Early J***

Right off the bat, I'm not getting along so well with this book.

After defining "swing" as a fundamental property of all jazz, the author goes on to state that rhythm plays an inferior role to pitch in classical music. Swing is defined as "a regular, steady pulse".

I can't accept this, as it has not been my experience. In Beethoven in particular, rhythm is equal in importance to pitch.

Can anyone recommend a more contemporary history of jazz that is as rich as this one in musical analysis?

Sorry Mike, it's beyond me I do know swing is born not made. Ya got it or ya don't! Most people don't understand that it's not just the notes. My dad could swing dance to the big bands, I tried dance lessons in my 30s and I just didn't have it. I love the old singers and hoofers, they had it, today, not so much.

quote:

Originally posted by mudwolf:

I do know swing is born not made. Ya got it or ya don't!

Not true at all ... swing can definitely be learned.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

After defining "swing" as a fundamental property of all jazz, the author goes on to state that rhythm plays an inferior role to pitch in classical music. Swing is defined as "a regular, steady pulse".

Hi, Mike. As I've written here before, there are two different senses of the word "swing" in relation to music.

In one sense, all music should swing, no matter the genre ... it should have a flowing, breathing sense of propulsion, like a freely running river, a sense of "dancing" in time, its rhythms should be supple and carry momentum.

In jazz in particular, beyond the requirements described above which all music should have, a "swing" feel is a specific rhythmic feel in which the distance and weight between two eighth notes are not equal ... in some older notation one might find this feel notated as a dotted eighth-note followed by a sixteenth note, which is an inaccurate and misleading way to notate the proper feel, and will result in a very stilted and corny swing feel. Another way to notate the swing feel is a group of three eighth-note triplets, the first two of which are tied together as a quarter note within the triplet set, but this too can be inaccurate and misleading.

In reality, there really is no way to exactly notate a swing feel, in large part because it's so liquid and ever-changing, depending on tempo, stylistic context, era, individual idiosyncrasies of the musicians, and a host of other nuanced factors.

As for the cited author's declaration that "swing" is "a fundamental property of all jazz," this is, of course, true in the first sense of "swing" I described which pertains to all music, but is absolutely not true in the second, specific sense for "all jazz" ... there are countless examples in jazz of what is called a "straight eighth-note" feel, in which the distance between two eighth notes is equal, as it is in much Western European-based classical music. Further, there's also a feel described as "broken swing," which is a constantly changing and fluid hybrid of swing eighths and straight eighths.

Finally, the cited author's definition of "swing" as "a regular, steady pulse" ... well, that's just egregiously inadequate and misses several crucial points.

All best,
Fred

Thanks Fred. Your explanation made a great deal of sense. Unequal 8th notes can be sliced and diced many different ways, most of them not possible to notate.

Do you have any "recommended readings" to study jazz ? I'm not having any luck finding any that talk about the construction of jazz.

You are quite lucid, and should write a book.

With classical music, I have been able to find texts that illuminate the careers and music of any composer I developed an interest in, with minimal effort, and scores are readily available.

Over the past several years, this type of study has broadened and deepened my appreciation for the music of Bach, Beethoven and Stravinsky.

Not so for jazz.

In the past, Fred Simon has recommended texts for jazz, but I am unable to find these old posts.

In particular, I would like to find a jazz text that incorporates musical analysis, and clearly represents current thinking in the jazz community.

Is there any such book?

Mike, thanks for the kind words; glad you find my explanations helpful.

I actually don't know of a specific text on jazz that deals with the musical nuts and bolts ... my recommendations in the past have been either biographies or more literary treatises, such as the wonderful book by Geoff Dyer, But Beautiful, which blurs all distinctions between fiction and non-fiction, between biography and portraiture.

All best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by Doctor Jazz:

I'm with you Fred. Swing can be learned although having worked as a jazz educator (Whatever that might be!)I found that the characteristics of swing can be difficult to articulate. I often used to advise young musicians to feel it rather than learn it.

Yes, well, that's mostly how it's learned ... by hearing it and feeling it. But there are specific directions that can be given to help refine its implementation, for instance, to pay attention to the changing distances and weights between adjacent eighth-notes, often on a nearly microscopic level.

Fred