New Naim NDX

quote:

The Akurate DS is a one-box streamer DAC

Which only has ONE single function. If they put some digital inputs on the DS I would get it.

At least we can use our DACs for 5 sources at a time.

And with the other products, NDX, HDX, Serve, Qute etc, you can use ANY DAC you want.

I like not being locked into one box you cannot upgrade without selling it and buying a more expensive one.

-Patrick

quote:

4-5 boxes if you aim for best SQ available from the range at this time.

And what does it take on the rest of the kit to do the same?

Pre - 2
Amp - 2+2psu
SNAXO/Supercap
Stageline/Supercap
Some kind of TT motor???

Top these 11 boxes with a STELLAR 3 box source. NDX > DAC/555ps.

3 out of 14 boxes for your source.... not bad.

quote:

What Naim are offering nDAC owners is a £3k unit just to get streaming

Why do you keep saying that?

They offered the Qute. They offered the HDX, the NDX, the Serve. They even offered iPhone streaming directly into the DAC!!!

These sources digitally into the DAC should all be VERY similar to each other if not identical. From there you can upgrade the DAC accordingly.

Not that I understand why everyone want Naim to make them a computer anyway....

I can use a Cable Star USB transport (cost £3.45 or $5 US) with USB sticks and excellent results - certainly as good as any streaming device I've heard. So to me there is no attempt by Naim to force anybody along an expensive path to use the nDAC.

If I wanted I could use a $1,800 Empirical Audio Pace-Car USB to S/PDIF re-clocking device or the Off-Ramp $1,500 USB to S/PDIF converter with a Mac. So I think this is the level Naim is competing at with its £3k streamer for those who want the best device Naim can make to complement the nDAC. I can't see anything wrong with that even if the product is not one I'd buy.

I don't have a Naim headline headphone amplifier because I neither want nor have a need for one as my Stax earspeakers have their own energiser; however I see nothing wrong with Naim producing a best of breed headphone amplifier for those who like dynamic rather than electrostatic cans.

I wouldn't expect a Qute streaming with variable output to be on same level as NDX...of course one would have to listen.

I'd like to know which dealer is going to sample all these permutations (at least in the USA, that is). There needs to be a buyers guide, and/or other guidance from Naim on where these things fall into place regarding sq. Or recommended systems so that would could make some inferences.

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:

quote:

Originally posted by Red Rooster:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John R.:
Finally a stripped down HDX! Naims information strategy is very strange and I guess a lot of Linn DS buyers here would have waited, if Naim announced the NDX earlier...

Oh no they wouldn't. Picking my ADS up this week.

Out of interest; no on what ground?

Preconceived performance level, not prepared to wait another x months till shipping, or some other reason?


Eloise, certainly not, buying one for exactly the same reason as Geoff P i.e after extensive listening compared to CDS3/XPS/555PS and the excellent sound of high res music. Read our views in the Hi-Fi corner section under such items as Naim Gods......

I think the Linn strategy is sound and more future proof than Naim's with the NDX IMHO.

Just been out to buy my Ipad to drive the ADS as well. New sounds will be forthcoming next week with the very able assistance of Phil.

TTFN

what if NDX sounds better than ADS:-) ?

quote:

Originally posted by T38.45:
what if NDX sounds better than ADS:-) ?

Yeah right....pull the other one!

quote:

Originally posted by Red Rooster:

Just been out to buy my Ipad to drive the ADS as well. New sounds will be forthcoming next week with the very able assistance of Phil.

<divert on> make sure you get ChorusDS HD - works well! <divert off>

quote:

Originally posted by JonR:

quote:

Originally posted by T38.45:
what if NDX sounds better than ADS:-) ?

Yeah right....pull the other one!

Those bells make a lovely noise too!

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:

Maybe we have to look at there being 2 (or more) different strand of source components which overlap but are also separate.
In one strand are the streamers ... Uniti and UnitiQute then NDX (bare); NDX with XPS2 and NDX with 555PS at the top.
In another are the server/players ... UnitiServe and then HDX (with it's PS options providing upgrades).
And finally the CD players ... CD5i; CD5XS; etc.

Alongside is the DAC ... which can be used to upgrade, in some cases substantially in others more subtly, the other source components.

So yes confusing ... but maybe less so than thinking of all the "Hard Disk Player / Server" devices into one lump. Edit: okay I've just looked at the website and there is a separate "Network Player" section with the NDX in - I'm sure initially was in the "Hard Disk Player / Server" section. It's actually making more sence now...

