Another new DAC

thank you phil and aleg fro clearing up.

yes it is ment to use the ridge,just to connect the serve for look up of cd while ripping. no streaming !! i just want to save to lay another cable in the room. this puts me so off, that i would skip that kind of solution. but if a bridge function for that purpose it is fine.

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Originally posted by Geoff P:

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:

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Just for clarification these functions are not needed inside the Linn DS boxes. They are provided by the media server software

Not true–you still need a internal software stack to make this happen (e.g., Cara).

....and Naim doesn't ?? What drives your box screens?

I'm not sure you fully understand the low-level stuff going on to make it all happen - but it is fair to say that not every company has the expertise to develop network streaming hardware and the software / firmware to drive it (let alone to control it from an external device of arbitrary architecture).

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
I'm not sure you fully understand the low-level stuff going on to make it all happen - but it is fair to say that not every company has the expertise to develop network streaming hardware and the software / firmware to drive it (let alone to control it from an external device of arbitrary architecture).

So perhaps indeed I don't fully understand....but it seems your point is presumably that Linn is an exception because it has.

Linn is not Rega is not Naim - each possesses their own strengths.

Lack of a branded iOS app is a deal breaker in this market - lack of a streaming music platform establishes an outer limit for growth.

David is absolutely right. The established audiophile brands have never been in networks and streaming and GUI. It's not a matter of one engineer or buying a ready solution on the open market. The whole audiophile industry should learn how to do and support these things properly -- developing the proprietary solutions in-house. It's similar to development of CDs in 80-s. Sony/Philips started it and many others were just watching how it will go on the market and the market has blown up with in-house CDPs of all brands.

The streaming will not take long and I'm sure most of the audiophile brands are doing in-house research now and soon they all will come up with UPNP client solution (next 2-3 years). Obviously development of proprietary UPNP servers will take longer time but still there is no rocket since in this and I believe it will take another 2-3 years. Possibly it will all happen earlier.

We have to acknowledge that Linn/Naim are really ahead of all the others in terms of variety and quality of streaming solutions. At the same time I can't ignore the fact that american Slim Devices built Transporter something like 5 years before Linn/Naim and this wonderful streamer holds it's value until now -- even though the company is dissolved in Logitech and audiophile developments are suspended and Sean has left a company. I still consider it as one of the best digital transports on the market -- and the ultimately best in GUI.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Harris:
Hasn't this discussion been had?

A DAC is something that takes an S/PDIF bitstream from a transport and converts it into analogue audio.

If you're wanting something that attaches to Ethernet and streams from a UPnP source then that is a renderer which is a much different device and needs a user inerface and much more complex processing to allow navigation, browsing, searching and selection etc.

Hope that clears up the distinction between teh two devices.

Cheers

Phil

With risk of adding further confusion, as this technology is evolving, there is no reason why a DAC could not use Ethernet as it's digital input transport medium, and have another device on the network acting as it's renderer. Imagine it like a network attached printer, but printing music as opposed to words or an Internet radio tuned into your own single radio station. I am experimenting with such an approach at present. The challenge would appear less in the network data application side or session management side which is relatively trivial, but more in the traditional area of getting the DAC to sound good using Ethernet streamed audio, but at this point this becomes a common challenge across many types of devices. This is why I am looking forward to hear the NDX.

Simon

quote:

Originally posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Harris:
Hasn't this discussion been had?

A DAC is something that takes an S/PDIF bitstream from a transport and converts it into analogue audio.

If you're wanting something that attaches to Ethernet and streams from a UPnP source then that is a renderer which is a much different device and needs a user inerface and much more complex processing to allow navigation, browsing, searching and selection etc.

Hope that clears up the distinction between teh two devices.

Cheers

Phil

With risk of adding further confusion, as this technology is evolving, there is no reason why a DAC could not use Ethernet as it's digital input transport medium, and have another device on the network acting as it's renderer. Imagine it like a network attached printer, but printing music as opposed to words or an Internet radio tuned into your own single radio station. I am experimenting with such an approach at present. The challenge would appear less in the network data application side or session management side which is relatively trivial, but more in the traditional area of getting the DAC to sound good using Ethernet streamed audio, but at this point this becomes a common challenge across many types of devices. This is why I am looking forward to hear the NDX.

Simon

Link-level Ethernet-based transmission and control networks are possible, but they require specialized hardware and cannot be bridged in the same way one might use a wireless router or access point to extend the reach of a TCP/IP network. This is a non-starter for consumer-configurable wireless networked audio, and expensive to license for a small specialist consumer electronics manufacturer.

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
Link-level Ethernet-based transmission and control networks are possible, but they require specialized hardware and cannot be bridged in the same way one might use a wireless router or access point to extend the reach of a TCP/IP network. This is a non-starter for consumer-configurable wireless networked audio, and expensive to license for a small specialist consumer electronics manufacturer.

Hi - no you miss the point the session is not establised at layer 2, but the DAC is just set to receive an digital RTP stream. It works well. Certainly no licencesing - all standard protocls are used.
Sort of progrssion of the Squeexebox idea. Certainly no harder to set up than a Logitech SB scenario which is used for consumers

Simon

Due to my lack of knowledge about all things DAC's I somewhat shamefully derailed my own thread!

So, back on topic, since the Rega DAC has now been about for a little while, has anyone heard one yet? I am thinking at this price point, it might suit my second system [SONOS/5i/N-Sats].

Other alternatives could possibly be a s/h Lxxxx or even a GigaDAC which Tony M has put me onto.

At the moment I am using an Arcam Delta Black Box [yes, remember those from the 80's] which is a huge step up from the SONOS bare, but I feel I want more. In the longer term though I can see myself with an NDX if I like it and it does not have any "issues".

