Is this another Flying Circus ?

Posted by: Mike-B on 13 April 2012

I can't decide if the latest tax payer funded MoD fiasco is modeled on Fred Karno's or Monty Python's versions of a Flying Circus. 

 

The new fleet of RAF air-to-air tankers don’t work on British jets. Tests have shown the fuel transfer system is not compatible with RAF Tornado's. The couplings which connect to the recipient aircraft leak.

But - wait for it - they work on US airplanes  !!! 

 

The Voyager is a military version of the Airbus 330 and is a dual role as a troop carrier capable of transporting 400 soldiers. 

But - too much fun in one day - they can't be used in that role in war-zones until their missile defence system is upgraded.

 

MoD signed a £10bn deal with makers AirTanker  http://www.airtanker.co.uk/  for 14 Voyagers, the agreement is a complicated purchase & maintenance deal with Private Finance Initiative private+public partnership & has been called a “bureaucratic nightmare” by National Audit Office in 2010 warning it would run hundreds of millions over budget.

Some inside the MoD fear the refueling issue could delay delivery of the entire fleet.

9 planes are due in service in 2014. 

 

 



Posted on: 13 April 2012 by Bruce Woodhouse

One made in inches, the other metric?

 

I'm looking forward to the Anglo-French aircraft carrier project. Plenty of opportunities to lose the plot in translation!

 

A new mental health unit was built within the site of our local hospital in 2008. Completely new development to cover adult and elderly. A review last month declared it 'unfit for purpose' due to errors in design and specification.

 

Nobody likely to 'carry the can' I suspect.

 

Bruce

Posted on: 13 April 2012 by BigH47
Originally Posted by Bruce Woodhouse:

 

 

A new mental health unit was built within the site of our local hospital in 2008. Completely new development to cover adult and elderly. A review last month declared it 'unfit for purpose' due to errors in design and specification.

 

Nobody likely to 'carry the can' I suspect.

 

Bruce

Probably the teachers fault?

Posted on: 13 April 2012 by naim_nymph
Originally Posted by Bruce Woodhouse:

 

A new mental health unit was built within the site of our local hospital in 2008. Completely new development to cover adult and elderly. A review last month declared it 'unfit for purpose' due to errors in design and specification.

 

Probably the car park not big enough for overpaid psychiatrists huge prestige cars

Posted on: 13 April 2012 by Bruce Woodhouse
Originally Posted by naim_nymph:
Originally Posted by Bruce Woodhouse:

 

A new mental health unit was built within the site of our local hospital in 2008. Completely new development to cover adult and elderly. A review last month declared it 'unfit for purpose' due to errors in design and specification.

 

Probably the car park not big enough for overpaid psychiatrists huge prestige cars

Ouch! Raw nerve methinks!

 

Nonsense too. You have presumably not met an NHS psychiatrist, certainly none of those that I have ever known.

 

Substitute the words 'hospital manager' and you'd be accurate more often.

Posted on: 13 April 2012 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

 

MoD signed a £10bn deal with makers AirTanker  http://www.airtanker.co.uk/  for 14 Voyagers, the agreement is a complicated purchase & maintenance deal with Private Finance Initiative private+public partnership & has been called a “bureaucratic nightmare” by National Audit Office in 2010 warning it would run hundreds of millions over budget.

 

Only a couple of hundred million over budget? I don't think so. My bold prediction is that it will run £10 billion over-budget at least, i.e. at least double budget cost. That's the way these things go.

Posted on: 15 April 2012 by fatcat
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

I

The new fleet of RAF air-to-air tankers don’t work on British jets. Tests have shown the fuel transfer system is not compatible with RAF Tornado's. The couplings which connect to the recipient aircraft leak.

But - wait for it - they work on US airplanes  !!! 

 


 

 

The incompatibility was discovered during TESTS. It's not as if the voyagers/tornados set off on a mission in Afghanistan and failed to couple. They failed to couple during TESTS.

Posted on: 15 April 2012 by naim_nymph
Originally Posted by Bruce Woodhouse:

 

Nobody likely to 'carry the can' I suspect.

 

The pilot's will carry the jerry can.

 

Besides, it's becoming a British tradition : )

 

debs

 


 

Posted on: 15 April 2012 by Mike-B
Originally Posted by fatcat:
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

The incompatibility was discovered during TESTS. It's not as if the voyagers/tornados set off on a mission in Afghanistan and failed to couple. They failed to couple during TESTS.

Your missing the point

Its the litany of errors, mistakes, over spends, revised budgets & failier to deliver on time and/or budget of so many MoD projects.  Aircraft carriers, aircraft, helicopters  .... the list seems endless. 

 

FYI:  The 330 MRTT aircraft has an all new AAR system that will work on all aircraft types - using hose & drogue or flying boom.

Its now in the process of in-flight qualifying of all aircraft types, but despite the UK hose & drogue system being used for years, they find it leaks.  They failed to find this problem in the development, ground & air testing stage.   It leaks in the aircraft type qualifying stage when its already spec'd & in production.        

Posted on: 17 April 2012 by Reality

I agree, this is both typical and outrageous.

There is an extensive catalog of such "errors and oversights" running right through large industries and bureaucratic body's.

 

I seem to recall a new plane being built a while ago now, I think that may have been the 787, which offered wifi connectivity for passengers.

It was discovered that the network used for the provision of the passenger wifi was integral to the planes own systems network, allowing potential systems access!!

Such an incident is just madness.

A rebuild was required, again massively escalating costs.

These things seem never to be spotted at the developmental stages!

In this case though, I would imagine that even a layman would have queried the design!

 

Posted on: 17 April 2012 by fatcat
Originally Posted by Mike-B:
Originally Posted by fatcat:
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

The incompatibility was discovered during TESTS. It's not as if the voyagers/tornados set off on a mission in Afghanistan and failed to couple. They failed to couple during TESTS.

Your missing the point

Its the litany of errors, mistakes, over spends, revised budgets & failier to deliver on time and/or budget of so many MoD projects.  Aircraft carriers, aircraft, helicopters  .... the list seems endless. 

 

FYI:  The 330 MRTT aircraft has an all new AAR system that will work on all aircraft types - using hose & drogue or flying boom.

Its now in the process of in-flight qualifying of all aircraft types, but despite the UK hose & drogue system being used for years, they find it leaks.  They failed to find this problem in the development, ground & air testing stage.   It leaks in the aircraft type qualifying stage when its already spec'd & in production.        

I'M MISSING THE POINT?

 

OK, we've all heard about the well published MOD overspending cockups, but they appear to have shifted the responsibility for financing the project, purchasing and modifying the planes, along with servicing onto somebody else.

Given the fact the MOD are not very good at the above, surely you should be applauding their actions.

 

With regards to the leaking coupling. Is it known if the leak was a one off. How badly did it leak. Is the cause known, is it a design fault, component failure, service issue or procedural problem.

How much will it cost to fix?

Posted on: 26 April 2012 by mudwolf

In grad school about design, one guy had read that a brand new mental health facility had been built with lots of glass and rough stone walls in common areas.  Turns out their patients 'episodes' and physical self inflicted damage rose 50% because of reflections in the glass ( a truly horrible situation for a psychotic) and patients slamming themselves against the beautifully textured hard walls.

 

we all had a good laugh at that oversite, I can just see the architect with huge sum of money wanting to make style on a big name project ignoring safety.