical order on my streamer, and for album titles, "A Hard Day's Night" I would leave as it is and expect to find it before "Beatles For Sale".  After all, how many artists do I have vast numbers of albums by? 

As a sidebar, I find it quite intriguing (sp?) that my 2 "The The" CDs have ripped with artist tag "The, The", when I did not modify the dBpoweramp settings at all!  That is one instance where it wouldn't have mattered to me!  But then the default tags on the dBpoweramp tips also come up with "Beatles, The" and "Who, The", so I shouldn't be surprised.

And for quite some time after!

I know this doesn't strictly answer your question but it might be food for thought.

Working for a record company the christian name or surname first question has always been a bit of a conundrum as everyone sees it differently.  For example the catalogue for our main distribution  centre uses the Christian name first, yet int our local system both options were used.  When we finally rationalised our system we went for Christian name first to be in synch with our DC. 

This was my suggestion as, after a long period of using Surname first, I realised the merits of using Christian name first.

- Firstly it negates the need to have one set of criterion for a band and one for a solo artist. For eg you would never file Porcupine Tree under Tree, Porcupine would you?  So why should Bruce Springsteen be filed Springsteen, Bruce?

- Secondly artists like Lloyd Cole who've fronted a band (Lloyd Cole & The Commotions) and also had a solo career are now both filed under L.  Previously LLoyd Cole & The Commotions would have been filed under L while Cole, Lloyd would have been filed under C.

While this may work for popular music, I agree that a different methodology is required for classical music, where Composer: Work - Artist(s) appears to be the standard.  Funnily enough all our classical retailers only work with catalogue numbers - they never ask for Barenboim conducting the Berlin Philharmonic performing Beethoven's 5the Symphony, they simply ask for the catalogue number so their can be no mistake as to what they are asking for.

Good post, and of course many popular music artists use stage names anyway, so the concept of Christian name and surname is probably moot.

Simon

I'm just adjusting the tags so that hopefully the list will be presented in the order I am used to.  I realise that we all have different preferences, but I'm still going to try for the sorting I personally prefer.  How good are these bulk id3 changer programs?  I think I'll give myself RSI if I edit manually every one of the discs I have already ripped, and am seriously debating deleting them and starting over but doing it with the tags set to how I prefer.

I use the album artist tag, and have this surname then first name, - Presley, Elvis.

In the artist tag, I have the name displayed normally, - Elvis presely.

In N stream when I search using album artiist, this allows me to search by surname which is easier, but the artists names appear correct on the display of my unitiqute an on n stream, which seem to pick up the artist tag.

+1 with McGhie here: I guess it depends on your UPnP server.

It might be more confusing than of any help, but I suggest you have a look at this page from the Squeeze wiki. (If you use a HDX or a UnitiServe, this information is most probably irrelevant; I'm not sure, but I'm hoping that the Naim servers know how to send the detailed information from their Naim Extended Music Database to the Naim streamers...)

Even if a bit outdated, it shows how the then Squeeze Server now Logitech Media Server understands tags, but more interesting it gives a correlation between ID3v2 tags (for, say, MP3 files) and Vorbis comments tags (for FLAC).

Note that Vorbis comments tags are free-form (you can define yours, i.e. PURCHASEDATE for instance; and you can have multiple instances of the same tag), so here it shows which ones Logitech Media Server understands, and with which ID3 tag(s) it corresponds. YMMV with other UPnP servers.

You can see that Vorbis comments can be used for sorting (here ARTISTSORT or ALBUMSORT for instance; don't ask why there isn't any ALBUMARTISTSORT...). So you could have:

ARTIST="Elvis Presley"

ARTISTSORT="Presley, Elvis"

ALBUM="The 2012 Comeback Special"

ALBUMSORT="2012 Comeback Special, The"

For file formats that use ID3v2 (.3 or .4) tags, a similar mechanism can be used but beware that the same tags can be used for different purpose depending on which software reads or writes them. For instance, TPE2 is defined in v2.3 as (according to Wikipedia; shame, but I didn't double-check) "Band/orchestra/accompaniment" but is (was?) used for album artist in the Squeeze/Logitech Server. It's somewhat better in ID3v2.4 where explicit tags are defined for sorting (TSOA/TSOP/TSOT), but this version is still not properly supported in Windows twelve years later, go figure.

So, depending on your UPnP server, and provided you use a tagging software that allows you to populate -- or create -- the right tags, then you can have the best of both worlds: artists or album displayed for readability (Elvis Presley) but sorted to your convenience (under P; note that it can be a bit confusing to read a list of artists sorted by their family name but displayed as first_name last_name...).

As an aside, it is what iTunes allows you to do, using it's own proprietary XML metadata for sorting. Sadly, it does not populate this information back into the corresponding ID3v2.4 tags (not in MP3 files at least as far as I know according to my own experience; don't know for AAC/ALAC/AIFF).

Feeling dizzy ? You bet.

It's official: CD is dead. Dead simpler, that is.

HTH

Maurice

As already recommended - I would strongly recommend Asset UPnP as media server too. That allows you all way of sorting. Including Album by Artist directly shown with cover art like the standard album sorted list. And you are able to exclude like "the" etc. in your sorting. And also very helpful: it always shows you a single album for "best", "geatest hits" etc. by artists without mixing that up. You can also show the songnumber in your songlist within the album.