(Squeezebox Touch + nDac) vs. (CD5XS + Flatcap) vs. ND5XS

MangoMonkey, I do have a Squeezebox Touch fronting my nDAC and loving it, so don't let the price tag fools you. Yes, the Touch have its limits, but hey, there's room for improvement everywhere. And starting by adding a nice DAC like the nDAC in the equation is surely a step forward.

Bye.

...in the end, did someone tested SBtouch+nDAC vs ND5XS, same system same room? 

that's what I'm interested in...

I'll be borrowing the ND5XS next week, so will let you guys know.

It's really nice, I agree, but it feels like the nDac is being wasted.

I'm not questioning what you hear: It could be my system, my PC, my network, but I really am not inclined to debug any of this.

It obviously depends on my next week's audition, but if the ND5XS pans out, I figure the nDac is a nice eventual upgrade to the ND5XS, but I would rather get the ND5XS first and then the nDac rather than the other way around. 

Have only heard the Qute, so far, but not in my system.  CD5X / FC2X is my system benchmark, at the moment.  SBT and Mac are both close enough now that the SQ penalty is near zero for the added convenience vs CD.

Be sure to try the SBT (or any other digital sources) into the BNC on the nDAC if you haven't already: seriously better than RCA into the DAC, even with a homemade $9 RCA to BNC cable (thanks to Vetco in Bellevue, since you are a neighbor) .

Nick

The Rega Dac sounds better going into a NaitXS from my squeezebox at this point, once I take the flatcap out.

Not sure how much chance an ND5XS has of panning out if, in fact, your system, PC, or network are flawed.  No doubt the ND5XS form factor trumps multi-box alternatives, even if its SQ is no better than what you currently have.  I cannot enthusiastically advocate your spending any more money if fixing possible infrastructure issues is not worth the effort, to you.  (I am not suggesting it SHOULD be; only, in that case, why bother with any of this hobby?)

While you have the nDAC on home demo, be sure to baseline with lossless WAV files on a USB thumb:  if SQ is LOTS better than other inputs into the nDAC, the others have untapped potential.  The more I have fixed problems, the closer my average SBT and Mac performance get to pure USB.

Of course, the ND5XS does USB thumbs too.  Not everybody loves using this capability; but it sure does the baseline test well!  If WAV on USB thumb sounds bad, in either the nDAC or the ND5XS, it might be time to do something entirely different.  You might have a bad sample (see Harry on the 552.)

I will be interested to know what you decide to do.

Regards,

Nick

So I moved everything to a smaller toom with better acoustics with smaller studio monitor speakers.

My opinion right now? The SBT is holding it's own when I use a coax to bnc cable. :-)

When I said I didn't want to debug it, I really meant I don't think there's much room for further improvement. I've got a Windows7 machine with tons of RAM and a i7 quad core processor running with an airport extreme as a router, all connected with a gigabit network. If this isn't enough, don't want to debug further.

You're right about the hobby part though. To a certain degree, it's about trying to get to the NDX level performance while using the SBTouch that's the fun part. :-)

Hi guys,

Just a quick update from my side. Today my dealer Van Duppen came to me to help installing my new ND5xs and do a full check up of my system and room acoustics. It was his suggestion to spend the Sunday afternoon so we had plenty of time. I have highly appreciated this. Bare in mind he stayed some 5 hrs with no cost related to it !!

The ND5xs installs itself realy quickly and easy. We have spent time to do some tuning and tweaking and connect the other digital sources I have like a Digital TV box, a Dune Blue Ray and the Airport Express. The dealer also did complete cable dressing and checking of power phasing. He also had my listening to various power cords and power blocks that he had with him. In the end, I choose Nordost powerblocks and powerlines and a real stunning Nordost interconnect which was "tweaked" with Din connectors.

First listening to the ND5xs impressed again like it did last week. The system is now running in, so a definite conclusion is probably for within 2 weeks, but the results sofar look very promising. If you could call it a disadvantage, the only one to mention is how impressive high res sounds making you want everything to be high res :-)

As per request, my dealer also brought some absorbsion boards to improve the acoustics, sinve my living room has very large windows and a lot of plain walls causing reflections. Here I was really impressed: adding some of the boards on 3 strategic places gave me more improvement I got with adding a FlatCap or upgrade interlinks ! Until today, I had no idea how much room acoustics can affect sound quality. The boards are still with me for testing so I can play around with them so I can place final order (shape and colour) next week. The boards have a total investment of some € 400, which I found really worthwhile.

We also intensily talked about my future plans where he convinced me that Ovator 400 might be a better investment than to save for the XP5/nDac. However that is stuff for later and to be auditioned of course.

So my SqueezeBox Touch, its PowerSupply and the North Star Essensio are on sale now :-)

One thing I hope Naim will change in the future are the digital inputs on the ND5xs: it has 2 Coaxial and 1 Tosslink. Lots of 3rd party gear (like my Dune, AE and DigiBox) have TossLink outputs. The Nd5 has inly one Tosslink, so I am lacking 2. I think a lot of gear has Tosslink outs, so I'd expect more Tosslink inputs on the streamer.

By the way: does anyone know how to easily/cheap "translate" Tosslink into Coaxial ? Are there connectors or cables available on the market ?

Today I was part of a few happy things: an excellent dealer with excellent services and suggestions, and an excellent streamer that balances very well in my system.

Happy smile on my face !

Cheers, Iver!  Sounds like a good result and a fun day.  

Of course, Naim will be happy to sell you as many nDACs as necessary to meet your Toslink needs.  

Nick

I'm really glad that things worked out for you. Enjoy !

I'll be auditioning the ND5XS next week. I think the outlay on the nDac isn't justified if I'm going to be using the Squeezebox Touch as a transport.  

