Streaming Audio Newbie

Simple things to get NDS going

1. A PC
2. To rip CD’s to harddisk. Dbpoweramp or EAC – they call the rips bitperfect, an exact replica of the CD bit for bit. Save the rips as WAV or FLAC format (all uncompressed format). It should sound the same, but the wav files sounds way better to my ears
3. A uPnP server (Asset uPnP), this software is installed on the PC. It sole purpose is to transfer the files that you have ripped to the NDS (it’s streams the file to your NDS, that’s why is called the streamer). NDS is the streaming client.
4. A wire/wireless network in your place which is connected to the internet. NDS works best when there is a connection to the internet.
5. An optional IPAD to use the Naim’s IPad/Ipod/Iphone application which control the playback, song selections, playlist of the NDS.
6. A huge harddisk to place your ripped songs. There are plenty of choices like QNAP, Synology, Drobo to achieve redundancy which is another story by it’s own.

The items above are no means exhaustive. Details of how to set those items up to work together are beyond the realm of typing.

Head to any Naim shops, they would be more than willing to help you to get your NDS working.

I hope the brief essentials are at least helpful to you.

Enjoy the “journey”

Some of these words sounds "greek" to me, but I think I understand.

Thank you very much, shing..

greek or geek? 

just kidding, good explain shing

A Unitiserve might fit your requirements well,  It would take shings shopping list down to items 4 and 5

Richard

@shing: what a wonderfull job to write down such a good overview. I am lucky to have a more than fair understanding of pc's and network, so can manage my own way, but for a lot of people it is probably abacadabra (to my opinion still an open opportunity for the industry to make these things easier to understand)

@Neil. In the BeNeLux there stores specialized in streaming, meaning the sell exactly what you need in a package. They also install and test the stuff at your home against very reasonable prices

Hi Neil,

I shall try to give you a clou of what this is all about and how to approach the topic.

It is all about playing FILES on the stereo opposed to vinyl, tapes or CDs. Even though CD also contain digital material, this is not in the form of a file and it is bound to the physical format of the CD.

Playing a file over the stereo can be achieved in various ways, The most obvious is to connect the PC to the amp. In between must be a D/A/C, a Digital to Analouge Converter. This can be the sound card in your computer, an external device  (key word: USB DAC; a DAC being fed via a USB cable from a PC) or a DAC, which is built into the amp (e.g. Supernait).

It is also possible to store music files on USB sticks or USB hard drives. This can then be connected to all sorts of devices for playback. All of this is not streaming, however.

Streaming requires a network. The core of a home network is a Router. The router coordinates and interconnects the devices which are connected to the network and renders access to the internet.

Audio streaming means that a streaming client (the Streamer) accesses an audio file via the network. This file may be stored on a PC, a Laptop, a USB drive which is plugged into the router (newer routers only) or a NAS. A NAS is a Network Attached Storage device. Originally this was just a a device containing magnetic hard discs. Nowadays a NAS also contains a small computer, which can come in handy for running a server software. I will come back to this later.

Next you need a control point in order to select your music and to tell the streamer which music to play. There are multiple solutions in order to realize a control point. Remember, we are in a network environment. The most simple is that the streamer itself has operating buttons and a display. Very straight forward but not very comfortable. The other solution is to control the streamer via the network. This may be a controller software on the PC or a so called App (application = small programm) on a mobile Apple device (iPhone, iPod, iPad). These devices are usually connected to the network via WLAN (Wireless Local Area Network, as opposed to LAN via (Patch)cable) which needs to be supported and provided by your router.

The software which links the control point and the streamer is the Server Software. Within this server you define the location of the the music library and you can make a hell of a lot of other settings which I will omit for now. This server software may run on a PC. The downside of which is that this PC needs to be turned on when you want to listen to your music. An alternative is that the server is run on the small processor within the NAS, which one usually has anyway, when operating a network. Depending on where the NAS is located it is important to watch out for fanless operation (e.g. if it is located in or near the lounge).

So much for now. Next comes the topic of ripping, codecs and tagging. ... maybe tomorrow.

Hope this helps for starters.

oldneil,

The easiest way for you to get started would be to either buy a RipNAS or UnitiServe, to rip and archive your CDs. If money is not too much of an issue than I would go for a UnitiServe and opt for an all Naim solution. Alternatively, a RipNAS does the job just as well, it uses dbPoweramp, possibly the best ripping software on the market. Both options are nice and simple, you just slot in a CD, and these units will rip it for you, get the artwork from the Internet, add tags, the whole lot. You don't need to worry about anything, i.e. no messing around with a PC. Depending on how many CDs you want to rip a 1 TB version might suit you just fine, that's about 1200 CDs ripped to a lossless format such as WAV or FLAC. Both RipNAS and the UnitiServe allow you to store all ripped CDs locally on the internal hard drive of these units. The benefit being, you don't need to mess around with a typical NAS (network attached storage) and integrate it into your network. Both RipNAS and UnitiServe are of a fairly small size and esthetically pleasing to the eye, so they can be kept in the audio room, rather than stored away in some corner. One thing to note though, if you want to get into downloading hires music a 1TB UnitiServe will not allow you to save those on its internal hard drive. These will need to be saved some place else, such as a dedicated NAS or on your PC. 

