Naim Network Streaming Advice + CD Ripping
Posted by: ast2312 on 16 December 2010
Hi, I am hoping some can help me with my new Naim system. I have ordered a NDX (still awaiting delivery) however I am currently streaming a Unitiqute and am ripping CD's in flac format to a WD Myworldbook NAS to ensure I have good navigation from the ID Tags but feel I should be ripping in WAV. I am really needing help in the following:-
1. Best quality format for CD ripping and how to manage ID tags(I want to use WAV but lose the Metadata and ID tags when loaded on a NAS. Currentlt ripped using Flac which has keep all ID tags in place).
2. Suitable NAS (currently have a WD Myworldbook).
3. Best CD ripping software.
Any help will be much appreciated.
1. Best quality format for CD ripping and how to manage ID tags(I want to use WAV but lose the Metadata and ID tags when loaded on a NAS. Currentlt ripped using Flac which has keep all ID tags in place).
2. Suitable NAS (currently have a WD Myworldbook).
3. Best CD ripping software.
Any help will be much appreciated.
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by Tog
How far does this extend to tracks identified in an external share?
Tog
Tog
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by likesmusic
John - I'm not sure what you mean by a 'fully relational database'.
Could you use it to, for example, make a list of all the cds you have on which two or more musicians play who also played with Miles?
How would you do that?
Have to say I've a reasonably large collection of jazz and classical (50/50), though no pop, and am happy enough with the tagging that dBpoweramp and judicious editing with mediamonkey has achieved.
Could you use it to, for example, make a list of all the cds you have on which two or more musicians play who also played with Miles?
How would you do that?
Have to say I've a reasonably large collection of jazz and classical (50/50), though no pop, and am happy enough with the tagging that dBpoweramp and judicious editing with mediamonkey has achieved.
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by John Bailey
quote:Originally posted by likesmusic:
John - I'm not sure what you mean by a 'fully relational database'.
Could you use it to, for example, make a list of all the cds you have on which two or more musicians play who also played with Miles?
How would you do that?
Have to say I've a reasonably large collection of jazz and classical (50/50), though no pop, and am happy enough with the tagging that dBpoweramp and judicious editing with mediamonkey has achieved.
I'm not a computer whiz and maybe 'relational' is not quite the right term. Also, I have no experience of using an HDX/Serve so I can only go by what I have read on the forum, the instruction manuals and white papers.
However, as I understand it, you can search by 'people' so searching for 'Miles Davis' would return all the tracks that Miles featured on or had some input into either as a composer, soloist etc..
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by John Bailey
quote:Originally posted by Tog:
How far does this extend to tracks identified in an external share?
Tog
It would appear to do this though obviously its performance would be dependent on the accuracy and level of metadata applied to files by third party means.
Anyone got any practical experience of this?
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by Peter_RN
quote:Originally posted by Tog:
Am going down the serve route but not dreadfully happy with the prospect of having to use a Windows netbook to access the Desktop Client.
My Vortexbox can be completely configured from my ipad.
Tog
Hi Tog…….I do not know or use Mac’s but I think I read a post (probably from AlanB, but apologies to him if it wasn’t) that you can use Bootcamp on Mac to access the DTC. Might be worthwhile considering.
Regards
Peter
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by John Bailey
I run dbpoweramp on a mac via VMFusion and that works fine. The Naim 'NAS tester' worked fine so no particular worries there.
I think that the DTC will only require to be used occasionally, most of the time control can be via a web browser.
Unfortunately a flash enabled web browser so that counts the iPhone and iPad out. Fortunately there is or will be an app available for this purpose.
I think that the DTC will only require to be used occasionally, most of the time control can be via a web browser.
Unfortunately a flash enabled web browser so that counts the iPhone and iPad out. Fortunately there is or will be an app available for this purpose.
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by Tog
Think I am being picky but then I am picky ...