You should keep the squeezebox touch for spotify. Sell the powersupply.

regarding my note on to many "Toslink sources" and only 1 Toslink input on the ND5XS, I think I have found a solution: searching for Toslink to Coax converters, I found various connectors who do the job costing some € 20.

Issue solved I suspect

Here is a sample picture:  http://www.allekabels.nl/Optis...h-naar-Coaxiaal.html

I picked up a used cd5xs. In my system, i like it more than the sbt feeding an ndac. The cd player feeding the ndac is diferent. Sharper sounding, more detailed, etc. But coming back to the cd5xs is very very relaxing. Not planning on demoing thend5xs any more. 

Which interconnects have you tried (eg, between Mac Mini and Naim DAC), and which did you prefer?

I´m demoing nDAC on loan from dealer.  IMO, the USB pen drive feeding WAV files into nDAC (+XPS) is outstanding (aprox. CDS-2 - 3 level).  The ND5 XS using outboard nDAC (+XPS) is nice but not in the same league (between CDX1 and 2, IMHO).  Still experimenting.

Mango

How did the SBT analogue outputs compare to the Rega Dac.

I agree with your point that the nDac is over the top when used with front end such as a SBT. It's very good with a budget front end, but needs something better show it's full potential.

the sbt analogue output is very good indeed, when I power the $200 AudioEngine active speakers. $450, and you have a nice system at your hands. 

I know someone here is running sbtouch analogue into a Nait XS, but I fail to see the point.

Here's the issue as I see it, specially for folks of the Naim/Rega types:

a) we like the 'house' sound. You don't get the Naim/Rega  'house' sound from the sbt.

b) Into a naim system, I feel that even having the sbt analogue outs plugged in into the NaitXS will bring down the quality of your Naim CD player. yes. really. That's the only reason I still have the rega dac: to isolate the naim system from the sbt by putting a pastic optical cable in the middle.

Here's my idea of an excellent budget system: Rega dac into a Brio-R into the Rega RS1s/RS3s/Totem Arros. You just won't that get that with the sbt analogue. It might sound ok, if you're into listening for the sounds. But where's the prat, where's the prat. And isn't that the whole point of a naim based system? Without that, just go buy an arcam. It'll 'sound' righter, but feel all wrong.

Steven

One thing to remember when doing these tests is right now the weakest link in this chain is the digital interconnect cables. Since you are comparing the USB input of the nDAC to an S/PDIF input you must take into account the effects of the S/PDIF interface. People, very naively think that it is all 1s and 0s but I can do the demo very easily the effects of different digital cable, simply by improving the cable the SQ improves and in some cases quite dramatically but at a price.. Of course the USB does not have these issues but the down side is with the nDAC, you cannot stream your music to it other then connecting it via S/PDIF to a suitable streaming solution, in this case the ND5XS. Using a  USB stick is like using a CD. It´s physical media only more 21st century!

Now if you want all the SQ benefits of the nDAC and more and you want to stream your music, then the solution is quite obvious now, the NDS. On top of this, you already have the XPS so would only require the NDS head unit.

Having heard the NDS for the first time last weekend at Bristol, I can honestly tell you it is superior to the nDAC, simply stunning as my good mate Gerry McG heard for himself and has promptly decided to trade his nDAC for the NDS.

The good news is though that you can appreciate the differences in these products as we saw the other week.

All the best

Gordon

I am the one running the analogue signal of a SBT into a Nait XS. I had DacMagic in the line before, but have removed it. I like it a lot better since then.

I know I am being a spoil, but I simply cannot appreciate the benefits of expensive external DACs. 

pink,

get the rega dac.  money.

-p

At this point, I'm kind of the same opinion. There is just too much loss at the interface of the optical out and the optical in. I've gone back to spinnng CDs for now. Might get the ND5XS later, if I like the Naim sound.

Hmmm I would step up to defend the SBT to be honest.   I think it does a really good job and is not totally out of its depth with the NDAC.   Care must be taken to power it, place it, and shut down a load of the un-needed apps that it runs as per many on-line articles.  This box has got me enjoying digital more than I have done in years. 

I run the SBT in my second system, NDAC - Nait 2 and a pair of Kans which while not being the last word in resolution has a brilliant trait of getting to the heart of the music.   I've been playing with the following experiments:

1. SBT via optical (TCI Coral)

2. SBT via coax (BNC adapter to van damme BNC cable)

3. a data stick in the NDAC

The out and out winner is 3,  mainly for additional nuances in the bass but to be frank there is not much in it in this system. 

1 and 2 both had merits with the coax having more balls and drive but at the expense of a bit more hash.   I then realised that as I run PCs to my DAC as well having these connected by coax needed to come out of the equation.   Taking these out so only optical into the NDAC was very worthwhile.  

I could then clearly hear diferences with our without chassis ground at the NDAC end.   Now sounding close enough to data sticks for me.

So I have ended up with all optical connect via the coral interconnect, with chasis ground on the DAC.  Sounds better than my old CD5x 

Got me interested enough to connect the whole lot to my main rig at some point.

Fozz

I took another shot at optimizing the SBT last weekend. I've now got it running into the Rega Dac and it sounds totally sublime. The one final change I made that I had never made before was to tell it shut the screen off while music was playing. Sold my CD5XS a couple of weeks after buying it. I'm happy now.

Just curious: how long was the running in time for the ND5XS/nDac?

My dealers runs the ND5XS mostly with the external powersupply, so not sure if it's really burnt in, if I decide to go borrow it from him.

I had not spotted that option, cheers, even more musical with that off.    The SBT is very capable player.

Fozz, try this: http://soundcheck-audio.blogsp...ouch-toolbox-30.html