Idiots' guide to setting up a NAS as music server

Jack, thanks very much for the explanation. I must get around to giving it a whirl.

@all, ABBA's Waterloo was merely an example. Sadly I don't have a single ABBA album. I say sadly because I do in fact admit to loving the songs when I hear them on the radio!

@hook

quote:

I tried WAV files via USB stick versus FLAC files delivered from RME 9632's S/PDIF (BNC) to Naim DAC/555PS, and could not hear any difference.

I'm afraid that doesn't really count as a valid test. The problem i perceive with this is that you're trying two completely different routes to the DAC so unfortunately the file processing (reading it off the device and transport to the DAC) may have introduced changes. The correct test would be to have the same track on the same source (e.g. USB stick twice, one FLAC and one WAV). Then, whether you perceive a difference or not, you know that the transport mechanism couldn't have fouled the result since it's the same. As it is, you can't really say.

As for discerning any differences, you should use whatever technique you normally use for demoing equipment. If you usually 'focus on standing bass lines' etc then it's valid but if you don't normally do this then you're altering your perception by focussing on something you don't normally focus on. Just treat it like an ordinary demo.

FWIW, on Saturday I was plying with CDX2/Rega DAC/Naim DAC/UnitiQute and every combination sounded different. Apropos this discussion, I compared WAV files ripped using iTunes via the UnitiQute into the Naim DAC versus the CDX2/DAC. The latter was much preferable (as one would hope) but what really surprised me was a certain 'spitty' nature to the UnitiQute/DAC solution. Since this isn't normally preset I prefer to assume it's to do with the WAV rips using iTunes being sub-par. It's one of those thins I hope to investigate in future, but if they can sound different when they're basically exactly the same thing, it wouldn't surprise me if FLAC were to sound different from WAV since so much extra processing is involved in unpacking the file in real time.

Streaming FLAC files from my hard drive to the Uniti the stream info display says they are WAV! Does the Uniti transcode when receiving streams? If I copy the same files to a usb stick they show on the Uniti as FLAC. FWIW I can detect no significant difference in sound quality although if I connect to the Uniti by optical cable direct from the pc it seems to lose a little something. Of course none of this is conclusive in SQ terms as my optical cable is nothing very special and streaming/usb differences could confound FLAC/WAV differences. Really puzzled about the streams showing as WAV - but I reluctantly ripped to FLAC for easier tagging so I'm not displeased!

I have a prehistoric (6 years) Sony mp3 player and have never owned an ipod but am thinking of getting one to use with the DAC, so could someone clarify which file types held on the ipod can be read by the DAC? If WAV only, what's the optimum solution for loading your ipod? Thanks

Pev

Could it be that your computer's UPnP server is transcoding the FLAC files to WAV before sending them to the Uniti?

@Jack - you could be right - I'm using Foobar 2000. It's a nice bonus if that is the case - thanks for the suggestion.

quote:

Streaming FLAC files from my hard drive to the Uniti the stream info display says they are WAV! Does the Uniti transcode when receiving streams? If I copy the same files to a usb stick they show on the Uniti as FLAC.

Pev,

I dont think you can "stream" FLACs. Your UPNP Server most likely converts lossless files to WAV (or even MP3 if not set-up correctly) prior to sending.

I think you are limited to sending along WAV or LPCM (whatever that means). You can then limit it to dither to 44.1 or 48 etc... Or you can ask it to always transcode to MP3 of various quality.

Check out your "Streaming Profiles" In Preferences>Tools>UPNP>Server

I am not an expert on this but I would set all transcoding to "Never". I set resolutions to 24/96 for both "Renderer Capabilities" and "Playback Capture Stream".

You can create different "Profiles" inside Foobar so you can make a few different setting selections and try them out.

To test I simply streamed from one Foobar to another and looked at what was coming into the 2nd instance of Foobar (the renderer). It was only sending along 320 MP3s until I found the right settings.

Lastly, I have it set to "always decode to WAV except MP3".

I hope this helps...

-Patrick

I just wanted to say thanks all. Following your advice I finally got my NAS discoverable as Drive Z, and busy ripping my collection.
Still can't get the Squeezebox software to work in the NAS, but as the Squeezebox is a very temporary measure, am not too worried.
If anyone is interested, I am ripping in WAV, because I often have to extract songs to put on all sorts of other devices for band purposes, and quite a lot of these don't read FLAC.