My wife has a small Pink Sony Netbook (disenfranchised by the arrival of our iPad - which could be used) it just seems clunky.
Upgraded to VB 1.7 in bed by accessing GUI using an iPad.
Rebooted VB using iPad
Ripped "Sad Songs for Dirty Lovers" by The National on VB whilst monitoring rip on iPad.
Checked cover art using Bliss on VB using IPad
Streamed to IMac via iPad to check
Streamed to Uniti via n-stream on the iPad - to check quality and cover art.
read next chapter of "the Windup Girl" on iPad in bed.
God that is all so sad.
Tog
My wife has a small Pink Sony Netbook (disenfranchised by the arrival of our iPad - which could be used) it just seems clunky.
Upgraded to VB 1.7 in bed by accessing GUI using an iPad.
Rebooted VB using iPad
Ripped "Sad Songs for Dirty Lovers" by The National on VB whilst monitoring rip on iPad.
Checked cover art using Bliss on VB using IPad
Streamed to IMac via iPad to check
Streamed to Uniti via n-stream on the iPad - to check quality and cover art.
read next chapter of "the Windup Girl" on iPad in bed.
God that is all so sad.
Tog
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by realhifi
quote:Think I am being picky but then I am picky ...
My wife has a small Pink Sony Netbook (disenfranchised by the arrival of our iPad - which could be used) it just seems clunky.
Upgraded to VB 1.7 in bed by accessing GUI using an iPad.
Rebooted VB using iPad
Ripped "Sad Songs for Dirty Lovers" by The National on VB whilst monitoring rip on iPad.
Checked cover art using Bliss on VB using IPad
Streamed to IMac via iPad to check
Streamed to Uniti via n-stream on the iPad - to check quality and cover art.
read next chapter of "the Windup Girl" on iPad in bed.
God that is all so sad.
Miracle machine. People that I know think I've consumed the koolaid when I start to go on and on about the iPad but the reality is that it is one hell of a machine and the folks at Apple knew it when they showed it to a sceptical audience last year.
I'm assuming you are using one of the VNC programs out there to access your mini such as iTeleport or the like.
Tog
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by realhifi
Oops. That came out a bit scrambled. I think you get my drift.
Dave
Dave
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by realhifi
quote:realhifi - I'm not sure what you mean by a 'second to none relational database' inside Sooloos. Can you write queries on it in SQL? Or any query language? Can you point me to an E-R diagram? In what way is a Sooloos rip demonstrably better than a dBPoweramp rip?
When I say relational database it is exactly as it sounds. You can search for not only artists but who produced what, who played which instruments on a given album and what others in your collection have they also played on, what, when, where something was recorded, etc, etc. If you have not had the pleasure of sitting with a Sooloos interface then I suggest you don't disparage it. Meridian did not pick this company up because they had a pretty face, it's a damn serious company and when they finally leverage the digital know how of their products into the interface (and programming prowess) of Sooloos it will be a force to be reckoned with. I'm not saying it's not all well and good to use all the many many tools that are computer related to make your own rips, database, etc, etc. the point I'm trying to make is that MANY and I do mean MANY folks do not want to be a computer programmer, user, whatever, in order to listen to their music and yet are very interested in how a music server can do just that "serve" them their music and make it sound fantastic without them even knowing that a computer is in the background working.
I mean, how many of us have taken apart a cd player in order to change this or that to make sure it "reads" the cd better or puts the information out in the form of text, or images, or tells us what we are listening to? Naims approach IS somewhat propriatary but from my perspective it makes a lot of sense.
Get the variables out of a listeners hands, make the file as good as you can, make it easy to bring said file to your hifi.
Press play, done. How could you not want that? I sure do.
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by realhifi
quote:It looks worse than it is.
Most is all default setting, and once you really understand what it is all about, there is no problem whatsoever at all to set it up.
After that, just put in your CD and say Rip, there is nothing else to be done.
