UnitiServe questions

Posted by: Alamanka on 10 May 2010

Reading on the web site about the new UnitiServe, I understand it will be able to rip, store and stream music. And there will be two versions: one version with internal hard drive, one version without.

I am personally interested in this product, but I am not so clear why I should prefer this product over a "classic" computer based configuration, using either a PC or Mac and some good ripping and media management softare.

So here are my own questions:

1) What is the benefit of the UnitiServe over a "classic" PC or a MAC using good ripping software?
Is this about convenience: user simply insert a CD and the system takes care of the rest without any further manual work?

2) Is the UnitiServe able to play a CD without ripping it first?

3) Will the UnitiServe without the hard drive cost less to purchase?

4) How to avoid the loss of data in case the internal hard drive fails? Will it be possible to store a back-up copy on-line?
Does the customer still need a local back-up solution?

5) For those users who do not wish to use Iphone as a controller, what will be the alternatives?

6) Does NaimAudio have any plan to develop a controller application on other mobile platform (Android, for instance)?

7) Does NaimAudio plans to enhance UnitiServe so that it can also handle DVD or BlueRay (video, movies etc...)?

Thank you.
Posted on: 10 May 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
Originally posted by Alamanka:
why I should prefer this product over a "classic" computer based configuration, using either a PC or Mac and some good ripping and media management softare.


You just need to listen to one feeding your DAC, then a PC through the same and decide if one sounds better than the other.
Posted on: 10 May 2010 by winkyincanada
A lot of people would prefer not to mix their computing and music. I get this. Although the UnitiServe is actually a computer in every technical sense, it should act like a HiFi component. Specialized function, quick boot (if any) and stable (hopefully). I really nice remote control app for my iPad and I'll be tempted.
Posted on: 11 May 2010 by Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by Alamanka:
So here are my own questions:

Not definitive answers ... but some facts I've discovered and assimilated to bring you some answers

quote:
1) What is the benefit of the UnitiServe over a "classic" PC or a MAC using good ripping software?
Is this about convenience: user simply insert a CD and the system takes care of the rest without any further manual work?

As I see it, this is two fold (maybe threefold not sure how my answer will pan out). First off, on the ripping front, a lot of thought and work has been put into the UnitiServe (well the HDX before it) to ensure that the data that is extracted from the CD is as close to perfect as possible. Yes you can do this with a PC (or Mac) using applications such as EAC, dbPowerAmp, etc. but you first need to spend time setting them up, etc. Along side the quality of the rip, with EAC, dbPowerAmp, etc you often need to correct the MetaData (Tags) afterwards - with the Naim AMC database not only is the information (where it exists - exotic recordings will fall back on the more common place Gracenote / FreeDB / MusicBrainz information) more comprehensive - i.e. Composer, Performer(s), Orchestra, Conductor, etc - but it's also manually created by specialists so should be (a) more accurate and (b) more consistent in format, etc. Secondly, the UnitiServe is also a high quality player (with digital only output). Price wise it may seam expensive, but given it's customised Operating System and output hardware it does have the potential to beat a common or garden PC or Mac system - compared to the prices of the "best" systems you arn't looking at a huge premium anyway. Finally there is the issue of (a) noise and (b) interface which you have to address with a "normal" computer.

quote:
2) Is the UnitiServe able to play a CD without ripping it first?

Not sure of a definitive answer - but given it is based on HDX system thats a distinct possibility.

quote:
3) Will the UnitiServe without the hard drive cost less to purchase?

No - even a 16GB SLC SSD does cost more than a 1TB "spinning" disk. I think the prices stated were £2000 for UnitiServe and £2250 for the UnitiServe-SSD

quote:
4) How to avoid the loss of data in case the internal hard drive fails? Will it be possible to store a back-up copy on-line? Does the customer still need a local back-up solution?

No details are given, but I would think a customer supplied "local" backup solution would be required given that the standard UnitiServe stores upto 1TB of music files this is rather impractical to backup online currently.

quote:
5) For those users who do not wish to use Iphone as a controller, what will be the alternatives?

