Name a classic al***.

Because if you did not then you almost certainly would never have heard it! At least the record give the chance to heard what the Viennese thought was much better than what Beethoven was writing at the time!

The same audience also prefered Rossini to Beethoven! Fortunately for posterity Beethoven's several patrons supported him and allowed for what time has proven to be a multitude of classics that have indeed stood the test of time and live every day [somewhere in the world] in great performances by the greatest of musicians from each succeeding generation.

The music is reborn and refreshed and lives still because of this.

A few dusty old records give no hint of a true living performance tradition, but rather the dry state of a musicologists encouragement to perform something he has found - long forgotten - in the library. Only to be dropped by the performers as soon as they leave the recording studio in so many cases.

ATB from George

PS: I also have a Cherubini Mass [in D I think], on CD. It is something I did not bother to put into iTunes and the disc will go to Oxfam.

Concerning Church music in it proper setting, I quite agree that there is nothing like it.

I am not up for a big journey very often. I do not see myself ever going to London again in terms of stress to pleasure ratio ...

I get my periodic fix on this in Hereford, which has a wonderful living tradition!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
A few dusty old records give no hint of a true living performance tradition.

George, I'm a bit confused, you seem to be suggesting that I haven't experienced a Cherubini Mass as a live, living experience. I'm sure you wouldn't really claim to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every performance of everything!

No need for confussion.

It is entirely possibile that you have performed in, or attended a Cherubini Mass! More than once, or even more than one Mass ...

I have performed in a good deal of music that would be unknown to almost anyone here.

I even rather liked some of it, such as the Neruda Comcerto in E Flat, which can be played on the high Horn or the Trumpet in E Flat.

I bet not many here are acquainted with it, and that is because though enjoyable it is not as fine as similar concerti by Neruda's contemparies, Haydn and Mozart! Classical music but not exactly a classic of its kind!

It does appear on trumpet concerto discs on occasion coupled with the Haydn and usually the one by Hummel.

So perhaps you like Cherubini as much as I like Neruda, in spite of its relative rarity!

ATB from George

Dr. John "City Lights"
Ray Charles "Hard Times"
Miles Davis "Porgy and Bess"
Stevie Wonder "Songs in the Key of Life"
Stan Kenton "City of Glass"

To name a few, in the spirit of the original poster's intentions, which should be respected :-)

Now, isn't it time for this one to enter the scene and reclaim its rights ?

Elvis Presley, Elvis Presley

Sorry he left the building, and never returned.

Who he?

I've been reading this thread with some interest and trepidation. It is very sad that some on here seem to have to try to belittle others tastes and impose their views as gospel.

There are also some who try to imply that they are more knowledgeable just because they play an instrument when actually they are not so. They are though of by some and alluded to as some sort of sage or wisdom of the forum which they seem to believe. They are clearly not and are quite frankly elitist snobs. This is not a difference of opinion which is leads to a fun debate.....this is just about asserting their perceived superiority over others in a vain attempt to improve their banal and empty lives.

Others just sit here to poke jibes as they have anonimity and no recourse to there statements. I am frankly completely pissed off with the whole situation. I have tended to frequent the music room of this forum as up to recently this seemed immune from this type of posting, but it clearly appears that this is not the case.

I am therefore going to remove myself from this forum. I am not looking for a response or sympathy or anything else for that matter. I just though I would make my view known before I bugger off.

To the people that I have met or had positive correspondence with....I wish you all the best and hope we can keep in touch.

Ryan

Dear Ryan,

It is the use of English and the belittling of its beauty, and subtlety with the use of pathetic hyperbole that peeves me. If every second person is a genius [ie scored A+ at A-level], or ever favourite piece of music is a classic, then to be a genius or for a piece of music to be a classic means nothing more than just ahead of the distribution curve - not exceptional at all.

As far as I am concerned if it please a person to listen to Muse, then that is their delight! Not mine but fine for them!

But a classic is something that is very rare. No music written after 1914 can possibly yet begin to qualify as classic!

However, I do agree that the Forum is at the lowest ebb I have ever seen - posting about freezing CDs in the Music Room - and so on. I can see my self buggering off before too long and leave the asylum ...

