Nd5xs + xp5xs vs. bare ndx

^ what he said. I don't personally know how or why and I don't care. Been there, done the side by side, traded in the already excellent XPS2. If you can't hear a difference which justifies the change than don't. I did. Others have. Others have not. So it goes.

I have heard variously powered combinations of the ND5, NDX and NDS in a few systems. As said already, the permutations are huge and certainly too big for me to make like for like comparisons at different price points. For what it's worth the take home impression (rather than hard verdict) for me is that the NDX is the star of the range for price versus performance. That doesn't make the ND5 bad or the NDS average.You just (to my ears) seem to get proportionally more in the middle - all be it at a higher cost. NDS still comfortably mops up - again, at a price.

Yes, so it goes. It also goes that you hear the difference and, for any number of reasons, you don't want to/can't spend the money.

In Naimland the dominating attitude seems to be: if you can hear it, it's worth it. That ends up making other people's choice seem: if you don't go for it, you can't hear it.

There are also compromises: between cost and result. The XP5 XS is one of those compromises, and one of the happiest, in my opinion.

M.

Max, of course you should always 'go' for it, as you don't know what you don't know.... But that means auditioning at home. Most quality Naim dealers will let you do this. Now if what you hear you like, and you can, buy it. If however if it doesn't sound right.. and newer and more expensive doesn't always mean better - then don't buy it. The most  fool hardy  thing to do is buying without home demonstration, as you will really be playing the lottery.

I don't pay much attention to dominating attitudes. Sometimes my attitude syncs, sometimes not. 

I have a system for evaluation based on wants, value and resources available. It revolves around  listening at home and can result in spending as anticipated, spending less or not spending at all.

I respect and am grateful for other people's opinions in so far as they are a reference and generally informative, both positively and negatively. But they don't drive me and I only use my own ears.

Many thanks to everybody - particularly Max!

Stefan

Well said Harry!!

S

You're welcome!

Max

Hey guys,

I think it was already mentioned before, but there is an interesting test available comparing ND5XS/XP5XS vs bare NDX. Differences are not too big. The test is in Dutch so I asked Google to help translate :-)

"Naim network players compared: NDX and ND5 XS (supplemented with XP5 XS)
Which network player? NDX or ND5 XS? Or with the ND5 XS XS XP5?
This is a difficult task. I have two Naim network players compare, that a lot in common. How do you make such a listening test? This is really a brain cracker. Listening was not difficult, because there was not too many problems a "winner" to designate: NDX. But the ND5 XS was a very attractive sounding candidate, which I've experienced a lot of fun. And to make it even more difficult to make: the ND5 XS combined with XP5 XS food was almost as good as the NDX. That's nice, say! And then expect me an understandable, coherent and readable story make of me. Sigh ...
Used equipment First we mention the equipment used. A Naim NAC 282 preamplifier with a Naim HiCap DR diet, Naim NAP 200 power amplifier, a set Audiovector Si3 Avantgarde Arrete speakers, a set of The Chord Company Sarum speaker cables and consume Acoustics Pulse B DIN cable, which the network players take turns on the pre-amplifier can be connected. The cabling between the preamplifier and power amplifier consists of standard Naim cables. In short: a "nice set", which is placed in the listening room of Lexicom MultiMedia.
Naim NDX and ND5 XS - description If the differences between the NDX and ND5 XS wants to find out and above the Naim-site consulting, is in comparing the specifications are not much wiser. On paper seem both candidates speaking to each other. Obviously there is a difference in housing: the ND5 XS XS belongs to the family and the NDX comes from the Classic line. The XS family has a "slimline" housing, the Classic line is literally and figuratively a heavier caliber in terms of damping of resonances, eliminating interference signals, etc. That may seem an afterthought, but it does have indeed affect the appearance. Further differences are small details that only become apparent when both players are subjected. To an internal inspection That sounds very surgically, but again, the internet solution. Photos of both network players unclothed state are found with some searching. Now it is clear that the ND5 XS is just a little bit easier performed, just a little bit simpler components and has a slightly different layout of the printed circuit boards. But I had to really concentrate to see the differences. Both network players are equipped with the new "digital section", which is suitable for signals up to 32bit/192kHz. Also, each equipped with a DAC, which is derived from the highly acclaimed Naim DAC, albeit in a reduced form and with a different type of DAC chip. Both devices are well built and give the impression that longevity is in line with expectations. Oh yes, I almost forgot: the NDX has an RS232 port for software upgrades. But whether that is a decisive argument ... I'm going to listen, because with a technical comparison I'm not much further.
Listen - 1 In a direct comparison between listening NDX and ND5 XS is striking that the playback sounds more mature on the NDX. Although both network players a high quality display to offer, NDX forces a decision in his favor: more peace in the view, a larger stereo image, richer sound with fuller bass and silky high, less staining, a more natural timbre and a better focusing. Also, the display of nuanced details, making the music more realistic and more complete feel. Occasionally, even as that set goosebumps-inducing live feel. Andrea Bocelli sings La Voce Del Silenzio and clearly two meters before the orchestra, as it should. His voice is full of Italian passion by the listening room and when I close my eyes, it seems as if I can touch him. This reinforces the impression of a real-life view. When I listen to a classical orchestra, to identify the instruments clearly and place, so I see the orchestra before me when I close my eyes (again). So beautiful that I tend to get along to direct. Fortunately I know to control me, because that does not look and in addition I take notes. Relax the NDX gives the music again, with a sense of superior ascendancy. Nothing can bring the NDX off balance, he swings any type of music with a careless sovereignty in the listening room. Even a grand piano, which is displayed correctly only by flawless designed (and unfortunately usually priceless) audio equipment, sound pretty lifelike. The keystrokes, the hammers against the strings, the soundboard and the cabinet to the decay of the show: the reproduction is believable and compelling. This really is the college of music playback.
But wait, let me not forget the ND5 XS. Well, the NDX is the "Big Brother", but do not let junior is just put aside! And rightly so: the ND5 XS captivates with a neat and special musical play me in his own way huge. The differences with the NDX are present, but should not be exaggerated. Even though the view from the ND5 XS less polished and he does not show the utter sophistication of the NDX, the ND5 XS network remains a player with great qualities. The ND5 XS sounds more compact, has a slightly smaller stereo image with less depth and does not work every minute detail to perfection, but while I'm writing I notice how much fun I listen to the music. I have to move the ND5 XS to NDX. No time tend to irritated to stand up and devour the cable again Only when it is very busy and gets the ND5 XS lot of time choosing his, he has a little bit of a tendency to walk close. But these are happy exceptions. In fact, the ND5 XS a great music machine, any type of music with verve presents and displays. Make no mistake: the ND5 XS is a full featured network player who leaves behind many cousins and has almost no competition in its price range. So delicious it! Sounds A little hint: I would find absolutely no punishment if someone would do me ... a ND5 XS gift
Naim XS XP5 Naim is known for the additional power supplies, which can be added to most Naim devices. If upgrade Also for the Naim ND5 XS is that possibility, in which case it is called XP5 XS. Because I wanted to know if a ND5 XS combined with XP5 XS nearby can come from a NDX, is added the power referred to the equation. The nice thing about such additional power, that upgrade can be added, so you do not suddenly a major expense state. Later Usually means the deployment of an additional power that the device is suddenly very difficult (and budget) on its big brother, and that the display does an audible step up the ladder that leads to the audio nirvana. Actually, that makes perfect sense, because sound is actually modulated current. The higher the power, the better the sound. So I had high expectations when I started the second part of the listening test.
Listening - 2 And indeed, the ND5 XS benefits audible from the support that the XP5 XS offers him. The new combination got to come on steam, but then there is no stopping them. Suddenly the distance to "Big Brother" NDX more than halved. Indeed, the tandem ND5 XS XS & XP5 comes suspiciously close to the NDX. The display of the occasional band is maturing and getting more rest, depth and content. I found the display initially more compact than the NDX, the stereo image is now growing in all directions and I "complain" little more. The voice of Andrea Bocelli get more passion, a deeper emotional and occasionally even seems to have been included. Using another microphone The orchestra behind him not only more space in width, but especially in depth. This leads to a different overall impression of the music: bigger, more compelling, more interesting. In my notes, the word "WOW" very big written. I still always find amazing weather, what impact adding such additional powered. I am looking for a classical orchestra again and note that the increased space and air around the instruments for a more relaxed view provides. The musicians seem to have more space and use it with more conviction to play their music. The increased amount of acoustic information creates a stronger impact of the music. In transients (fast dynamics changes) the ND5 XS seems to have more breathing space which previously noticed slight tendency to clogging hardly no longer on the agenda. Finally sounds the wing more "real" and he also seems to be a bit larger, the listening room is filled with very fine image quality. All this together creates an intense music experience. The music comes to life and almost forbids me to stop the track. By the nicer detail the music is versatile and can be listened to. More
Finally, the match between the ND5 XS XS & XP5 and NDX. This is a comparison between fantastic and even more fantastic. That in itself is a reviewer obviously very nice, because the choice is not between a candidate who eventually miserably falls through the ice and one with flying colors reached the finish line, but between good and even better. Two ear pleasing options that must be weighed against each other. In this case, both options have something to say (see also the Opinion). NDX remains the leader in the standings, but the margin has shrunk considerably. The ND5 XS XS & XP5 make him easy. The results are quite close to each other.  Eventually wins the NDX because he is the most sovereign exudes tranquility of the two fighting cocks and provides the most mature view. The display of the NDX has a higher "authenticity" by greater accuracy in terms of timbre. Each instrument is recognized by its own authentic sound, every voice is immediately and human life really there. In the listening room The improved spaciousness, the very good acoustic information and greater depth in the image to make the judgment complete: NDX can climb on top of the podium and receive the laurel wreath handed. But the ND5 XS is the margin between positions 1 and 2 using the XP5 XS can reduce considerably. On a slightly greater distance, the ND5 XS XS XP5 without an honorable third place may claim for themselves.
Conclusion What is the importance of all these concepts as peace in the view, authenticity, stereo imaging, detail and so on? Is that just posturing of hardened audiophile audio lunatics? I do not think so. All these concepts serve to indicate whether an audio device or audio set the sonic reality as closely as possible. If successful, listening to music and not for devices. It must be so! The music is in your listening room to life and captivates from the first to the last note. That's the difference between "canned sound" and high-quality music reproduction. Therefore optimum sound quality and a true representation of interests for all music lovers.
The Naim ND5 XS network player has those qualities in abundance. Add a Naim XS XP5 power and the result is a long way in the direction of the NDX network player. But the real winner is the Naim NDX, which offers everything the ND5 XS XS & XP5 offer there and then do a nice little extra.
Of course, this depends on a price and Naim music festival is not childish with its prices. Without wanting to scare you, I put all prices below technical facts straight (as the prices were on March 30, 2013):  The advantages of the NDX are clear, but there's a high price to pay: € 4271, -. The ND5 XS is a lot nicer price: € 2644, -. The XP5 XS, the ND5 XS tilt to a substantially higher level, costs € 2337, -. Just add: The combination ND5 XS XS & XP5 costs so € 4981, -. This means that the combination ND5 XS XS & XP5 is more expensive than the NDX. But on the other hand, you have to buy at once. NDX Who that is too much for, can also buy a ND5 XS and later upgrade with XP5 XS.
Whatever choice you make, you buy in any case an excellent network player who is prepared for the future and that sonic has everything to offer you high-quality music enjoyment provide many years."

That was interesting,if a little challenging to wade through. Still enjoyed it though.

I haven't had the streamer range lined up side-by-side at home but I have on three occasions heard the range - ND5 with 5PS, NDX with XPS2, NDS with 555PS in a set piece audience demo. The results across the three demos with different partnering equipment have been consistent to my ears but only an in depth dealer audition  or home audition would confirm them, which for me is moot.

While the ND5 is indeed a very musical box for it's price point, the NDX gives it a real mugging. The superiority of the NDS over the NDX, while obvious, is not as big a gulf as the NDX over the ND5.  Which makes the NDX the cost effective sweet spot if you need to evaluate it in such terms.

In my opinion only.

And conclusion: With ND5 XS plus XP 5 XS you are higher in proce than NDX and the author says: almost better, And? Doesn't mean at the end really something. Go and listen, ideal at home with your equipment and decide for the setup that fits better to your requirements and preferences.

Agree with you Ragman, in the end only a good audition is the only fair judgement one can make. I can tell from experience !

However, journalist reviews when done with care and certain neutrality (and this reviewer seems to be), at least bring some good insight on the relative performance of a piece of kit

Any review that fills a product void is useful IMO, this comparison was too. As an owner of an ND5 and with the potential to upgrade it in the future, perhaps now I will take a loss on the ND5 and aim for the NDX...not without a demo ofcourse.

Very interesting Iver.

Jason.

hmm.. whatever!

These network players takes hours or even days to settle back in and start swinging and giving their best - A/B testing even if you're listening to many songs is kind of worthless.

I've gone back and forth between the players.

If you're amplification is in the XS range, stick with the ND5XS - it's just a joyful little source and is a lot more fun to listen to than the NDX. I hated the NDX with the NaitXS. The ND5XS/NaitXS/HiCap is a peach too. I had the XPS on the ND5XS for a while. I don't miss it one bit. The HiCap on the NaitXS smoothens things out nicely enough.

One of my favorite combos was the ND5XS/Nait5i-2. Just perfect!

Now the NDX: if you're running this with the 202/200/HiCapDR or even with a Supernait/HiCapDR don't use a XPS on it. If you're tacking on a PSU on the NDX... well, I don't know. Maybe I'll come across a used 282 and will be able to put it through it's paces.

What I'm listening to mostly nowadays: ND5XS/NaitXS/HiCapDR. Even though I've got a NDX, I much prefer the ND5XS. I'll probably get rid of the NDX soonish - just holding on to it so I can play around with it and a 282.

What the reviewer does not indicate is that the NDX can be improved with the XPS-DR just like the ND5XS can with the XP5XS...

Even though I liked the (UnitiQute -> nDac -> PSU) combo the best, I felt stupid having 3 boxes for source. The ND5XS is good enough.

Come to think of it, it's $3500 source. If we step out of the world of Naim prices - that we've gotten used to, it is an awful lot of money. so it better be good.

Sometimes we reduce the value of very good products by unnecessarily comparing them with even higher end products.

The $1100 Apollo-R, for example, sounded much richer and righter tonally than even the NDX - and equally if not more enjoyable.

At the end a journalist is just a human beeing with all advantages and disadvantages (such as not neutral!).

Trying to summarize the impression I have got from several posts in this forum I have the feeling most people are more impressed by the ND5 XS

Any news?

This has been an entertaining and interesting topic. It is becoming evident that one step up in the hierarchy does not necessarily mean increase in enjoyment. One conclusion seems to be that the presentation of the NDX is works better with more revealing amplification. Other one might be that there is quite clear synergy between XS-series.

I am curious why people tend to connect these streamers using the digital input instead of the analogue one. Why is that? I find it hard to believe that the internal DAC of the ND5SX would not beat the ancient integrated DAC of the old SNait. DACs if anything are components in the hifi business that have gone forward by giant steps. Same thought goes with the Unitiqute and SNait.

What I would like to hear now is the audition and comparison between native NDX, nDAC, DAC-V1, and ND5 when they are connected to the amp section via analogue cable without any addition of external PSU.