I assume, like the HDX, a Flash browser will be able to control the UnitiServe, along with Naim Desktop Client. Alternatively a touchscreen monitor is another possibility I think.

quote:
6) Does NaimAudio have any plan to develop a controller application on other mobile platform (Android, for instance)?
7) Does NaimAudio plans to enhance UnitiServe so that it can also handle DVD or BlueRay (video, movies etc...)?

Naim doesn't tend to discuss their future plans. I would not expect that they will be branching into DVD and BluRay Video storage. High resolution music extracted from BluRays or DVD(A) with a computer could be accessed via the UnitiServe. A nice iPad based controller would be nice - as would the ability to control your Naim Pre-amp and DAC via the RS232 on the UnitiServe / HDX for a fully integrated system.

Hope I've helped a little. As I say I have no inside knowledge but this is putting together information from the Website, that I've read on this (and possibly other) forums and a few bits of guesses.
Posted on: 11 May 2010 by David Dever
If Android-based devices support Adobe Flash, the front-panel movie as seen on the HDX can be used as the GUI.
Posted on: 11 May 2010 by goldfinch
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
Hope I've helped a little.


A little? your post is very informative!

A "classic PC solution" could be interesting because of the cost but I agree with Eloise, once you tweak it to perform at its best, UnitiServe asking price makes sense to me. Of course we have to hear it first but I think there is a great oportunity for such a product not only in terms of promised top performance but also just because of convenience and ease of use.

You raise very interesting questions in relation with the future-proof factor.
Will be the UnitiServe upgradeable to future SSD/HD specs or Blueray drives among others? I don't know but I believe your PC will be more easy to upgrade...
I think HDX and UnitiServe and the forthcoming products like these will be evolving rapidly because computer audio is still at its infancy.
That's why I am willing to seeing a Naim pure streamer, letting ripping and storing tasks for the "upgradeable" computer.
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by Alamanka
quote:
Originally posted by winkyincanada:
A lot of people would prefer not to mix their computing and music. I get this. Although the UnitiServe is actually a computer in every technical sense, it should act like a HiFi component. Specialized function, quick boot (if any) and stable (hopefully). I really nice remote control app for my iPad and I'll be tempted.


This is perfectly summarized. I completely share your point of view and your vision.

But at the same time, how to completely eliminate computers from a file based music system?

a) Back-up/storage management: we need to back-up music files. This means adding NAS or hard drives, which are set and managed through a computer.

b) File organization: even if the system has a good way to organize the file by default. It is likely that it will not perfectly suit individual preferences. Again, there is a need for file management and the most convenient interface for this is a computer.

c) Browsing, searching, selecting the music to play. Users need to search potentially through hundreds or thousands of items of the collection. The controller must be responsive and have a large enough screen.

Mobile phones are rather slow, they have a small screen and they are personal devices (not shared) that stay with the owner and not with the system like a remote. It is not the ideal solution.

Ipad or a similar tablet? Yes the screen is probably good enough. Performance needs to be evaluated. But then, if you need to introduce some Apple component in the mix in order to have a good controller, then a lot of people will wonder why not also use a MacMini for the ripping and streaming?

Best regards.
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by pcstockton
Nice Eloise. Spot on.

quote:
Originally posted by Alamanka:

c) Browsing, searching, selecting the music to play. Users need to search potentially through hundreds or thousands of items of the collection. The controller must be responsive and have a large enough screen.

Mobile phones are rather slow, they have a small screen and they are personal devices (not shared) that stay with the owner and not with the system like a remote. It is not the ideal solution.


I couldn't love using the iPhone as a controller of my Foobar any more than I do. It is perfect. I dont want or need a larger screen unless more function was brought to the table.

And it is as fast as you could imagine.

If anyone uses Foobar and has an iPhone/Touch, go to wintense.com. money.

-patrick
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by Jack
One other aspect to consider is the flexibility the PC/Mac provides. Whilst I'm also interested in the UnitiServe I really enjoy discovering new music via Spotify. It's likely there will be more online music services in the years to come, the PC/Mac provides the flexibility needed to initially utilise these services.

