Nd5xs + xp5xs vs. bare ndx

Mohit,

You would be welcome to do this yourself at Tune or in the comfort of your own home. I haven't had both a 24/192 NDX and an ND5xs at the same time to compare myself but we will by tomorrow afternoon.

No matter the outcome, If you want to keep it two boxes, the NDX/Naitxs would likely be the victor. 

In a comparison between bare 24/96 NDX and bare ND5xs (24/192) into older 52/135/SBL system, the NDX was clearly more in control and mature sounding. Better depth and scale of sound and music was more together (using Emmy Lou Harris Wrecking Ball from UnitiServe 16/44) But haven't compared in lower resolution or newer naim system. Not entirely true. Fronting 252/300/S-600 at shop, NDX was out on demo so slipped ND5xs in its place and played its digital out into DAC/555ps as NDX had before. Not a great sound. Surprising. Put a Powerline on the ND5xs and improved much but still well behind NDX as streamer in this instance.

These streamers love Powerlines.

Connon

I'll swing by one of these days, and get the stageline squared out too. ;-)

I doubt the difference between ND5XS and NDX into nDAC/PS555 will be that great, audible yes but not night and day. Personally I run an ND5XS/nDAC/PS555/SN/HC and am very pleased with the result. Of course 252/300 is more revealing and I would expect the difference to be somewhat more pronounced in that combo. At the lower end of the scale, I wouldn't worry too much. Other factors such as how many boxes, same sized or mixed, available founds, etc. would influence my personal decision just as much. At the end of the day it's the music that's important and either combo will give you plenty to look forward too.

Good luck

tp

Is the difference between the ND5XS and the NDX pretty much the same as between the CD5XS and the CDX2? If so, I can image the difference.

The latter comparison, of using both to power a nDac/555PS, though interesting, is academic for me. :-) Not looking to get a 555PS anytime soon.

I've got the wrecking ball cd on order now. Got the BruceSpringsteen Wrecking Ball on vinyl, but have just been listening to the CD rip.

Yes, the difference is similar to the difference between CD5xs and CDX2 and is likely due to the difference in power supplies of the two as well as differences in the analog section. I know the comparison of both through DAC/555PS is academic to you but just wanted to share my experience. Like I noted, it was a surprise to me.

TP, I agree that the difference will be context based depending on system resolution and you are welcome to doubt the difference between the digital out of the two. Not night and day but again, in the context of the resolution of the 252/300/S-600 system, the difference was striking and meaningful - musically as well as sonically. Our experience at the shop, again into the 252/300/S-600 system was that the NDX/555PS is generally more musically satisfying than the NDX/DAC/555PS. The combo with DAC had more detail but not as well sorted overall and a bit more edge than the NDX/555PS. YMMV.

Connon, 

Glad to see you on the forums!

Mohit

Dear naimies,

I would love to hear from a few further folks on their experience with ND5XS (or NDX) without and with the XP5XS (or XPS2): what exactly did the external PSUs deliver? So far, I am not feeling it with the ND5XS, but my comparison base is limited (and so are my ears)...

Topic resurrected?

Cheers,

Stefan

Stefan

I have just added an XPS2 to my ND5XS, as since the last firmware update 3.16 it had removed a lot of low end from it, and had lost some emotion from female vocals. Hard to say what it had lost but was something missing.

Listened to both the XPS2 and XP5XS and have to say its a revelation to the sound. All i can say is it improves it in all areas, but has brought back that low end thump. Think its the clarity i notice the most, its like the noise floor dropped away, which was odd as i didn't notice it was even there before.

Definitely recommend you have a listen

Dear Foxman,

Was there a huge difference between the XPS2 and XP5XS ?

I only heart a demo of an XP5XS with the ND5XS and was impressed by the level of weight, detail and soundstage the PSU added to the sound.

Iver

Hello Iver

No not a huge difference at all. Although i only auditioned in shop, so didin't have the advantage of long home demo, but there was a definite audible advantage. The main reason i went for the XPS2 was one it was second hand and two i think it will come in more useful in the future if i upgrade.

I auditioned the 555PS into the NDX with both a NaitXS and a SuperNait with a HiCapDR.

It made it different, not necessarily better... My first reaction was disappointment.. and a sense of disbelief.. and what's this fuss all about...

I would just get the XPS-2 with the NDS when you're ready for it. Not sure there's much of a point otherwise.

Now, the ND5XS with the XP5XS might be a different story..

Since the CDS was shipped with the XPS-2, I'm not entirely sure why one needs the 555PS with the NDS...

There are way too many combinations too think about, but what gets me is the way that every level you go doubles in price. Now come on is that a marketing ploy or what.