You certainly can stream FLACs if your renderer can handle them. Some can; some can't. Cheap western digital renderers can; Linn DS can; foobar can, so in these cases there's no need to transcode to either MP3 or WAV. It is not immediately obvious on the Foobar Streaming Profiles screen that there is more than one profile pre-set (cf. Linn DS, WMP, Playstation 3) and also these renderer specific profiles can be overriden by the default profile if the box on the Basic Settings page is checked. Quite probably your Uniti thinks it is getting WAV because it is.. if you'd rather send it FLAC, fiddle with the Streaming Profile.

Some people believe that FLAC sounds worse than WAV because it takes processing to decode it - but you could equally argue that WAV imposes a greater load on the network side of things. It shouldn't make any difference imo.

Interestingly, on the "Squeezebox forum", the trend is moving away from NAS, as they reckon you can achieve better streaming at lower cost by just using a spare purpose built (DIY) PC.

quote:

You certainly can stream FLACs if your renderer can handle them

Gotcha. Like I said, im no expert. I was just going off of the three options in Foobar for playback capture stream, which are:
-WAV
-LPCM
-MP3

I didnt seem [to me] that "FLAC" is included in one of those.

But it didnt seem to matter to me either. As long as the Naim DAC sync light comes on, and I am not dithering or transcoding, I dont care what the UPNP server or renderer is doing internally.

I guess I shouldn't chime in when I dont know what I am talking about.

-Patrick

quote:

the trend is moving away from NAS, as they reckon you can achieve better streaming at lower cost by just using a spare purpose built (DIY) PC.

agreed.... Although you will simply configure those drives in the dedicated PC as "network drives", I am guessing.

Simply a matter of definition i think. (i must stop doing this!!!!! )

-p

@Rockingdoc yes you can build a more effective server/pc than a dumb NAS device but not necessarily cheaper. In the end it is about flexibility and many (but not all) NAS drives are underpowered with poor quality server software.

@likesmusic
When I stream from Eyeconnect the UPnP software transcodes aiff to wav. Vortexbox serves up flac which appears at the Uniti as flac where I presume it is decoded directly by the machine.

Both sound good - flac to me sounds slightly brighter and clearer.

Tog

quote:

-WAV
-LPCM
-MP3

Which of these options will allow me to stream "FLACs" with Foobar?

How are you streaming patrick? Are you using foobar as a server and a renderer? And/or using playback stream capture? One one machine? Two machines? ..

Thanks to Patrick and Likesmusic for the really illuminating posts. I have checked my streaming profiles and the default is indeed to decode to WAV so that explains it. This does reassure me that I'm getting the best quality stream as well as easy tagging - and easy answer to an issue that seems to concern people on other threads. I couldn't find separate settings for playback capture and renderer settings but I'm not sure why I'd want to so that's no problem for me.
I'm using a dedicated DIY PC for audio and video - it's well over spec even for HD video. Looking at Task Manager and Performance Monitor when streaming and decoding the total CPU usage varies from 0% to 3% and Foobar averages at 0.22% so I can't see that the decoding process causes any problems. I've never really seen the advantage of a NAS over a dedicated PC if you have room in your rack (going from 7 olive boxes to a Uniti frees up a lot of real estate!).

Cheers Pev. I believe FLAC was designed to be trivial to decode, so it's no surprise your pc is barely bothered by it. The 'Streaming Profiles' you set in Foobar are how you want it to stream to a renderer - there isn't a renderer profile. "Playback Stream Capture" is a foobar feature that allows whatever you are playing through foobar on your pc (say BBC Radio 3 HD) to appear to a renderer as an alternative 'Library'. I guess you would only use it as a way of driving your hifi from your pc. OTOH, the Asset UPnP server has a 'Stream Capture' feature that grabs whatever the pc might be playing - Radio 3 HD say, or a youtube soundtrack - and offers it to a renderer. This could be more useful, though you do need the paid version to get it.

quote:

How are you streaming patrick? Are you using foobar as a server and a renderer? And/or using playback stream capture? One one machine? Two machines?