Eloise

Eloise, my point is that as you say "alongside is the DAC", that is, a very good DAC and a bundle of rippers/servers/players that only need the DAC as a possible upgrade. So what is the DAC positioning in a complete distributed audio Naim system? only an upgrade...

It is also a question of what is the piece of gear you think it is more important in the digital audio chain, if you think this is the DAC, then you may still wish a simple (less features and less price) streamer device than the current HDX, NDX and even U-Serve and U-Qute.
Apart of being an upgrade I think the DAC could be part of a two box system, like a preamp and a power amp, you need both to run the system (ok, not completely true as the DAC is also a digital hub). Following with the analogy, it is like Naim offered power amps only for upgrading their integrated amps (Supernait or XS).

I am just about to buy a Naim DAC and I can't imagine myself buying in the future an HDX or a NDX, how could I be interested in expending so much money in a piece of gear with attractive features but with a redundant DAC section?

quote:

Originally posted by JonR:

quote:

Originally posted by T38.45:
what if NDX sounds better than ADS:-) ?

Yeah right....pull the other one!

As always, do the demo and make up your own mind.

Naim need to make it clear what all these different boxes do. Or rather what is needed to make each box do anything useful in a music system.

The HDX is the only easily understandable box in the Naim digital range. It is complete. You can add a power supply upgrade like on most Naim equipment. And you can add the DAC to improve sound and add digital inputs.

The HDX-SSD is less clear unless you happen to know what a NAS is. But even then the web page does not make it clear that the NAS is not included.

"UnitiServe is a compact, slot-loading, CD ripping, hard disk music player". No it is not. You need a DAC to play any music.

The NDX is fairly described. If you know about these things. But for those who dont how hard would it be to include some little diagram what is needed to make it complete? That you need a computer. That is always on. That you need to manually dick around with everything just a little bit with that same computer.

And so it goes on.

The Linn stuff is less capable, has much of the same requirements as Naims products and the boxes are ugly but all their boxes do more or less the same thing. And they try to explain that one thing in the context of a complete system on their website and in their brochures.

Naim has a variation of boxes that do different combinations of functions which makes everything harder to get a grip on. The HDX is more expensive but the internet radio you get with the cheaper boxes is missing. And so on. All this make it harder for the customer to make that crucial decision. It is much easier to come to a decision in the simple Linn range even though I personally think they stink when it comes to SQ and they certainly look like something left behind at the Roswell site.

quote:

I can't be bothered debating with you

Right on....

I was specifically referring to you "best SQ available" comment.

Those who max out their source all they way will also most likely have a 2 box Pre (282/HC at the least), probably a 2 box amp (300 or 500), add 4 more if active.... Who cares about box count at that point?

quote:

£3.5k the lighter in the pocket just to be able to stream via Naim

Then simply get the Naim DAC and any of the following......
- Serve
- Qute
- iPhone
- NAS with spdif out
- Squeezebox
- Sonos
- Soloos
- Transporter
- Airport
- Apple TV
- Sneaky DS
- Hundreds of other options

I think you will allow one single PSU upgrade to the DAC in the form of a 555ps right?

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:

quote:

Originally posted by JonR:

quote:

Originally posted by T38.45:
what if NDX sounds better than ADS:-) ?

Yeah right....pull the other one!

As always, do the demo and make up your own mind.

And what demo would that be? No NDS available yet.

Some time you have to come off the fence and take those splinters out of our butts.



RR

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:
ROTF

No, I wasn't suggesting a discontinuation of the nDAC at all, rather the NDX should have been designed around the nDAC circuitry, giving a level playing field in the DAC department and a choice between with and without streamer functions.

I don't see many nDAC owners selling or trading in their unit for the NDX, given that the nDAC is the superior, some might I guess but that doesn't make a lot of sense. So an additional box, blah, blah and £3.5k the lighter in the pocket just to be able to stream via Naim.

That don't make sense either.

Unless, of course, Naim believe current nDAC owners have more money (and unlimited rack space) than sense.

NDX is designed arounf the nDAC circutry, it seems very much the same except the D/A chip itself. The small differencies can probably be explained by the network-source optimization, not making its sound worse or the unit cheaper...


I can see many nDac owner to change to NDX as there is a very good chance that the NDX as an INTEGRATED network player can sound/work better than a combination of any streamer +S/PDIF cable + nDAC and when network playing is important for the nDAC owner.

When NDX will be available I am sure you will/can be surprised how good it can be as a network player, mainly if your priority is network playing.