But as some may understand, when there is something to troubleshoot there is usually a lot more effort required.
-
aleg
quote:quote:
Originally posted by realhifi:
Those screen shots give me a headache. I like to tweak as much as the next guy but whew...this computer related music business is beginning to feel more like a chore than fun. It has GOT to get easier to get very high quality sound from digital hard disk.
When you see this you begin to understand both Sooloos and Naim's expense and start thinking that it might not be all that pricey after all.
It looks worse than it is.
Most is all default setting, and once you really understand what it is all about, there is no problem whatsoever at all to set it up.
After that, just put in your CD and say Rip, there is nothing else to be done.
But as some may understand, when there is something to troubleshoot there is usually a lot more effort required.
-
aleg
It is not worse than it looks if you simply do NOT want to see a computer anywhere near your hifi or even in your home.
I certainly get the programming aspect of this and can find my way through most anything on a computer these days.
BUT, my clients sometimes don't or simply won't. For this I can't blame them. They shouldn't have to. That's the point.
That in a nutshell is where companies like Naim and Sooloos, etc come in. It needs to be like this...."take this cd, put it in this slot,
take it out when it is done, turn on your iPad (or whatever) choose it, and press play. " and then for that track to sound superb!
No trouble shooting, no digging through menus on a computer or setting this and setting that, no downloading new software that makes it upsample to this or that....none of that. Just play.
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by likesmusic
I'm still not sure what you mean by a 'second to none relational database'. Some of the searches you describe, such as when something was recorded, are utterly trivial. I'm afraid it will take more than that to impress me. But then I have developed proper relational databases, in Oracle, for many years, so perhaps I have higher standards. I'm not disparaging the Sooloos system, I'm just asking you to justify your claims for it. I'm sure it's nice to look at, but unless you can prove otherwise, I don't believe it can rip a cd any better than a number of much cheaper alternatives, or play one, or search for one.
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by Tog
@likesmusic
Certainly is Dave - quite addictive
No need for VNC to manage Vortexbox - it has a web GUI - just type in Vortexbox.local as an address. No flash, no Windows and no hassle.
Control DAAP stream to IMac via Remote 2.
Vortexbox has built in DAAP server.
I agree with your point about complex metadata software - there is a limit to the times I want to search via Sound Engineer or songwriter.
As for ripping - well that argument will run and run but for my money Max, itunes or ripit are absolutely fine.
Tog
Certainly is Dave - quite addictive
No need for VNC to manage Vortexbox - it has a web GUI - just type in Vortexbox.local as an address. No flash, no Windows and no hassle.
Control DAAP stream to IMac via Remote 2.
Vortexbox has built in DAAP server.
I agree with your point about complex metadata software - there is a limit to the times I want to search via Sound Engineer or songwriter.
As for ripping - well that argument will run and run but for my money Max, itunes or ripit are absolutely fine.
Tog
Posted on: 03 January 2011 by realhifi
quote:Posted Sun 02 January 2011 19:00 Hide Post
I'm still not sure what you mean by a 'second to none relational database'. Some of the searches you describe, such as when something was recorded, are utterly trivial. I'm afraid it will take more than that to impress me. But then I have developed proper relational databases, in Oracle, for many years, so perhaps I have higher standards. I'm not disparaging the Sooloos system, I'm just asking you to justify your claims for it. I'm sure it's nice to look at, but unless you can prove otherwise, I don't believe it can rip a cd any better than a number of much cheaper alternatives, or play one, or search for one.
I'm assuming that what you are talking about is available as as simple program or product that needs no computer experience to both setup or to run. My comments are all based on the end user experience of the Sooloos to those that have NO computer experience and frankly don't want any. If you are refering to something that is available as a commercial product that has the capabilities you describe then I am all ears. As I stated earlier though, it needs to be a turnkey product and be dead simple to use. When you sit someone down in front of a Sooloos that is exactly what it is. People that can not figure out how to use a remote control or program their cable box have NO trouble using a Sooloos immediately and with no instruction or prompting.