Likes,

Firstly, my computer is in my listening room so I dont really have the need for streaming [yet]. But i dont mind the idea of having it in another room.

I have tried a couple of different things. Right now using JRMC as both server and renderer on the same machine, controlling with PlugPlayer on iPhone4 and iPad.

I do this so I can use PlugPlayer as a remote. It is now quite stable and fast, allows playlist creation, and controls MC's internal volume. (I dont typically use JMRC's volume, i leave it at 100%, but it does come in handy at times). On the iPad PlugPlayer is 2nd only to the Remote App.

Before I got JRMC I played with Foobar as a UPNP server in the exact same way above, and for the same reasons.

Just for fun I streamed from Foobar on my laptop in my office to my listening computer. Not really knowing much about what I was doing, it took a few trips through the Settings as it was sending 320 mp3s at first.

When I first got the Naim DAC, and having a spare iPhone, I wanted to try streaming to it from the office (Office Foobar as server, iPhone as renderer via PlugPlayer), then control with PP on my iPhone4.

This worked, and for a moment I thought about moving the listening computer to the office, and hiding the iPhone behind the DAC permanently tethered to the rear USB. But my idea was too good to be true, no high res streaming.

I dont think I am ready to give up on the dedicated PC with my HDTV. Great for video, great for Theater View in JMRC, allows for any interface I want, etc....

But the Qute is tempting.

-Patrick

Get a Qute and be done with it patrick. No more suffering with a hotch-potch of hardware and software from all over the place, with mysterious settings, updates and voodoo. A Qute gives you Naim all the way from the rip. Sticking it in your listening room would mean you don't need streaming anyhow - just a wire. Dead simple. Clean. And there's loads of cheap ways you could stream from it to other places in your house. What's money? Eat frugally.
(How easy it is to spend other people's money! Sorry!)

Prev,

Just curious but when you have the UPnP server set to transcode to WAV does all the tagging information display correctly on the Uniti display?

Likes,

I would but I currently like having my GUI on the HDTV. With Foobar I then get Bio, Lyrics and artist picture along with the album art and playlist etc...

With JRMC I get the full screen, sexy as hell, Theater View with its Apple-like artist picture slideshow.

Also, I do use my PC (via M-Audio Transit out) for watching Netflix and other video, sending the audio signal to my 5.1

Right now a dedicated PC is best for me.

Currently using JRMC Theater View as my "shell". This gives me music, pics, video, Netflix, and the few websites I go to, all at my fingertips in the same Media Player.

I must admit that while I still occasionally use Foobar, JRMC in fullscreen Theater mode is my favorite. Very slick and well worth the $50.

Even if I got a Qute, and moved my PC to my office, I would still want route a DVI cable from the PC to my HDTV for video and GUIs. Also I would need a long USB for M-Audio audio to my 5.1

Also, I would probably continue to use JMRC as my UPNP server.

So I cant really see the point in a "streamer" right now for me.

Lastly, I am in no way "suffering". I have everything I want and need. It is simple and sounds fantastic.

JMRC>Juli@>Optichord>DAC, isn't much more of a hodgepodge than:
JMRC>Router>Qute>BNC DC1>DAC

If I wanted "dead simple. clean." I would get an HDX.

-Patrick

quote:

Just curious but when you have the UPnP server set to transcode to WAV

What would be the other option? Are you saying if you set it to LPCM it would stream FLACs?

-p

I was was just curious and thinking along the lines of the fact that if you stream FLACs then all the tagging information is included in the file and therefore the renderer has all the information required to accurate describe the file (assuming it was tagged correctly).

If you stream WAV then there isn't any detailed tag information and therefore how is the renderer able to accurately describe the file?

I guess this may be one of the advantages of a full Naim system in that these type of issues have all been resolved.

Does that make sense?

patrick - my mistake - i thought you meant a Serve not a Qute.. I got the products confused - 'scuse me. Senility looms.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack:
...
If you stream WAV then there isn't any detailed tag information and therefore how is the renderer able to accurately describe the file?
....

Easy, just tag your WAV like any flac and make sure you have a good renderer that knows how to handle tagged WAVs.

I didn't think you could tag WAV files in the same way as you can tag FLAC files i.e. include cover art, comments, other info etc?

What can I use to do this?