Jack
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by winkyincanada
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
Nice Eloise. Spot on.

quote:
Originally posted by Alamanka:

c) Browsing, searching, selecting the music to play. Users need to search potentially through hundreds or thousands of items of the collection. The controller must be responsive and have a large enough screen.

Mobile phones are rather slow, they have a small screen and they are personal devices (not shared) that stay with the owner and not with the system like a remote. It is not the ideal solution.


I couldn't love using the iPhone as a controller of my Foobar any more than I do. It is perfect. I dont want or need a larger screen unless more function was brought to the table.

And it is as fast as you could imagine.

If anyone uses Foobar and has an iPhone/Touch, go to wintense.com. money.

-patrick


I with PC on this one. I use and iPod touch. the "remote" app and iTunes, but the same conclusion. Just brilliant. And as fast as could be. It would have to read my mind to be any faster. I'm still surprised by the reponse speed every time I use it. Instantaneous. I can't fathom how they do that.

Provided the iPad version brings some extra functionality to fill the larger screen, it will be better still.
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by AMA
quote:
What is the benefit of the UnitiServe over a "classic" PC or a MAC using good ripping software?


1. It's silent

2. You don't need to reboot it three times a day

3. You don't need to monitor viruses

4. You are free from freezing the bitstream while copying the data

5. You are free from multiple options, settings and hassles.

6. You are secured from your son to grab it for urgent home work because his has just broken a screen on his own laptop.

7. It looks cool on the rack.
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by pcstockton
1. Have you heard it running yet? I didnt know it was available. Anyway, PCs and Macs can be made to run just as quietly.

2. Are you sure? Could be like any other computer. Who needs to reboot multiple times a day? Hyperbole at its finest.

3. Well if you dont download porn and use it for receiving email you should be just fine.

4. eh?

5. Yeah options suck. Who wants to rip to FLAC or MP3 for an ipod? Who wants to be able to burn a CD for their car? Who wants to stream a little Pandora every once and a while?

6. What keeps them from grabbing your CD Player or speakers?

7. Who wants a computer on their rack regardless of how quiet it is. Of course none of the below are necessary or

A) You can use any interface or media player you want. Have it look and interact any way you like.
B) Check something online like a Wiki to get a Bio of someone new.
C) Expandable
D) Less expensive
E) Keyboard and mouse (only if you want)
F) User friendly for issues/problems/upgrades, i.e. no need for a "dealer" to assist.
G) Can double as a legit computer for other uses (games, work, email, music, web etc)
H) DVD Player
I) Handles video streaming
J) Porn
K) Encourages hiding it in a closet
L) Who cares if it breaks, dies, requires bigger drives etc.... It is cheap to maintain and own.
M) Will not be easily obsoleted until it likely breaks
N) Can be made silent
O) Could use other methods of streaming than UPnP, or things such as streamlink or whatever.
P) Burning CDs for your car
Q) Rip CDs to other codecs with whatever tagging you want.
R) Not restricted to Apple devices running computer headless.
S) Stream music or any content, from any number of online "stations".
T) Listen to a football match (pandering)
U) Can easily be sold or moved along for other activities should you decide the LP12 is all you need.
V) You need one for feeding and/or controlling the Unitiserve. Not directly maybe but tell me anyone who will buy this thing and not use it with a PC in some fashion.
W) You have one already you can use.
X) You can do it for about $350
Y) Gives the incessant tweaker more to obsess on
Z) You can buy one today.


That said, I would trade in my PC for one in a heartbeat. Smile
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by David Dever
UnitiServe utilizes same hypervisor as HDX-i.e., restarts system services if there is a crash or error that might otherwise hang the system

Naim-written UPnP server provides relational metadata (including broad search by person) for albums ripped to local or network storage

Gapless playback at 192kHz

Did I miss something that the Mac mini or an off-the-shelf PC cannot do?
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by Alamanka
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
quote:
Originally posted by Alamanka:
So here are my own questions:

Not definitive answers ... but some facts I've discovered and assimilated to bring you some answers

quote:
1) What is the benefit of the UnitiServe over a "classic" PC or a MAC using good ripping software?
Is this about convenience: user simply insert a CD and the system takes care of the rest without any further manual work?