Julian

Hi Julian

I can't comment on the Rega, but I have been enjoying an Arcam rDAC since December 1. This was approx. $500 USD. Inputs are one optical, one coaxial and one asynchronous USB (fewer total connects than the Rega). I am currently using the optical from the headphone (digital out) connection on my MacBook Pro.

I have ordered a 7m Wireworld USB cable which will be my preferred connection if it ever arrives. I tried a short USB cable with the rDAC and on a short trial it seemed to me to be the better connection.

I sincerely wish I could afford the nDAC, but it is out of my reach. The Arcam rDAC is meeting my needs very nicely.

regards
Jeff A

The M2Tech Young has just come out with astonishing specs and superb USB credentials. Italian made with a good pedigree it may come very close to the nDac and at just under £700 it only needs to come close- who knows it may even be better.

Tog

quote:

at just under £700 it only needs to come close- who knows it may even be better.

Of course it is, because it is cheaper.

Always knew you'd go for that one...

Merry Christmas David

Well I bought the new Rega DAC today. My local NAIM dealer had a new one in stock

I auditioned it against the nDac and you know what there was not an awful lot between them. On some material the nDac exercised a little more calmness and bass control, but personally, I thought the Rega was perhaps a more enjoyable "foot tapping" listen.

I think my dealer was a little perplexed!

If you are in the market for DAC then give this new Rega an audition as you may be pleasantly surprised.

IMO there is much bigger gains to be had between the Arcam DAC (£300) to Musical Fidelity M1 (£400) and to the Rega (£500), than there is between the Rega and the nDac.

Gary

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Posted Sat 08 January 2011 21:33 Hide Post
Well I bought the new Rega DAC today. My local NAIM dealer had a new one in stock

I auditioned it against the nDac and you know what there was not an awful lot between them. On some material the nDac exercised a little more calmness and bass control, but personally, I thought the Rega was perhaps a more enjoyable "foot tapping" listen.

I think my dealer was a little perplexed!

If you are in the market for DAC then give this new Rega an audition as you may be pleasantly surprised.

IMO there is much bigger gains to be had between the Arcam DAC (£300) to Musical Fidelity M1 (£400) and to the Rega (£500), than there is between the Rega and the nDac.

Gary

Always the way when you step up the slope of value for money which means so many different things to so many different people. I am a Rega dealer in addition to Naim and have some of these on order and am definately happy to have something to offer folks that either can't or won't reach to the NDac. I am anxious to give one a thorough going over in the weeks to come.

quote:

Originally posted by GaryP:
I auditioned it against the nDac and you know what there was not an awful lot between them.

Hi Gary,

What source(s) were/are you using? Have you had a chance to play with the filters?

Thanks

The Rega Dac looks intriguing since it comes from a company with a similarly eccentric
approach to hifi as Naim.

Love to hear one, my dealer tells me they are definitely something special.

Tog

quote:

Originally posted by Wazza69:

quote:

Originally posted by GaryP:
I auditioned it against the nDac and you know what there was not an awful lot between them.

Hi Gary,

What source(s) were/are you using? Have you had a chance to play with the filters?

Thanks

At my dealer I was using an Audio Analogue Crescendo CD player as a transport (TEAC transport). I bought one of these a couple of months back to replace my CD3.5 until I really decided whether distributed audio was for me. At that time I auditioned the Audio Analogue with the nDac, and then nDac improved the sound in pretty much all respects as you would rightly expect.

I am also streaming Apple Lossless and AIIF to it via an Airport Express using a Chord Opticord with good results.

Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking the nDAC, but the differences are not "black and white". Whereas I would say they are between the Arcam < < MF < Rega.

Rest of the system was 152XS/155XS/FC2X and using Kudos X2 at the dealers and Neat Motive 2 at home.

Not yet played with the filters, just left it on the recommended Filter 1 for the moment.

As I say I think the dealer was more surprised than me.

Also, the Rega is very nicely put together it has a really quality feel, yes small (which I have now decided is a plus point but may not be to everyones liking), but solidly built and heavy for its size.

I accept that in a higher end system or with different transports/streamers etc the differences may be more pronounced with the nDAC, but for £500 the Rega is remarkable

I expect they will sell well, IMO.

Gary

Review in latest Tone Audio.

James

See issue 34 of Tone Audio for a review.

James

Read it James - now even more interested ..
... it seems to be getting a real buzz - shame about the USB input - missed opportunity - which is why I like the M2Tech Young.

Tog

quote:

... it seems to be getting a real buzz - shame about the USB input - missed opportunity -which is why I like the M2Tech Young.

The Young sounds good eh?
PS. I don't think Rega thinks the USB being 16/44.1 is a liabilty.

quote:

Originally posted by realhifi:

quote:

... it seems to be getting a real buzz - shame about the USB input - missed opportunity -which is why I like the M2Tech Young.

The Young sounds good eh?
PS. I don't think Rega thinks the USB being 16/44.1 is a liabilty.

The Young cooks to 32/384 amongst other things and will either fall to bits in a gorgeous Italian Alfa Romeo sort of way or sound cosmically beautiful like a Masserati Quattroporte. Either way I'm intrigued.

Tog

"Similar to Simaudio and a few other manufacturers, they have chosen to concentrate their effort on the SPDIF inputs for now as a way to get high resolution digital files into their DAC."

Interesting. Sounds familiar.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
"Similar to Simaudio and a few other manufacturers, they have chosen to concentrate their effort on the SPDIF inputs for now as a way to get high resolution digital files into their DAC."

Interesting. Sounds familiar.

Not very surprising in a £500 unit. Better to maximise a widely used protocol than possibly compromise it.

Joe