If on the other hand you think this streaming stuff is all quite interesting and you would like to find out more about how to go about it, you could easily turn your PC into a music server and save yourself quite a bit of money. All you would need to do is download a ripping software such as dbPoweramp to rip your CDs and download a UPnP server software to serve any files to the NDS. Asset UPnP server gets very good reviews from people here on the forum and would be a very good choice. RipNAS uses amongst other servers also Asset UPnP.

Good luck

tp

Neil, If you want to proceed in steps, a UnitiServe, as others have mentioned, might be a great idea. That is what I have, and it has done two big things for me.  First, it's gotten me ripping all of my cd's onto it's hard drive and listening to my music collection using an iPhone app -- I have access to hundreds of cd's instantly, without even getting up from the kitchen table   Second, I've learned a lot about the options for more complicated music streaming to where, now, I would feel comfortable with a more "advanced" (some would say) and more complicated solution such as an NDX or the new NDS (which require an external, hard-drive based unit (a Mac Mini, or Vortexbox, or NAS) for storing the music, whereas it's built in to the UnitiServe).

I didn't know anything about music streaming when I put together my hi fi system last year, and the choices of Mac vs NAS vs etc etc etc were too daunting for me.  The UnitiServe has been 100% easy and foolproof and great sounding for me.  Baby steps . . .

Hi Neil

I was in a similar position to you about 6 months ago, with a much loved CDS3 and a Naim system.

If you only want to rip your CDs and replay them through a Naim streamer, then a chat with your friendly Naim dealer about a Unitiserve + a Naim streamer would be a very sensible place to start.  In comparison with other options, it is expensive but excellent & bombproof.

However, I also wanted to send all the ripped music to our family's numerous Apple devices, which led me into the more complex world of NAS drives, dedicated PCs running WIndows Home Server and Apple's mac mini instead of the Unitiserve.  This route is more complex than a Unitiserve, but more flexible.

So, if you only want to replay the music through a Naim system, go for a Unitiserve (or possibly HDX).  Viable alternatives at a considerably lower expense would be the Ripnas or Vortexbox products.  Both are used by and recommended by a number of forum members.

For the more flexible approach you then have to choose broadly between a Windows Home Server/Windows PC approach or an Apple mac/mac mini approach.  Either can be made to work well and there are strongly, passionately expressed preferences in favour of each.

If you opt for the Windows approach (I'm leaving Linux out of this to avoid confusion), then people get great results when ripping their CDs with dBpoweramp software.  There is consensus that this is among the best ripping software.  Fortunately, you can then replay the music using Asset UPnP software, which comes from the same company.

If you store all this music on a PC or laptop, then it has to be on whenever you want to play music.  For this reason, many people opt for a media PC and an intelligent NAS drive, which contains the hard drives to store the music + a processor to control & serve to music files to your preferred streamer such as the NDS/NDX/ND5.  Or, for far less money, they just buy a Vortexbox, which is also a very sensible and affordable way to get going.

Matching the sound quality of your CDS3 is not so easy.  A Unitiserve + NDS would be a safe starting point.  Some on this forum have swapped their CDS3 for a media pc + Naim DAC with 555PS and are happy with the results.

There are a number of threads on this Streaming forum about getting started, setting up a mac mini + NAS drive + Naim DAC for streaming music, Naim streamers versus ndac, itunes versus other software for managing your music files etc..  Many are quite involved but also informative.

Hope this helps

Best regards, FT

An HDX might be in order given the level of computer proficiency involved.

It does everything.  No computers required. No NAS, No upnp servers.  And it would be great in front of any of the Naim digi range in the future.

-Patrick

Thank you all for wise answers. I think I understand a little bit  more now..

But, what is the easiest solution if I just want to download hi-rez flac/waw files on my computer ?

I can still use the CDS3 to play my old CDs.

I'm probably not much more experienced than you in the field of downloads and streaming.

I believe the limitation with downloading to your pc and it's subsequent storage is the size of the downloaded files, particularly hi def. WAV and FLAC files. Hence as well as a decent DAC you'll eventually want a high capacity storage device i.e. NAS.

Storage issues apart the simplest solution is where I am now.

pc(or Mac)via player software>DAC(may require SPDIF convertor)>audio system

I use a Mac Book Pro with Fidelia software player into M2Tech SPDIF convertor(BNC to BNC cable) into nDAC into NAIM audio system. Fortunately I have a CX2.2 so can use the nDAC  for this too when playing CD's.

Apologies to the experts if this sounds a bit obvious and simplistic.

Neil

I think you need the help of a good dealer to set this up for you, which you should get when/if you buy the NDS. Even though what you want to do should be easy you do need some networking skills to assemble it .... unless you are happy to play music on the NDS from a USB stick. 

You could download music from Naim or Linn and save it on a computer and then copy it to a USB stick. Insert USB in NDS and it'll play. You can control it as you did a CD. 