As I see it, this is two fold (maybe threefold not sure how my answer will pan out). First off, on the ripping front, a lot of thought and work has been put into the UnitiServe (well the HDX before it) to ensure that the data that is extracted from the CD is as close to perfect as possible. Yes you can do this with a PC (or Mac) using applications such as EAC, dbPowerAmp, etc. but you first need to spend time setting them up, etc. Along side the quality of the rip, with EAC, dbPowerAmp, etc you often need to correct the MetaData (Tags) afterwards - with the Naim AMC database not only is the information (where it exists - exotic recordings will fall back on the more common place Gracenote / FreeDB / MusicBrainz information) more comprehensive - i.e. Composer, Performer(s), Orchestra, Conductor, etc - but it's also manually created by specialists so should be (a) more accurate and (b) more consistent in format, etc. Secondly, the UnitiServe is also a high quality player (with digital only output). Price wise it may seam expensive, but given it's customised Operating System and output hardware it does have the potential to beat a common or garden PC or Mac system - compared to the prices of the "best" systems you arn't looking at a huge premium anyway. Finally there is the issue of (a) noise and (b) interface which you have to address with a "normal" computer.


Eloise, thank you. Your explanation clarifies the value in offering some off-the-shelf, high quality ripping/streaming component.

A dedicated high quality remote controller from Naim should complete the "Uniti" solution.

Regards,
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by JYOW
Well a combination of both is best.

I run a Macbook Pro and a Squeezebox Touch both feeding the DAC. When I do not feel like looking at a PC or my iPhone, I just grab the Squeezebox legacy remote and browse the Squeezebox screen,

Unfortunately Logitech screwed up big time by emulating the Naim HDX and out a multi line "touch screen" on their front. With the transporter and even the Squeezebox 2, I could see the one line green letter perfectly from across the room. Now it is little letter menus that even I with 20/20 struggles to see what's playing.

A touch screen on the hifi rack is just so counter intuitive.

I really wish Naim had put a Squeezebox 2/Transporter like screen on their media streamer. It is a major step up on usability.

Every maker knows enough to make a nice sounding digital music client. But to make one that is usable and "sticky", IMO Sean Adams ex-Slim Devices had it down long time ago.
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by Alamanka
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:

A) You can use any interface or media player you want. Have it look and interact any way you like.
B) Check something online like a Wiki to get a Bio of someone new.
C) Expandable
D) Less expensive
E) Keyboard and mouse (only if you want)
F) User friendly for issues/problems/upgrades, i.e. no need for a "dealer" to assist.
G) Can double as a legit computer for other uses (games, work, email, music, web etc)
H) DVD Player
I) Handles video streaming
J) Porn
K) Encourages hiding it in a closet
L) Who cares if it breaks, dies, requires bigger drives etc.... It is cheap to maintain and own.
M) Will not be easily obsoleted until it likely breaks
N) Can be made silent
O) Could use other methods of streaming than UPnP, or things such as streamlink or whatever.
P) Burning CDs for your car
Q) Rip CDs to other codecs with whatever tagging you want.
R) Not restricted to Apple devices running computer headless.
S) Stream music or any content, from any number of online "stations".
T) Listen to a football match (pandering)
U) Can easily be sold or moved along for other activities should you decide the LP12 is all you need.
V) You need one for feeding and/or controlling the Unitiserve. Not directly maybe but tell me anyone who will buy this thing and not use it with a PC in some fashion.
W) You have one already you can use.
X) You can do it for about $350
Y) Gives the incessant tweaker more to obsess on
Z) You can buy one today.


That said, I would trade in my PC for one in a heartbeat. Smile


The refinements of the soundtracks evoked on point J) provide a strong new argument toward a direct connection of the computer with a high-end audio system.

This could be a rather important missing feature on the UnitiServe...
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
Originally posted by Alamanka:


The refinements of the soundtracks evoked on point J) provide a strong new argument toward a direct connection of the computer with a high-end audio system.

