Squeezebox Touch soft mod which truly improves sound quality?
Posted by: Flextreme on 11 January 2011
Hey guys, I thought it would be worthwhile to share this (completely safe and ready within 30 minutes) Squeezebox tweaking/mod guide I found.
I found it by accident browsing the slimdevices forum:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 Goto
http://soundcheck-audio.blogsp...ouch-toolbox-20.html Here you will find helpful and clear instructions. A new mod was released only a couple of days ago. The idea is to disable as much as possible on the SB Touch, which helps free resources and decreases interference caused by the internal electronics and CPU.
I have a SB Touch (org. PSU) > Coax > Supernait (Hicapped) > NACA5 > Harbeth SuperHL5
On my setup I -think- I can clearly notice an improvement. However, I do not trust my own judgement, as I learned through experience that is so easy to fool yourself in respect to sound quality improvements. I was (and still am) skeptical since the SuperNait dac re-clocks the digital signal and find it difficult to believe it's possible to tweak a digital signal.
However, this software mod (which can be easily switched on/off) seems to really make a difference after a couple of tests, comparing default settings and the mod. Specifically, more resolution, focus and treble extension (the latter is extremely welcome on the already 'darker' sound of both the Supernait and the Harbeth).
There are many recommendations in this guide (Wi-Fi to Ethernet, stream Flacs as PCM, and disabled the Screen ,etc...) I followed all recommendations except the PSU upgrade, since the SB Touch PSU is much better than the SB 3.
I set the buffer to 4000 (Command: ttbuffer 4000)
Because I disabled the screen, I need to control the SB with iPeng on my iPhone, which is fine. (although not an issue, because iPeng is used, a side effect of this mod is that using the official SB remote control now makes weird crackling noise in the audio)
After installing a free SSH client on my iPhone it is quite simple to control the mods directly through command-line from the couch. It is possible to save the modded configuration so you can easily switch between the modded and default settings.
Although I am not a NAIM DAC owner, I wonder if this mod brings the sound quality of the Squeezebox stream on the same level as direct attached USB stick on the NAIM DAC.
I am super interested if anyone tried it yet and did some critical listening. I need to give it a couple of days to make sure my mind is not playing tricks on me, but so far I have been very impressed.
Regards,
Jeroen
Posted on: 11 January 2011 by matpip
Thanks Jeroen!
I have a very similar setup, and a brand new SB touch. I'll try to mod mine as well! I also have the Controller, so disabling the screen will not be a big deal for me...
Posted on: 11 January 2011 by AMA
quote:
I was (and still am) skeptical since the SuperNait dac re-clocks the digital signal and find it difficult to believe it's possible to tweak a digital signal.
Jeroen, what makes you thinking SN re-clocks the input bitstream? AFAIK it doesn't.
Posted on: 11 January 2011 by Flextreme
From the NAIM website:
"With analogue inputs through both DIN and phono sockets, digital inputs through both coaxial and optical sockets, a combined digital optical/analogue front panel input and on-board re-clocked digital to analogue conversion, there is very little that SUPERNAIT cannot handle."
http://www.naimaudio.com/hifi-product-range/599Posted on: 11 January 2011 by js
There's an ASRC available that becomes engaged beyong some threshold of incoming jitter. Generally, it will reclock SBs and Sonos. Basically at the point where it improves things instead of making them worse.
Posted on: 11 January 2011 by AMA
Flextreme, there is nothing like this down the link. Can you check it again?
Posted on: 11 January 2011 by Flextreme
Posted on: 11 January 2011 by AMA
quote:
Originally posted by js:
There's an ASRC available that becomes engaged beyong some threshold of incoming jitter. Generally, it will reclock SBs and Sonos. Basically at the point where it improves things instead of making them worse.
js, it's interesting. Do you mean that SN works in the same way as nDAC? Trying to fit one of the 10 built-in clocks: 1. if succeed then buffer the bitstream into a built-in memory and then clocks the buffer with the same built-in clock and 2. if it fails it recovers a clock using ASRC thus changing/adjusting the clock continuously. Is that right?
Posted on: 11 January 2011 by Flextreme
quote:
Originally posted by js:
There's an ASRC available that becomes engaged beyong some threshold of incoming jitter. Generally, it will reclock SBs and Sonos. Basically at the point where it improves things instead of making them worse.
Then the theory would be that the mod lowers jitter below this threshold? Are there other ways to improve the bitstream from a SB?
Posted on: 11 January 2011 by Flextreme
It seems like I started a double post about this topic, this thread just was moved from the Hi-Fi Corner. I did a search on this topic before posting to prevent a double post, however, only searched in Hifi-Corner.
Apologies...
