Porcupine Tree, are they really that good?

No

It don't get better than this - nice job Phil

PT are absolute rubbish!

I only have 16 of their albums.

2 - Mars Volta (they are the lads though)
7 - Marillion
18 - Yes
17 - Genesis
26 - Rush

You can see where my leanings are. I do have a little difficulty with "new" prog(ish) bands entering my space.
PT do do a great job though, no doubt Steven Wilson is a very talented guy.
It would be an even worse world without him that's for sure.

At the end of the day if you don't get it , you don't get it.

Provocative topic Dean.

Be prepared to have 'Prog' defined for you by numerous experts, before comparisons are made.

I don't think PT share the same musical philosophies as Yes, Genesis(PG only), Marillion or The Mars Volta.

They do share similar ideas in song structure as the Floyd, King Crimson and latterly influenced by 'Metal' bands.

I have never heard a note from Rush, so I can't comment.

For now, I would say that Porcupine Tree ARE 'Progressive', but NOT a 'Prog' band.

More to follow after Christmas

Yours in Prog

Denis

Oh Dean,

I've just seen on the WAYLT thread that you love Topographic Oceans I always break out in a cold sweat on just seeing the title, let alone hearing it

I saw Yes perform this twice in three nights at 'The Rainbow' and my friends and I needed theropy afterwards. We were seasoned concert goers at the time, but did conclude that Jon Anderson was taking the P*ss. Rick Wakeman got so bored one night during the twiddly bits, his keyboard roadie misundestood their food conversation and brought him a 'Curry' during the gig. Rick placed the cartons on top of his keyboard stack and dug in!

I do like early Yes stuff by the way - Pre Top Ohhhh.

BTW - PT did support Yes in America, around 2000 I think and equipment sabotage was alleged at the time.

It's not the first time a support act upstaged the main event of course. King Crimson opening for the Stones @ Hyde Park in 1969 qualifies I think

Porcupine Tree have been around for nearly 20 years now, and so their music has evolved a great deal.

Broadly speaking it comes into three periods, the early 90's when they were quite influenced by Pink Floyd, a little psychedelic. In the late 90's they became more song based, some influence from Radiohead, but still a lot of Floyd. In the last ten years they have moved a lot towards heavy metal.

Personally I like the late 90's period, which is when I got into them, 'Signify' being my favourite album. That I think matches up well with a lot of earlier prog rock, but it would not be in my top ten prog albums, or maybe around ten.

That said, live they are as good as any prog bad right now, as they are still playing music that is fresh to them, and has a spontaneity that is lacking from many older prog bands.

I will also say that I really am not impressed with some of their recent output, not that I don't like metal or prog metal, but for me I find it rather souless. I know others love albums like 'Fear of a Blank Planet' though, so try a little of each period and make a judgment from that. There are lots of threads here to judge what albums are worth trying.

One thing I feel about Porcupine Tree is that they are good musicians who are playing in the style of prog rock, as opposed that the 80's prog bands, who I felt about seemed to be fans of prog rock who had learned to play the music.

I think I might post a prog lists thread, that might get some interesting reactions, and might even throw some light on this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by JamieL_v2:

I think I might post a prog lists thread, that might get some interesting reactions, and might even throw some light on this thread.

Yep. PT did not make my top 20 progressive albums but I love their music loads. Thing is, as per the original question they don't have the history, in my listening life, to replace the good and the great that I grew up with and love more.

Dean,

PT are good, very good - I prefer them to most in your list I know nothing of Mars Volta.

However you omitted the two three finest prog bands - Crimson and VdGG oh and Caravan!

quote:

Originally posted by seagull:
Dean,

PT are good, very good - I prefer them to most in your list I know nothing of Mars Volta.

However you omitted the two three finest prog bands - Crimson and VdGG oh and Caravan!

But why do you like them? thats what I'm asking. Caravan are on my "lesser known prog band" list to try.

Here ya go some fantastic The Mars Volta.

The Mars Volta



Dean...

quote:

But why do you like them? thats what I'm asking.

That is an almost impossible task though isn't it?

Why do like a picture ? It looks good.
Why do like chocolate? It tastes good.
Why do like PT ? It sounds good.

Simples!

Why do they sound good to me? Not so simples.

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:

quote:

But why do you like them? thats what I'm asking.

That is an almost impossible task though isn't it?

Why do like a picture ? It looks good.
Why do like chocolate? It tastes good.
Why do like PT ? It sounds good.

Simples!

I like Yes because of the tone of Jon Anderson's singing and his intelligent other worldly lyrics. I like Rick Wakeman's virtuoso keyboard playing and his use of many analogue sythns. I like Yes because at their heart they have a free aprroach to playing and creating music the way they want to. I like Yes for the fact that they are exceptional musicians and are not afraid to show us that. I could go on but you get the jist.


Simples.



Dean...