This could be a rather important missing feature on the UnitiServe...


How could they have possibly missed this.
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by rich46
uniserve ...... i wonder who made the slot it transport for naim, i use the ripnas/1 tera £850 recommended by linn ,it uses a teac drive .

ripped 2900 cds and its worked perfect
Posted on: 13 May 2010 by AMA
quote:
1. Have you heard it running yet? I didnt know it was available. Anyway, PCs and Macs can be made to run just as quietly.

2. Are you sure? Could be like any other computer. Who needs to reboot multiple times a day? Hyperbole at its finest.

3. Well if you dont download porn and use it for receiving email you should be just fine.

4. eh?

5. Yeah options suck. Who wants to rip to FLAC or MP3 for an ipod? Who wants to be able to burn a CD for their car? Who wants to stream a little Pandora every once and a while?

6. What keeps them from grabbing your CD Player or speakers?

7. Who wants a computer on their rack regardless of how quiet it is. Of course none of the below are necessary or

1. My TP is dumb.

2. My TP never freezes up

3. My M-Audio Transit and HiFace drivers constantly suck and needs rebooting (both on XP and Windows 7 machines) when you change between WMP, Foobar and Skype. HiFace is a bit better than M-Audio -- but sometimes it just stops working and need rebooting. I think designers of both were watching a lot of porn.

4. When I copy large data my Foobar gets stuck for a second -- I hate this.

5. Many people are not that prone to PC games -- what is easy for you is the headache for others. I use computer all day long and I hate it -- I don't want to mess it up with music replay Smile

6. Modern kids don't care of CD players and speakers -- they are slaves of internet, mp3 and boom-boxes.

7. Smile
Posted on: 14 May 2010 by Andy S
quote:
Originally posted by AMA:
1. My TP is dumb.

2. My TP never freezes up

3. My M-Audio Transit and HiFace drivers constantly suck and needs rebooting (both on XP and Windows 7 machines) when you change between WMP, Foobar and Skype. HiFace is a bit better than M-Audio -- but sometimes it just stops working and need rebooting. I think designers of both were watching a lot of porn.

4. When I copy large data my Foobar gets stuck for a second -- I hate this.

5. Many people are not that prone to PC games -- what is easy for you is the headache for others. I use computer all day long and I hate it -- I don't want to mess it up with music replay Smile

6. Modern kids don't care of CD players and speakers -- they are slaves of internet, mp3 and boom-boxes.

7. Smile
You can get quite stable PCs that you can skin to look like media devices that you wouldn't know were computers unless you looked under the bonnet. I drive mine with a remote and it can be skinned in a variety of different ways such as a coverflow interface (for example - not mine, but gives you an idea of what can be achieved nowadays):

Posted on: 14 May 2010 by gav111n
Since getting the MBP/HiFace/nDAC, I am surprised how important pcstockton’s point (S) has become. I now listen to a lot of streamed radio (e.g Paul Jones, Mike Harding, Bob Harris on BBC radio2, BBC 6 music, Planetrock). I am amazed how good the sound quality is.

I can do this and play my ripped CDs from a neat little MBP, quick start, instant shut down, no reboots (so far). For me, the UnitiServe would have to be a big step up on sound quality to bother adding another box into my system.
Posted on: 14 May 2010 by Eloise
I don't get some of the people posting on here ...

Naim is not saying that you have to buy a UnitiServe to use with your DAC - they are ust offering another option. You might like it, you might prefer to stick with your Dell PC in the closet, or your Mac Mini on your rack - so why all the negativity.

I'm (pretty) sure Naim have spent a lot of time building the best SPDIF output they can (within a reasonable budget). The UnitiServe costs what it does based on (a) component costs - hey it's basically a computer so even retail the costs arn't huge I know; (b) development costs - Naim will sell a hell of a lot less of these than Apple do of a Mac Mini, and that's true even if it was £600 and (c) a reasonable profit for them and their dealers.

If you want to use a computer with a full Media Center interface like XMBC (I think that is what was posted) then great, do it. If you want a basic Windows display and Foobar (either plain or customised) do that. If you want a well box that should sit there day after day doing a single task and (we can assume) do it well, with no need to worry about it's internals (just like it's a CD player), Naim have designed the UnitiServe for you.

You have options guys - Naim can't built exactly what everyone wants - they have to try to cover lots of bases! So why get so aggressive when you can reply. Educate people the options sure, but no need to be so aggressive about it. It's not a Squeezebox, it's not a PC, it's not a Mac, its a Naim UnitiServe and is ANOTHER option for those who want it.

Eloise

PS. A.M.A.s point 5 is the perfect point ... the Naim UnitiServe is a single purpose device (no customisation); a PC or Mac is infinitely customisable in functionality ... you pays your money and takes your choice. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME DEVICES so stop trying to compare them in that way!
Posted on: 14 May 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
Originally posted by AMA:

3. My M-Audio Transit and HiFace drivers constantly suck and needs rebooting (both on XP and Windows 7 machines) when you change between WMP, Foobar and Skype. HiFace is a bit better than M-Audio -- but sometimes it just stops working and need rebooting. I think designers of both were watching a lot of porn.

4. When I copy large data my Foobar gets stuck for a second -- I hate this.


Strange. In all seriousness, something is up with your computer. With 80K tracks in FLAC, my Foobar is lickity split. Even running a somewhat resource intensive configuration.



And I have never once need to reboot the M-Audio drivers? Exactly what does that mean? Unplugging the USB on the Transit to interrupt the power?

When you say "when I copy large data", what are you referring to? Scanning your hard drive for music, i.e. Setting up the Album List/Media Library? This takes time with any player.

Lastly, if your kid only want iPods and Playstations, that is your fault my friend.
Posted on: 14 May 2010 by pcstockton
Eloise,

Who is getting aggressive?

If you are referring to me i was just playfully stating a few reason why a PC is nice.

Dont get me wrong, my last comment was sincere. I would take one of these UNitiServes in a second. I bet it is awesome.

It would take some getting used to to not have a badass Foobar configuration, but I bet I would get passed that. UI is pretty important to me. I also like having the above Foobar config available for the HDTV when guests come over. They can look around, read lyrics and the bios etc... Then select music with my BlueTooth mouse.

All of my buddies who have iPhone are connected to my Foobar so they can instantly take over with the Remote app. (some even like to drive by and change my music on the fly.... When ABBA interrupts my music out of the blue I only need to look out my window and see someone laughing at me from behind the wheel.)

It's all in good fun.

But if the Uniserve sounds as good as I imagine, offers the ability to remove all other computers from my hifi space, and the UI is acceptable, I will be hunting one down in no time.

Cheers!
-Patrick
Posted on: 14 May 2010 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
Originally posted by Andy S:
That truly is the worst interface I have ever seen - I'll have nightmares now ... is there an erase forever function.

She died with her telly on, 87 and confused
With not enough hospital beds cos all the money’s been used
On the end of the century party preparations
And they reckon that the last thing she saw in her life was
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican


Nigel Blackwell from A Country Practice

The saddest lyric I have ever heard, as it recounts a true happening on the eve of the millennium - after which I prayed Sting would be for ever banned, but then he return with this insult to anybody who loves traditional music. If you want authentic medieval genius try Blackmore's Night, but please, please, not Sting.
Posted on: 14 May 2010 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andy S:
That truly is the worst interface I have ever seen - I'll have nightmares now ... is there an erase forever function.

She died with her telly on, 87 and confused
With not enough hospital beds cos all the money’s been used
On the end of the century party preparations
And they reckon that the last thing she saw in her life was
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican


Nigel Blackwell from A Country Practice

The saddest lyric I have ever heard, as it recounts a true happening on the eve of the millennium - after which I prayed Sting would be for ever banned, but then he returns with this insult to anybody who loves traditional music. If you want authentic medieval genius try Blackmore's Night, but please, please, not Sting. Now I know wh you think all transports sound the same Big Grin