NDX seems to be optimized for network playing, nDAC seems to be optimized for generic S/PDIF transmission, so won't be surprised if a network optimized player can be "better" as a network player than a network player + S/PDIF optimized playing if your main listening is through network. If S/PDIF is more important than the network functionality, than you can be happy with the existing nDAC. It is easy for me, hourses for courses. If I would change my listening from computer audio to network playing, than I would be very happy to sell the nDAC and change to NDX. NDX is mainly for network, the nDAC is mainy for S/PDIF sources. Watching it form this perspective I think much easier to explain or understand Naim's strategy.

By the way in the latest version of the NDX press release Naim hints and suggests the NDX as reference class product and compares it (someway) to CDS3 as well, not only to CDX2.

"...The NDX is a high-end network player designed to match Naim’s reference series products. For an existing Naim owner one might expect to see a NDX sitting in a Naim Fraim equipment support system alongside a CDX2 or CDS3 CD player. ..."

So why is the nDAC suggested as an upgrade for the NDX?

I'm looking for a high quality streamer without all the other gubbins. I'm currently running a variety of sources into an nDAC (CD5xT, AppleTV, SkyHD box) and by far the best sound quality is the CD5xT > nDAC.
If I could get the equivalent or better from a streamer without having the extra features lying dormant say that the NDX would bring then I would be down the shop tomorrow.
I guess the closest so far is the UnitiServe followed by a MacMini with bits hanging off it.

I don't think that Patrick is anywhere near blinkered in his replies. I think some folk just want an integrated Naim system to do everything that they require without looking elsewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by likesmusic:
So why is the nDAC suggested as an upgrade for the NDX?

It was said here in this topic by Naim, I think, I am lazy to find it out, but you can find it easily.

The extra PS for the DAC and the extra isolation of the extra chassis can be a good reason why it is upgrade and if you want more SPDIF inputs too.

Considering the price difference and the official statement that the nDAC will be an upgrade for the NDX, IMO the nDAC becomes now more attractive than before. Extra network facilities and radio are nice but my guess is the extra cost will be paid only for those people who don't want to mess with hifaces, pci audio cards and computers in general.

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff P:

quote:

Sooo..does that mean 24/192 HiRes downloaded FLAC files on the network will NOT play on the NDX?

Well since nobody has commented from Naim I assume this is correct

regards
Geoff

Not necessarily - the NDX does not play files directly from a network at all, that's an HDX function. It plays files from a UPnP server as it is a UPnP client ... it's up to the UPnP server to support being able to read the FLAC files and get them to the NDX.

Cheers

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by goldfinch:
Considering the price difference and the official statement that the nDAC will be an upgrade for the NDX, IMO the nDAC becomes now more attractive than before. Extra network facilities and radio are nice but my guess is the extra cost will be paid only for those people who don't want to mess with hifaces, pci audio cards and computers in general.

Hola Jose

You are spot on! DAC owners will, for sure, have the solution they want in time but as we know, the DAC is the best step for you and many others right now who have computer music and can get into the DAC.

Un saludo

Gordon

A note to those nice people at Naim Audio.

Dear All

On Sunday 12th my wife and I will be making the long, long journey to Salisbury (at great expense) to visit the exhibition of which you are a sponsor for one reason only, that is to see and hear the new NDX. This looks to be a really nice unit that will fit well into the range and is something we are looking for.

We feel that expecting to see the NDX is a natural expectation as how could you resist the opportunity to give it its first public showing in the companies home city, the city that has nurtured you from your early days, a city that is proud to have you in its midst? After all, the city may well feel snubbed if it was not shown.

Regards
Peter

P.S. Where’s my Qute? Any chance you bring that along as well? You could save on postage!



Right, see if that does the trick.

quote:

Originally posted by Harry K:
This has been asked but (unless I’ve missed it) not answered. NDX/nDAC/555PS – OK. I get that. Been there with CD players and the HDX. These upgrades are worthwhile but not essential in the first instance. Been there, done that, no issues. However, what benefit does putting an external power supply onto the NDX confer in addition? Is this a misunderstanding or are we really looking at a four box solution for absolute performance. With over seven grand’s worth of boxes taking care of NDX signal output, what can adding a PS to the NDX do to improve the signal stream being fed to the DAC?

Or am I being thick?

As with all the different combinations of upgrade possibilities that you have it's up to *YOU* to decide what you want to do and what you think is worthwhile given the investment just in the same way that it is completely up to you whether you want to run your 555 with two 555PSs.

I strongly suspect that most people will be very happy with an NDX as a single box solution with the *OPTIONS* of adding an XPS/555PS and/or DAC bringing similar improvements as they do on the HDX and our CD players ...

Phil