(Squeezebox Touch + nDac) vs. (CD5XS + Flatcap) vs. ND5XS

Does the ND5XS beat the CD5X + FlatCap option?

FWIW, in my system, currently, SBT and Mac Mini are neck-and-neck into bare nDAC, and nearly equal to my CD5x / FC2X.  Close enough, maybe.  Still trying different interconnects; better yet to arrive.

Nick

@Nick: Did you get a chance to listen to the ND5XS yet? Maybe I'll repost this thread in the main HiFi section, since we're not dealing with streaming problems. :-)

Dear MangoMonkey,

I am in a similar situation and in the end decided to buy the ND5XS which will be delivered this Monday. My findings below and on https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...1295368076312/page/3

Iver

Hi guys,

As amplified when starting this thread, I have been doubting the last few weeks what the next upgrade to my current system would be. Current systems is around a 152xs/150xs/FCxs with a North Star Essensio, all fed by a Squeezebox Touch. Speakers are Epos Epic 5. Demo-listening, reading and this excellent forum, resulted in a short list of either a MacMini with Naim nDac, or to purchase the ND5xs. Today I was able to intensively listen to both options using my own music and with almost a similar set up as I have myself. The dealer is Van Duppen in the Netherlands who did an excellent job. Budget allocated is some € 3.750. The criteria that I used were a.) sound quality b.) comfort of use , and c.) how well and balanced the new gear would fit in my current set up, also bearing in mind that I am very happy with the "XS series SQ - level" and have no plans of migrating to Classic gear in the near future. On paper the MacMini/nDac has the advantage of adding an extra facility for editing photos and playing videos, apart from being a qualitative streaming option. All gear had extensively ran in.

The first half hour I listened to the ND5xs. From the start the player impressed my with very good stereo-placing and very good sound staging. Both were a lot better than what I am used in my current set up. Bass was very well pronounced and a lot of "air" in vocals. Most impressive was the ease of delivering music. I feel this very difficult to explain, but it is like the ND5xs has tons of power left, so easy and smooth it delivers music. From a practical perspective, I found the ND5xs very quick in response and in  finding tracks on the NAS. The display is too small for a good read from some 3 meters. The nStream app is very simple in features, but works well.

Swapping to the nDac, it brought more detail. Image and focus were also better. Strangly, I felt the ND5xs had more punch and was more direct. Again, I was enormously impressed on how easily the system delivered. It is very obvious the ND5xs and nDac are family, since the colour and rhythm of the sound is very similar. We listened to the nDac through a UnitiServe. Controlling was through the nServe app which is way better featured than the nStream app. Didn't know that the difference was so big. The amount of info and facilities on the nServe is huge.

I listened and compared for another 2 hours. The nDac is in almost all aspects better than the ND5xs but in all cases I felt these differences were very little. In terms of punch and presence I thought the ND5 to be slighlty better. I'd like to emphasize that I concluded the above in context of the other equipment, being all XS series. So in the end I ordered the ND5 which will be "in da house" next monday. I thought the differences were just to small justifying the extra budget for the nDac/MacMini Now I had some budget left to purchase the HighLine plus 4 sound-absorbing-units to cover some reflections in my home acoustics.

In the end, dealer demo-ed the XP5 power supply to the ND5. This was definately and upgrade in sound stage, more detail and punch. Something to dream about :-)

Cheers,Iver

ND5XS gets my vote.

Iver you will have the same naim boxes as me so congratulations.  I think the XS range rocks!  I also tried the XP5 power supply but felt that the improvement did not justify the extra cost (for the moment at least).

Dear Totemphile,

I think you are correct. I listened to the ND5xs when the dealer added the XP5. It brings extra in terms of more detail, better staging and more dynamics (amps we 152/150/FCxs), though not so much as I would expect for the price. Given the price of the nDac isn't far away from the XP5xs, I agree the nDac is the more obvious upgrade.

Cheers,

Iver

With all respect, but the above advice is nonsense. The nDAC was upgraded using the chip of the ND5 XS. The nDAC is no upgrade for the Nd5XS. Like it or not.

What??  Then why are people HAPPILY using it with an NDX?  The nDAC has been around far longer than the ND5XS, with all due respect.

Exactly. This is why both the current Ndx  and nDAC models are equipped with the newer Nd5 chip. 

again.... what?  the NDX and nDAC have been upgraded?  I spend a fair amount of time in here and haven't read anything about that

Source: HIFIDIGITAL 2/2012 page 24. It's a German audio magazine.

and it says.........?

Anyway, the DAC chips are only a tiny part of the equation.

Are you saying the nDAC is no longer an upgrade to the NDX or ND5XS?

.... that the NDX now features the circuit board of he ND5. And that Naim had been in quite a fix because of the fact that the original NDX had been outpowerd by the ND5.

you lost me. 

circuit boards (which ones), DAC chips... which it is?

I'm not a techie. Maybe Phil can enlighten us. 

now you admit that....

You kidding me? I think three machines are bad enough. I might just get the ND5XS + Nait XS and trade the flat cap in, getting me down to two machines. Didn't you see the thread with the guy who had something like 20 machines? Some people might aspire to that, but with all due respect, I don't want to go there. If I ever get tempted for a fourth box, I'll just get a SuperUniti and call it a day. Like discussed in a different thread, you get used to it all anyway.

Sorry but you are confusing things. Yes the streaming board of the ND5XS was of a newer type and brought the performance of the ND5XS very close to the first generation NDX. One of the reasons was that the older streaming board was not designed for 24/192 native on board streaming, it was limited to 24/96. The DAC chip in the nDAC is a different thing altogether and it is superior to that used in the ND5XS and that used in the NDX. Even though the DAC chip used in the NDX is based on the nDAC IC circuit it does not quite equal it. Then there is the whole issue of the DSP. Bottom line? The nDAC remains the top digital to analogue source in the Naim hierarchy and has only now been surpassed by the NDS. It remains a clear upgrade both for the ND5XS and NDX.

No, I am not kidding you. I only mentioned it because pixies contemplated to upgrade his ND5XS with an XP5XS. If that were the case, than all I was saying was that the nDAC would be the better upgrade. Same number of boxes, +1. 

Other than that, each to their own... live and let live mate, you may not want 20 boxes, neither do I, but rest assured his active system sounds a whole lot better than your two box solution.

True that.

I use UQ into nDac, this sounds amazing and there is no temptation to change the UQ for the nd5xs. Amps used are the 152/155xs with flatcap powering the inputs 1 and 2 on the 152. Picked up the UQ and nDac ex dem from my local naim dealer, total spent £2590.00 bargin!

Home auditioning the nDac this week. I feel that the Squeezebox is the weak link (no surprise),but so much so that it doesn't make sense to spend the money on the nDac. Plus even if it is not, I'll continue to have the nagging suspicion that it is, so no point. :-)

Next week, I'll get the ND5XS home, and compare it to a flatcapped CD5XS. Winner stays.