By the way, I'm not trying to sell one to you, just would love to have something as you describe that does what the Sooloss can also do and be less expensive.
As I said, I'm all ears.
Posted on: 03 January 2011 by realhifi
Not to beat a dead horse but this is not where I stand on using computers and software but what clients are searching for. I personally can and have used a number of the software alternatives that have been mentioned in this thread and yes, you can certainly get similar performance for less but it has hidden costs in the time involved to research, setup, tweak, etc all the neccessary parts to make such a system perform well. Not chasing windmills here...just trying to make a simple point about ease of operation in the newish HD based music world.
Posted on: 03 January 2011 by Tog
I suppose there is a difference between a product that is designed to be installed as an everyday piece of hardware - to become as invisible as the TV remote so that anyone can use it and the product that is built around its users needs - bespoke versus pret-a-porter.
A bespoke server grows to adapt to a small number of users - pret-a-porter server needs to be as simple as possible for a potentially large number of users.
One product adapts to the user - the other the user adapts to suit the specifications of the product (To a greater or lesser extent.)
nServe as Pret-a-Porter - discuss.
Tog
A bespoke server grows to adapt to a small number of users - pret-a-porter server needs to be as simple as possible for a potentially large number of users.
One product adapts to the user - the other the user adapts to suit the specifications of the product (To a greater or lesser extent.)
nServe as Pret-a-Porter - discuss.
Tog
Posted on: 03 January 2011 by realhifi
quote:Posted Mon 03 January 2011 13:43 Hide Post
I suppose there is a difference between a product that is designed to be installed as an everyday piece of hardware - to become as invisible as the TV remote so that anyone can use it and the product that is built around its users needs - bespoke versus pret-a-porter.
A bespoke server grows to adapt to a small number of users - pret-a-porter server needs to be as simple as possible for a potentially large number of users.
One product adapts to the user - the other the user adapts to suit the specifications of the product (To a greater or lesser extent.)
nServe as Pret-a-Porter - discuss.
Tog
Close. Look at something like Pandora. It is gathering information about you as user as you choose music, as you say" I like this" or "I don't like this" or it sees your tastes centered around jazz, etc. A database being built and then offering things that you just may like as you are using said product. In addition, it presents them to you at the simple fingertip touch on a screen. Maybe in addition it starts to know that it's after 7:00 pm so your tastes run to a softer pace of music whether it be classical, jazz or folk. All you need to do with it is keep interacting with it and suddenly it is making it easier and easier for you to access your music whether you have loaded 2,500 cds onto it's hard drive or it is playing Pandora or Rhapsody or one of many internet radio stations available. All sounding excellent, all seamlessly
moving from one source to the other. Belive it or not this is happening and people are liking it. In fact I'd say they are entranced and flattered. It doesn't matter if you or I thinks that this is the best way to access "our" music, this is the future and it's coming like a steam locomotive into your hifi.
As far as the nServe being a part of that equation or if you can tell it pricisely what you want it to do (bespoke) or the other approach is not clear with Naim's approach. I think I see where you are going with this and I believe that Naim is sharp enough to allow everyone (almost)
to the party. I personally think they get it and have one of the sharper approaches to this new media age in the high end business today.
Posted on: 03 January 2011 by pcstockton
*
Posted on: 04 January 2011 by Tog
I think the conversation about the Soolos has helped me to appreciate where these server products are positioned in terms of their respective markets and why they are so expensive.
The UnitiServe is an invisible product designed for customers with the majority of their music on CD who require a system that is as easy to use as a CD player. To achieve this the software is very specific in it's use and users have to adapt to a particular approach.
A Nas or bespoke music server is highly visible and far less immediately straightforward to the casual user. However, in most cases the software / hardware used will reflect the way the user approaches their music. The majority of who will probably have less music in the form of physical CDs already.
The Serve is great but suits a particular customer.
Tog
The UnitiServe is an invisible product designed for customers with the majority of their music on CD who require a system that is as easy to use as a CD player. To achieve this the software is very specific in it's use and users have to adapt to a particular approach.
A Nas or bespoke music server is highly visible and far less immediately straightforward to the casual user. However, in most cases the software / hardware used will reflect the way the user approaches their music. The majority of who will probably have less music in the form of physical CDs already.
The Serve is great but suits a particular customer.
Tog
Posted on: 04 January 2011 by Aleg
rubbish
Posted on: 04 January 2011 by Tog
quote:Originally posted by Aleg:
rubbish
that your considered argument then ...
Tog
Posted on: 04 January 2011 by Develyn
why rubbish?
Posted on: 04 January 2011 by Aleg
quote:Originally posted by Develyn:
why rubbish?
quote:The UnitiServe is an invisible product designed for customers with the majority of their music on CD who require a system that is as easy to use as a CD player.
Who says so? Statement is completely made up and rootless.
The UnitiServe is a ripper and one of the aspects of its closed nature regarding metadata and its extensive use of AMG had to do with 'enforcing' that only legitimate copies could benefit from it and not illegaly downloaded copies. Other ripper programs that use AMG have similar limitations.
quote:A Nas or bespoke music server is highly visible and far less immediately straightforward to the casual user.
A NAS is not highly visible at all as I believe most people will have it outside of the music room and have it connected wired or wirelessly to the network.
quote:The majority of who will probably have less music in the form of physical CDs already.
On what grounds do you say it is the majority?
And physical CD's still are the overwhelming format of available music. Only a tiny fraction is (legally) available in non-physical format.
So IMHO the statements made are BS and IMHO made by someone who's only complaining.
Posted on: 04 January 2011 by Tog
Sigh ...@Aleg
You could always read what has actually been posted rather than fret over what you think has been written.
Yes the Unitiserve is a ripper (well spotted) ..hence the comments about it being intended for those with significant CD collections. Yes it is opinion (aka made up)since I am not in the process of conducting a post doctoral thesis on the subject.
I'm sure there is a need for closed metadata software that stops the hordes from downloading illegal music because most of it is only available on CD - that must have been Naim's plan all along - nope ... I just made that up and it doesn't make anymore sense than when you suggested it.
Oh .. When I was talking about visible and invisible I didn't mean it in any literal sense. I know that you can see the UnitiServe and that NAS drives are often hidden out of sight.
Try not to quote out of context unless you are a politician. The majority I referred to belong to IMHO those people with large collection of ripped music already who will buy open servers rather than closed servers. I made that up too but that is because it is an opinion.
Complaining - where? - given my clear statement that the UnitiServe is a great product.
But I do apologise for writing "the majority of who" when I should have said "the majority of whom" .. And for that I am very sorry.
Tog
You could always read what has actually been posted rather than fret over what you think has been written.
Yes the Unitiserve is a ripper (well spotted) ..hence the comments about it being intended for those with significant CD collections. Yes it is opinion (aka made up)since I am not in the process of conducting a post doctoral thesis on the subject.
I'm sure there is a need for closed metadata software that stops the hordes from downloading illegal music because most of it is only available on CD - that must have been Naim's plan all along - nope ... I just made that up and it doesn't make anymore sense than when you suggested it.
Oh .. When I was talking about visible and invisible I didn't mean it in any literal sense. I know that you can see the UnitiServe and that NAS drives are often hidden out of sight.
Try not to quote out of context unless you are a politician. The majority I referred to belong to IMHO those people with large collection of ripped music already who will buy open servers rather than closed servers. I made that up too but that is because it is an opinion.
Complaining - where? - given my clear statement that the UnitiServe is a great product.
But I do apologise for writing "the majority of who" when I should have said "the majority of whom" .. And for that I am very sorry.
Tog