You still haven't answered your question in some respects though.
I see where you are coming from Dean , but sometimes (or even a lot of times) what you like about a band is , that you just like them, unquantifiable things make up the mix.

I'm guessing for any band you need to like the singer, the lyrics, or the virtuosity of the players etc to like the band.

There are plenty of bands with those assets but what makes you like band A and hate/dislike band B ?

That's where I'm saying how can you know?

Why do some like The Smiths and hate Rush or vice versa in my case? I'm sure they both have strange singers and talented musicians, but Rush hit the sweet spot for me the Smiths hit sour one. Maybe there are even people who like both?

BigH,

I only outlined a few of the obvious things that I like about Yes and that would help start you on a way into understanding what you really like a dislike about certain artists. I think a few of us on here like to understand the nature of what we do and do not like as it helps us in the future pin point likable things in newer artists and genres before we dismiss them wholeheartedly. Otherwise you will be treading the same water time and time again and not move forward in your understanding and appreciation of all music and it many variations.



Dean..

Ok what do I like about...

VdGG. They are unique. No other band sounds like them. Instrumentally, they should be playing foxtrots for pensioners to dance to in a faded hotel in Bournemouth (Organ/Saxophone/Drums/Voice) but they are as far from that as it is possible to go. Lyrically the best. Hammill's marmite voice, Jaxonsax the ONLY saxophonist I really like, Banton on organ - understated, not flashy but brilliant, Evans simply one of the best rock drummers there has ever been.

Crim. Fripp's guitar work and the Bruford/Wetton/Fripp line up the interplay between them.

Caravan. Easy on the ear but so complex too. Witty songs clever interplay, riffs to die for.

Porcupine Tree. Steven Wilson has his own take on music. It's not all prog. Early PT (i.e SW on his own) was like a bit early Floyd (but better IMHO - ducks). PT are now more like Crim (though sadly less good), the association with Fripp is probably no coincidence.

Love the live albums:





Both are strangely very addictive. I had both albums in constant rotation in the car for a couple of weeks and listened to nothing else. But the best PT, in my opinion is this:

Maybe I picked the wrong albums to 'get into' PT. I have 'Deadwing' which is OK but I can't get on with 'The Incident' - so much so that one CD is still unplayed.
Regards,
Steve.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve O:
Maybe I picked the wrong albums to 'get into' PT. I have 'Deadwing' which is OK but I can't get on with 'The Incident' - so much so that one CD is still unplayed.
Regards,
Steve.

Hi Steve,

The are lots of Video clips & Full albums to try at the PT Official Site media player.

I recommend listening to the full albums as below...

1. Recordings
2. Stupid Dream
3. Coma Devine
4. Signify
5. The Sky Moves Sideways
6. Up The Downstair
7. On The Sunday of Life
8. Fear Of A Blank Planet

Videos...

1. Half Light
2. Strip The Soul/.3
3. Sleep Together

These examples show how the band has evolved and do not paint themselves into a corner.

If they still don't appeal - Oh Well!

Musical differences are good and should be encouraged.

I forgot to mention that Steven Wilson is actively involved in many other musical projects, as detailed @ Voyage PT

Denis

quote:

Originally posted by seagull:
Ok what do I like about...

VdGG. They are unique. No other band sounds like them. Instrumentally, they should be playing foxtrots for pensioners to dance to in a faded hotel in Bournemouth (Organ/Saxophone/Drums/Voice) but they are as far from that as it is possible to go. Lyrically the best. Hammill's marmite voice, Jaxonsax the ONLY saxophonist I really like, Banton on organ - understated, not flashy but brilliant, Evans simply one of the best rock drummers there has ever been.

Crim. Fripp's guitar work and the Bruford/Wetton/Fripp line up the interplay between them.

Caravan. Easy on the ear but so complex too. Witty songs clever interplay, riffs to die for.

Porcupine Tree. Steven Wilson has his own take on music. It's not all prog. Early PT (i.e SW on his own) was like a bit early Floyd (but better IMHO - ducks). PT are now more like Crim (though sadly less good), the association with Fripp is probably no coincidence.

Thanks Seagull thats more like it.


You certainly wetted my appetite for VDGG, though I'm still unsure about PT though I will investigate them as MP3's through youtube are not really a good arbiter on a groups quality.



Dean..

quote:

Originally posted by Whizzkid:
Listening to a selection of tracks on youtube I thought afterwards "are they really that good" as many on here and on the Progarchives suggest. I love my Prog as many know but I'm left unconvinced with this band...

I - and even more critically Mrs JWM - are with you 100% on this one.

Some of Steve Wilson's other projects are arguably just as good as the PT recordings. I love Blackfield too and it is great when you are in the mood for something less 'heavy'.

Blackfield's debut:


Blackfield's superb follow-up:


The amazing live concert in New York:


I am also just starting to get into 'No Man', Steve Wilson's other project. There is a stack of albums that just arrived from Amazon and I have only started with this: