My Demo on Friday with ND5XS, NDX, NDAC, XPS, Sonos

TP

Happy to re-rip directly to a local UnitiServe if it sounds significantly better. I'm hoping (for financial reasons ) that my un-modded Sonos ZP90 via DAC is close enough.

I'm also considering re-locating my NAS downstairs, I've done all the big file transfers now so wi-fi v gigabit ethernet to my own PC is less of an issue.

> I'd go so far as to suggest that a modded Sonos ZP90 will sound just as good as the Serve or ND5 into nDAC.

+1

I would be very surprised if a suitably modified Sonos gave anything away to another source playing ripped CDs in to the Naim DAC. The advantages of other streamers are only apparent when playing high resolution files in my opinion. 

Yet another theme to investigate - modded ZP90.

Dear Google ..........

Let's be honest, the biggest sonic limitations for me are the house and 2 small children, I'm just after some shiny (well matt actually) new boxes.

Mine is Wyred 4 Sound by Rick Cullen rather than Cliff Richard - the jitter on the S/PDIF drops from several hundred picoseconds to virtually nothing - I believe this is the reason for the improved sound, but who knows .... 

Well it's all here and set-up. Brought the NAS downstairs to hardwire.

The DAC is brand new out of a stapled box, so knowing Naim gear I will reserve judgement for a little while.

Overall impression - underwhelmed

The UnitiServe is rubbish, ripped 10 albums, La Roux has been completely mis-identified and the Matrix album has no artwork. Plus it takes longer to rip than dbPoweramp even after I edit the metadata.

In my system, at the volumes I listen to (family asleep usptairs as I type), through my ears and brain, this is not a GBP 4k upgrade. I remember the difference adding an FC2 to the CD5 made and the change when I went from Nait5 to 112x/150x. They were undeniably audible, right now I have an album I know well playing in the background through UnitiServe and DAC and nothing is grabbing my attention as something new or better.

I'm quite upset, I have savings burning a hole in my pocket and thought this would be a fun way to spend them. Oh well. In the meantime I will leave the UnitiServe on loop playing via the DAC and 112x to get it all warmed up (and started to run-in) and listen again tomorrow evening.

I think (for my house, ears and other compromises and limitations) I may have hit the rules of diminishing returns. I can tell the difference between a £10 and £20 bottle of wine, beyond that I'm struggling: it seems I've got to the same stage with hi-fi.

Maxi me

The unitiserve is primarily a server - the ability to play CDs and the dig out are IMHO secondary features. As my dealer said its a computer not a purpose built cd player. I much prefer using it to a laptop and db power amp. Oh and it's superb with any of naims streamers.

I agree with you regarding the dac though which I have tried and not liked. Early days though hey.

Ray

No real update to add after another couple of days. I still suspect the DAC hadn't come on song yet, it'd only been playing for 48 hours when I had to stop and there were a couple of moments where it was getting close to my CD5.

Definitely not impressed with the UnitiServe, it doesn't really offer me anything over my current PC and NAS set-up.

At slightly less sociable volumes the differences between the sources became a little more noticable, but there weren't any dramatic shifts. Given that this was a comparison between CD5, Analogue Sonos playing Apple Lossless, Sonos playing Apple Lossless via DAC and UnitiServe playing WAV via DAC I found this quite surprising.

Ray - Maybe a SuperUniti instead? Stream from the NAS and replace the 112x/150x? Cheaper than the UnitiServe and DAC too! Although, having split the Nait5 into a (long desired) pre/power it seems a backwards step to go from many boxes to an integrated.

What speakers are you using Maxi?

Are you saying that a Flatcapped cd5x sounds as good or better as a UnitiServ straight into nDac?

All into xs level separates?

I'm not too surprised. :-)

Just save the money. or go on a vacation with the family. ;-)

nDAC/US should be miles better than CD5X, you need to give the nDAC time to burn in though, just let it run 24/7 for a week and then do your listening test again. I bet US is a great piece of kit, not for CD replay though but off the HD. Although a Mac Mini or modded Sonos ZP90 will probably sound just as good. Other than that? Your 112 might be the bottleneck now, I'd swap both the 112 & 150 for a Nait XS and take it from there.

Poldo - The speakers are Ruark Prelude II's that I got with my original CD5, Nait5, Flatcap2 system back in 2005 or so. Love their presentation (and aesthetics) and I now have the matching centre and surrounds. They may well be a limiting factor, but so is the room and fact that the system sits within a larger AV set-up.

MangoMonkey - It's a CD5, not CD5x and into 112x/150x not xs. But, yes, that is what I heard. The caveat is that the DAC was brand new out of the box and only had 48 hours to run-in.

Totemphile - Agreed, the DAC probably needed more time. I may well ask to borrow it again once the dealer has had it for a while. Didn't like the UnitiServe at all and you can't (currently) download HD files onto it, so not a lot of point given that I already have a decent NAS set up. I also agree that other elements in the system may well be a bottle neck, although it is nicely balanced at the moment so an upgrade might need to be across the board and I can't afford that.

All - Thanks for the replies. Will go and chat with the dealer at lunch time and explore other upgrade paths. The idea of the SuperUniti is quite appealing.

>> The idea of the SuperUniti is quite appealing.

Would love to know how much the SuperUnity gives away to the separate NDS5 network player? I'm thinking of placing the SUnity within an AV system for front two channels rather than continue looking for an AV processor that improves on my Tag AV32 for music. Love the Naim boogie factor (used to have 72/140/HC) and despite wanting for some time an Onkyo/Arcam/Anthem processor/receiver, they just don't do music nearly as well.

Had a chat with the dealer at lunchtime. Will borrow the DAC again once it has a chance to run-in some more.

Also going to arrange a dem of SuperUniti v ND5 XS; 152 XS; 155 XS running off the UnitiServe (that now has some of my tunes on it)

As someone who owns a 152/155 combo and is looking at getting into streaming via either the Uniti Serve/SuperUniti, UnitiServe/ND5XS, or UnitiServe/Dac route I would be keen to hear how your demo turns out.

Cheers

KS

King Size

Will let you know later, the dem is booked at 1330

Personally, I didn't like the Uniti Serve and would recommend a PC or Mac ripping to a NAS box; for £2k you can get get a decent computer and RAID5 NAS.

With your set-up I'd be thinking ND5 XS, I just have some money burning a hole in my pocket! Nothing wrong with my 112x/150x, in fact all this upgraditis has got me listening to more music and appreciating just how good my current set-up is

King Size and All,

Firstly, apologies for the length of post. Lots to try and convey.

OK, I'm back from PJ Hi-Fi, my very understanding dealership. Really well organised demonstration, thanks Andrew.

The systems:

UnitiServe as UPnP data repository and £7.2k Audiovector speakers as common to the tests.

SuperUniti vs ND5 XS, 152 XS, 155 XS as the variable bits in the middle.

The music:

Bunch of my own bits to get warmed up with on the XS system. Followed by a serious head to head of two tracks from the Stoosh album by Skunk Anansie. Brazen (Weep) [which I know really well] and Infidelity (Only You) [which I'm less familiar with]. After that, Andrew cued up a Male vocalist with simple accompaniment that I didn't know at all.

The results:

I think it is definitely something everyone should listen to for themselves before making a decision, both systems are really good and the cost is similar from scratch but the presentation is somewhat different.

The SuperUniti is warmer with fuller bass, but less detailed. The XS system is more analytical.

Overall, for me, I preferred the detail of the XS system. The bass was leaner, but better controlled. The soundstage was more defined and on the Male vocalist track there was an extra depth [it sounded further away spatially, sorry, difficult to put into words] with extra musical information in it. There was also a clarity in the mid-range that was slightly missing from the SuperUniti.