Posted on: 11 January 2011 by likesmusic
I believe the Sync light on the Naim DAC goes out when it is forced to fall back to ASRC, so there's no need to speculate about the effects of the mod. If an unmodded Touch doesn't get sync but a modded one does, then the mods make a difference (and prove the Touch is pretty crummy). If however an unmodded Touch manages to get Sync, then what more is there to be gained?
Posted on: 11 January 2011 by Flextreme
quote:
Originally posted by likesmusic:
I believe the Sync light on the Naim DAC goes out when it is forced to fall back to ASRC, so there's no need to speculate about the effects of the mod. If an unmodded Touch doesn't get sync but a modded one does, then the mods make a difference (and prove the Touch is pretty crummy). If however an unmodded Touch manages to get Sync, then what more is there to be gained?
I use the Supernait DAC, it does not have sync light. If the nDAC does, it would be indeed the ultimate proof the mod works. Interesting indeed.
Posted on: 11 January 2011 by js
Reclocking for jitter and lock are 2 different things and no the SN doesn't operate like the nDAC. Very standard modern type input circuit except that it automatically allows for no reclocking if the signal is clean enough. A standard Touch locked our nDAC fine as does a Sonos.
Posted on: 12 January 2011 by Flextreme
Ok, just finished a couple of A/B testing with Agnes Obel - Just So.
The difference (especially in regard to treble extension and imaging/realism) seems subtle but surely noticeable.
It's rather easy to switch: I only have to type on the shh console running om my iPhone either "tt -e" to enable all mods and "tt -d" to disable all mods. The SB Touch will automatically reboot and replay the song that was selected.
Because there is about 20 seconds between each reboot, the A/B comparison is not instant and I still do not trust my own judgement.
To satisfy my own curiosity I will create a script this weekend to truly do many blind A/B tests which will randomize the disabled/enabling of the mod. When I will be able to identify the mod status after each reboot (better than 66%) then it will be difficult to dismiss the impact.
If I am not able to tell the difference, I leave the mod (because it does no harm and I love it subjectively), and I'll accept/reconfirm the fact that it is indeed just too easy to fool yourself in regards to subtle sound improvements. :-)
Anyone out there did some critical evaluation of this mod? What is your opinion?
Posted on: 13 January 2011 by Asenna04
quote:
Originally posted by Flextreme:
Ok, just finished a couple of A/B testing with Agnes Obel - Just So.
The difference (especially in regard to treble extension and imaging/realism) seems subtle but surely noticeable.
It's rather easy to switch: I only have to type on the shh console running om my iPhone either "tt -e" to enable all mods and "tt -d" to disable all mods. The SB Touch will automatically reboot and replay the song that was selected.
Because there is about 20 seconds between each reboot, the A/B comparison is not instant and I still do not trust my own judgement.
To satisfy my own curiosity I will create a script this weekend to truly do many blind A/B tests which will randomize the disabled/enabling of the mod. When I will be able to identify the mod status after each reboot (better than 66%) then it will be difficult to dismiss the impact.
If I am not able to tell the difference, I leave the mod (because it does no harm and I love it subjectively), and I'll accept/reconfirm the fact that it is indeed just too easy to fool yourself in regards to subtle sound improvements. :-)
Anyone out there did some critical evaluation of this mod? What is your opinion?
Flextreme,
This sounds great. Please share your findigs.
ASenna04
Posted on: 13 January 2011 by Flextreme
Cool, I just compared my old SB 3 (synced) to the modded SQ Touch on my SuperNait. Because there is almost no delay switching back and forward (the supernait DAC takes about a second switching digital inputs), it was quite easy to compare.
When I originally compared the touch to the SB3 after purchasing, it was extremely difficult to tell the difference. (mayby this is caused by the reclocking feature in the Supernait DAC)
I compared the Touch with both the mod enabled and disabled to the SB 3.
Guys... this is the real deal.
Doing A/B comparisons between the unmodded Touch and SB3 ... they were very similar, like expected.
Comparing the modded Touch to the SB3 is a revelation. The difference is large enough to make a blind A/B test obsolete and a waste of my time.
Clearly more detail in all frequencies (not only the treble as I originally thought). The result is: More AIR / Ambiance / Better positioning-separation of instruments / 3D rendering of the soundstage / realism.
Highs do have more “impact/dynamics”, which is very welcome with the 'darker' sound of both my Supernait and Harbeth Super HL5. Textures are much better, especially with classical instruments.
The considerable level of added resolution has the additional advantage that you get more musical impact at lower volume.
What is so cool about this, before the mod I always felt I was missing out on something. I truly considered changing my set-up. Mayby go back to Nait 5i (that is where my NAIM love started), downgrade to Nait XS, mayby nDac would fix things. Or even change speakers (was considering PMC Fact.8).