Trying to write instructions how to set-up a Music Server and network it to the NDS and then set up your computer to download files and store them on the Music Server. Then to set-up wireless networking so you can control it all from your iPad would be quite a challenge on an Internet forum. I couldn't guarantee I could write instructions that would definitely work for you.

However, a good dealer would have you up and running and would show you exactly how to use the system. To be honest unless your dealer can do this for you then it is not the right place to buy the NDS. 

Please note a Mac Mini is not the ideal way to feed the NDS. It'll work and it'll sound good, but it won't play all hi-res files (definitely not straight out of the box). If you buy the NDS then you'll want to use its in-built music player (a significant part of the package which can play hi-res files in both Naim and Linn format and most others). Plugging a PC or Mac in to it using the digital port it makes it in to a DAC (a very good one, but you have bought far more than a DAC). So you really need to build a network to take full advantage of the NDS. 

You will also need a wireless capability to control everything from an iPad. 

The good thing is once it is set-up it is really to use. 

All the best, Guy

Neil I am NOT trying to push the uServe, but I can tell you that what I do is download hi res files, copy them to a usb stick, and plug the stick into one of the uServe's 4 usb inputs.  The files and artwork appear on my iPhone the same way that ripped cd's appear, and I play them under control of the nServe app on my iPhone.

This, again, is an exceedingly simple solution, as there is really no set up or tinkering with settings with the uServe.

For your purposes, I think that you can conceptualize this streaming world as requiring a device to rip your cd's, a device to store the digital files on (can be the same device for ripped "redbook" cd's and hi res files) and a device to convert digital to analog (a "dac").  I have a uServe and Naim DAC, respectively.  uServe rips cd's and stores the files (and with a usb stick plugged into it, it stores hi res files). 

Others, at less cost but more complexity to the novice, rip their cd's with their home computer, store the files on a NAS device or Mac Mini, and then also have a DAC. 

The suggestion of a Naim HDX has been made, too.  That, in one box, is a ripper, a storage device (if you get the hard drive version) and a dac. It also accepts usb sticks for your hi res music files (I'm 95% sure of this last part).  So that could be a very interesting one box solution. 

Bart - could not Neil just use a Naim DAC with USB sticks for hi-res, if he doesn't want to rip things?

Neil says, he would use his CDS3 to play CDs. 

He sure could. But I'd be afraid, this could be a very short sighted advice.

Digital nwebies are like little children - you have to do the thinking for them.  No offence , Neil. All I am trying to say is, once you get the hang of it, you'll want more and more ...

To be fair I should have identified that as an option, but really it's a very (IMHO) unsatisfying option. There is no control over the playback other than "next track" and "previous track."  Without any sort of display to show you a listing of tracks, what you're playing, what's next, etc., I find it a 'not suitable for prime time' solution for the long run. Yes it works in a pinch, and the music played that way SOUNDS wonderful (!!!) but I don't view it as a basis for building a hi res library -- a library where none of the books' tables of contents or page numbers or locations on the shelves are discernible (poor analogy maybe but I thought it up quick!).

Think I'll visit my dealer when he gets the NDS..But I could start with the USB stick solution.

BTW. Will there be a ND555 too ?

Neil, if you are willing to spend the kind of money the NDS costs, you owe it to yourself to make full use of it and stream via UPnP. Anything else would seem a shame really as you would only be appreciating half of what you could be getting. And don't forget, having the NDS connected via a dedicated network will also allow you to enjoy a very broad selection of very good Internet radio stations, offering just about any music you can think of and like. The sound quality of Internet radio is not the best it could be but I am sure it will sound quite nice through the NDS. IMHO it's already enjoyable through a Sonos/nDAC or ND5XS/nDAC combination. 

As others have mentioned, I too think it will be a good few years before Naim release the ND555.

Neil - if you are thinking NDS then I'd advise waiting for it as anything you buy now will be redundant when the NDS hit the shelves (except a US which would still be useful). If you were thinking UQ/ND5/NDX for the long haul then that would be different. My thoughts are if you bought the NDX right now and then wanted the NDS, you'd lose a bit on the trade-in. Contrariwise you might find the NDX was as high as you needed to go in the range to get the SQ you were searching for. 

ND555 - perhaps. There is talk of 32/384 digital music standard too. However, the NDS sounds great and it'll be hard to make something better; though that'll never stop folk trying. 

All the best, Guy

32/384 standard?

I can only hope that even the biggest audiophile nut will realize the insanity.  This would be completely GaGa. Unfortunately the technically possible always dictates the seemingly best high end solution. What a waste of money and resources!

+1 - have a look at the HD Tracks site, that is where I read it 

That is what everyone said about 24/96 (and MANY still do).  That's what people said about 1080p.  I am not saying it will sound better, but something in me says 24/192 is not the end of the road.

24/96 is enough for me.  I have a few 192s and they don't bring any returns over the 96s.  Maybe you need to get to 32/384 to start hearing a meaningful difference. 

Who knows?

Patrick

Thank you all. 

But....What is the difference between a VortexBox and a UnitServe ?

About £1500.