An aside:

A 282, HC, 250 also happened to be available and set-up from the previous dem. Using the ND5 XS on the same Male vocalist track as above - awesome! Even more detail and layering, better controlled, deeper bass and a more integrated and 'musical' [whatever that is, struggling to find the prose] presentation. Dang! My upgrade choice is too expensive for the moment, time to start seriously saving. It really was noticeably better than the SU or XS systems above; whether it was better enough to justify the extra cost? That's a different question.

Conclusions:

If I didn't already own Naim and wanted an easy system, I'd be really happy with the SuperUniti. It is very good and, for those of us that suffer from upgraditis, complete in itself. For those embarking on a (potential) Naim journey, the XS set-up is great and open to the power supply and other upgrade paths that Naim offer.

For me, I will wait for the demo DAC to burn in some more and try it again at home; it is the most logical next step from my current system. Plus, I’m no longer in a hurry to upgrade; I’m really appreciating the sound quality and balance of my existing set-up. It really doesn’t give huge amounts away to the 282, HC, 250, Audiovector and has that most important factor – it sticks a grin on my face  Listening to Skunk Anansie Infidelity now and it isn’t as good as earlier [quieter given the domestic circumstances for one thing] but still really enjoyable. And that is the point, isn’t it?

Comment to Naim:

The usability of n-stream is functional, but that is all. Other companies have much slicker interfaces. This is only software and shouldn't be too hard to fix, but it is a major negative in an otherwise superb set of products.

Having listened, I'm not convinced the SuperUniti would be better for you. If you're used to (and like) the 152/155 then the SU is a different beast. As always, they're your ears and it' is your money!

Thanks Maxi, your observations are appreciated and, if I was to go on those alone I would most likely stick with my current amps and add the ND5XS.  Although as you say, they're my ears and money, so it's a demo I really need to do myself.

Agree with you on the n-stream app.  It is one of the major downsides of the streamers.  The n-serve app is much better. 

King Size - Agreed, I borrowed a UnitiServe and found the user interface (browser on my laptop, not n-serve) perfectly OK.

Given the space limitations you have, I would suggest a Sonos ZP90 for streaming while you save up for another rack and all the gear to fill it up.

ND5XS is a nice product. But have you considered the nDAC? It would be a very nice upgrade for your CD5XS. As for the streaming part, you could get yourself a Sonos ZP90 for about GBP290. Feeding the nDAC it sounds very good indeed and if you get it modified by Dr. Gert Volk for another GBP290 you will have a streamer with extremely low Jitter that sounds just as good as the ND5XS (when fed into the nDAC) at about a quarter of the price. The Sonos iPad App is a real beauty and so is the desk top controller, in case you do not own an iPad or iPhone. Just a thought. I have both a Gert Volk modified ZP90 as well as an ND5XS and I will most likely sell my ND5XS because sound wise I fiind it very hard to distinguish between the two. Only "drawback", the ZP90 does not do highres and is limited to 16/48 max but I have decided that it is not a big deal for me. If and when the industry really adopts highres I might reconsider my options. Another added advantage, you can integrate Spotify with your Sonos and control it via the Sonos app, i.e. feed the Spotify stream into your nDAC, very neat and the 320kbps Spotify stream sounds rather good too.

Good luck

tp

Chris

Like TP, I second the nDAC (it really is a must have bit of kit).

It'll supercharge your CD5XS and no matter what streamer you go with down the track, you'll have the DAC to get the best out of the respective streamer.

J

Thanks Guys,

What you say makes sense but the limited time I have spent with the DAC leads me to think that I may be one of the few who doesn't like what it does

Get outta here!

I feel a can of worms opening up.....!

Try and borrow a DAC for a week, with a Hiline and DC1, and report back.

Still, if you can live without the nDAC, all the better to spend elsewhere!

James - IIRC you weren't completely sold on the DAC when you first tried it?  You felt that the CD5XS had more 'boogie' without it?  Which was pretty much my impression too...