I thought I hit the limits of my system after the high-cap upgrade (which is undoubtely a fantastic upgrade), and especially that the resolution of the Harbeth's could not be bettered. Interestingly, I was also sceptical about the impact of jitter. I was so wrong in so many ways.
I am sure I will get upgradetites some day, but for now, I can rediscover my SuperNait+Harbeth combo.
I never tested it, but I can easily imagine that the improvement on the analog outputs is real. However, that the difference would be so obvious on the Supernait truly surprised me, especially because its DAC supposed to re-clock the bit stream.
Klaus wrote the mod, and deserves a lot of credit. It is simple to implement if you follow his instructions carefully. I will donate a modest fee for his cause, he surely deserves it.
Posted on: 15 January 2011 by davereay
I found the difference to be quite substantial after applying the mod, (for the better of course) and donated a small amount too for his time and effort. I would love to have the opportunity to compare it to a uniti at some point.
Posted on: 15 January 2011 by Flextreme
Just finished a blind A/B comparison (through some scripting), randomizing the enabling or disabling of SoundCheck's mod.
Out of 16, I got 10 times right. To be honest, my subjectively perceived difference is (much) bigger than objective one (doing blind A/B's).
I clearly prefer the modded Touch "emotionally", and still do. The blind comparisons learned me however that the difference is very subtle, and not that simple to identify (in my set-up, I cannot speak for others). Doing blind A/B's is actually not a very relaxing activity. The subjective difference in sound quality is far greater, which is OK for me. But if you expect/hope for whatever reason a better sound quality (expensive cables is a very good example in my mind), it is truly difficult to be objective. Seems like this is just my own little reality check. :-)
Posted on: 17 January 2011 by Asenna04
quote:
Originally posted by Flextreme:
Out of 16, I got 10 times right. To be honest, my subjectively perceived difference is (much) bigger than objective one (doing blind A/B's).
Hmmmm. Makes me wonder if this is truely and big improvement. As you state you are geting satisfation from it emotionally, but to me it indicates it is not a big jump in SQ.
Thanks for doing this and sharing with all.
ASenna04
Posted on: 19 January 2011 by StefanS
A/B comparison don't work for me. I'm really bad in comparing A with B on the spot, unless it is really obvious. My judgment is always, when doing longer listening sessions and how much I get drawn into the music. Do I start skipping from one song to the other (that's bad) or do I listen to a whole album without interruption (that's good)?
I have done the previous and the actual mods on the TOUCH and for me it really makes the important difference. Without the mods it sounds good, but after an half hour of listing to music I stop and do something else. With the mods done I have to stop after a few hours because I have to go to bed but actually would like still listen to music.
For me the mods work really well and make the touch a really interesting device. So I'm with you Flextreme, "emotionally" I really like it. :-)
Stefan
Posted on: 20 January 2011 by Asenna04
Reference:
With the mods done I have to stop after a few hours because I have to go to bed but actually would like still listen to music.
Today at 03:52.
Posting this 03:52! It must truely work then
Posted on: 24 January 2011 by m0omo0
Funny, I gave it a try this evening, as a friend of mine did the mods lately with success with the Touch on a SuperNAIT via coax.
I tried almost everything except disabling the screen, as I wanted to be able to use it. My SB Touch is wired with Ethernet, as is the Mac where the SqueezeBox Server runs.
I wouldn't say I did a 'critical' listening, but I spotted something rather critical to me: with the mods enabled, the sound is cleaner, but listening is less fun !
This of course, is in my system (see profile), in my room, with my ears, and my taste.
One thing I could try is to move the n-Sats a bit closer to the back wall with the mods enabled to see if it makes a difference. As the sound is somewhat more controlled, bass is a bit leaner (just too lean) and I might be able to compensate this.
Anyway thank you very much Jeroen for the tip. It's always fun to try.
ATB
Maurice
Posted on: 24 January 2011 by karlmcc
Posted on: 26 January 2011 by matpip
this looks interesting, but how can i run this mods, being a mac user?!
Posted on: 26 January 2011 by karlmcc
In the Toolbox 2.0 blog, soundcheck says to use Fugu, Transmit or similar. As I'm a windows user, I couldn't tell you which is best to use.
Posted on: 26 January 2011 by m0omo0
Reference:
this looks interesting, but how can i run this mods, being a mac user?!
( Woohoo! Quoting works in Firefox!
)
No problem, basically launch the 'Terminal' app and follow the Linux instructions. So skip 1.2.3 to 1.2.6 and do as described under 1.2.7.
HTH
Maurice