I mean at the end of the day they are PSU's, how different can they be. £1,600 difference between XP5XS and XPS2 no way. £3K from XPS2 to 555PS really???

Yep, really. After all, Naim have never been in the incremental upgrade game. If you buy an upgrade they want it to be a serious upgrade, and that usually has a concomitant effect on the price. If you look at most of the range, be it CD players, preamps or amps, you'll see that the next model up is usually about twice the price.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

think my point is do they make the next product up the chain slightly better and put a double the price tag on it, or do they design it with that price limit in mind. It all seems to neatly priced to me, but maybe that's just me, after all i am Scots

At least SuperCap is more than double the price of HiCap. In the right place it's also more than double as good! 

Very much agree, Fedor. When I demo'd in store a 282/HC/250.2 against my existing Chord pre/power, I also asked to hear a SuperCap.  The jump in performance was far, far greater than I was expecting.  This demo was pre-DR so I don't know how the current PSUs compare.  Nonetheless the performance improvement I heard - obvious 30 secs into the first track - showed why the SC is approx three times the price of a HiCap. Whether you can afford or are prepared to pay that much for a PSU is a separate question, of course. 

In an attempt to come back to the topic (sort-of) - would anybody know WHY the XP5XS is supposed to improve the SQ of the ND5XS? One factor is that it is just an external PSU, thus the circuitry in the ND5XS is less affected e.g. by the transformer. What are possible other factors (given the the XP5XS is non-DR)? E.g., I was reading about the CDX2 that its internal PSU only has 3 power rails (i.e., separate voltage supplies), whereas the external PSUs have 6 (and thus provide better channel separation). Is the same true for the ND5XS?

Admittedly this is a question for insiders...

Best,

Stefan

P.S.: Surely one factor is expense: paying almost the same amount for the XP5XS as for the ND5XS would better give some effect...

Stefan,

I am no expert of PSUs, but have studied the basics a little.

Chiefly, Naim PSUs double-rail current, e.g. they provide two single lines of V for each section of the destination circuit that, usually, has single-rail power feeding aboard.

This, plus the fact that an external PSU relieves the internal one of some of its duties (as is the case with, say, a Supernait) and gives better electrical isolation from noise, and plus the usually bigger size of transformer and capacitors or the more articulate regulators, sums up to the final result.

To go back to the original question, I have not compared Naim network players but have bought an XP5 XS for my CDX2, defeating the obvious notion that a 2nd hand XPS2 is almost equal in cost and is in theory much better. I bought a 4 months old one, so I should be safe for the next 10 years or so (provided I stay alive of course).

I also considered that in case I should move to an ND5XS or, possibly, a  Naim Dac in the future, I already have its Upgrade PSU ready.

This said, the XP5 XS is not DR-ed, as everyone know, and I have found it to do something interesting and partly unexpected to a CDX2; I have good experience and memory of the XPS2, which normally adds to the CDX2 in the direction of the CDP555: making it wider, clearer, sharper, enhancing contrasts, bringing light to the details, adding body; the XP5 XS does this too, to a lesser degree, but what is interesting is the type of change it makes: focus has increased, bass is a little tighter, but the general voice has acquired some - sorry but I have to use this word - analogueness.

The player now sounds more like a lesser CDS3 than like a lesser CD555; and I think that some may like it. It has retained all its congenital superiority to the CD5x, but has gained some of its warmth.

I think it is worth an audition.

Max

Many have said on here that there is a clear difference between the ND5XS and NDX in favour of the NDX, it may therefore be that the change from ND5XS to NDX may well be a more worthwhile change than adding an XP5XS to the ND5XS.

It would also probably be cheaper taking trade in value into consideration.

Rich,

I'm sure you're perfectly right on this. My somewhat long report was a little help to the so far still rather obscure reputation of the XP5XS.

Its shorter box also gives it an >easy< look, and has made it slip nicely and discretely between the two bigger ones.

Max

Nice rack, what make is that?

It's the Chinese company Guizu, they make both home furniture and bespoke audio racks, for electronics and for loudspeakers.

I don't know if they're distributed in the UK. The shelves have special structures for the absorption of resonances. Real wood, fine pieces.

Max

I added a xp5xs to the HDX a few days ago, bought it because it fits well cosmetically with same size pre/power/flatcap and because it was only 1k at 7 months old. I have to admit that I was blown away by the results. The HDX is a different monster altogether now. the difference seems greater than what the HDX was over the cd5xs! Incredible detail, space between instruments, lovely vocals, warmer and smoother sound. Sounds much fuller at low volumes too. Well worth the money. Oh, and the PL makes it better too, on the PS that is. 

+1.......- sorry but I have to use this word - analogueness.

agree on this too. Quite extraordinary!