It has become a place where humour is so often deliberately misread by people old enough to know better, a place where pedants actually join the dumbing down brigade, and people with "cod" philosophy and science are revered over common sense, and real science and philosophy.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by m0omo0:
Now, isn't it time for this one to enter the scene and reclaim its rights ?

Elvis Presley, Elvis Presley

I have to acknowledge, this is a classic.

Another 50 years will secure it as such, though my money is on it making the line.

ATB from George

Consciousness, is there a particular reason why you don't rate 'Duncan Browne' ahead of 'Give me take you'?

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Another 50 years will secure it as such, though my money is on it making the line.

At last! It sounds like some sort of concession.
Dear George, is this the passing of time ?

I heard Mark Lamar and Suzie Q chatting the other week about Elvis and so on and the considered judgement was that Roy O was better in every way other than sex appeal. I'm an Elvis fan, mind.

The U.S. was Elvis crazy till the Beatles got here. I remember it well.

A few not mentioned (I think) that I would call classics

Neil Young - After the Gold Rush
Buffalo Springfield - S/T
Prince - 1999
Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
Stevie Wonder - Innervisions/SITKOL/Talking Book
Yes - The Yes Album
Counting Crows - August and Everything After
The Merry Go Round - Listen, Listen
Moby Grape - S/T
RUN DMC
Public Enemy - It takes a nation of millions
De La Soul - Three Feet High and Rising
NWA - Straight Outta Compton
Allman Brothers - Live at the Fillmore East
Paul Butterfield - East West
Eva Cassidy - Songbird
Aerosmith - Dream On
Linda Ronstadt - Living in the USA
Jackson Browne - Late for the Sky


Just off the top of my head...

The point missed by several above still stands. Music consists of genres...genres emerge and evolve. Within each genre there are clear classics which define the genre.

Failure to recognise the above, does demonstrate a failure to grasp the organic nature of music and art. Never Mind the Bollocks may be despised by many as crass and superfical (and indeed it is) - it is however and undoubted classic.

Time, far from helping define classics, often tends to blur what a defining moment is within a genre.

There is another factor to consider here.

George's concern is that we are seeing an increased amount of music labled as classic. I'd agree here, we are. I think the reason for this is simply that the last century opened up creative expression to the masses - the genres that evolved enabled folk to create/write music themselves in massively increased numbers.

I don't really buy into the notion of genius too much. I am sure that there are thousands of folk (women especially) who were the match of Mozart but lacked the opportunity to learn how to write music. In recent years the opportunity to compose has opened up exponentially, it therefore follows that we should see more inspirational folk, producing inspirational music. It's common sense.

But Ryam is right. To suggest that Patti Smith is any less of a genius than Brahms or Parker is quite frankly ludicrous and a gross oversimplication of the nature of things.

Now Matt is just getting silly.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
Now Matt is just getting silly.

Truth always hurts the sensitive Mike.

Silly, as I define it, would be to suggest that 1914 as date means anything whatsover. Equally silly would be to suggest that music exists in a vacuum filled by a few dull sorts playing dusty old instruments.

Dictionary's in the post mate.

Silly is dreaming of a world of dozens of Mozarts, if only they could write music.

I think understanding Mozart may be out of reach for you, because of a lack of focus.

Still, I agree with much of what you say. Sometimes, you simply say to much, reaching far beyond what you really understand and know.

I'm not hurt at all, just having a laugh at your excess.

But Mike, how can you say that there wouldn't be numerous Mozarts? Only a very limited few had access to things he had access to...do you expect me (or anybody) to believe that a genius, just so happened to be born into a circle that provided the soil for that fruit? Logically Mike it doesn't stack up...the european continent was a blip on the world and you consider that only in that area genius would take root? I simply can't see it Mike.

As you know, I enjoy banter with yourself and George...but you are both quite naughty sometimes in dismissing the logic of others. At times it's almost like arguing with somebody who still clings to religion, you can only see the logic as it is supported by your belief and anything external to that is 'silly' or 'cod'.

I say that in good faith Mike, I am also naughty from time to time in being dismissive of anything or anybody being reverential.

It makes for good press though.

Mat, I'll let you know if I find any trace of logic in what you write.

Reality is based in what does happen, not what might happen.

Do I think talent is rare? Yes I do.

But this thread is not the right topic to discuss this in. I am sure our discussion is far afield of the OP's intentions.

If you really want to talk this out, either start a new thread, or post your philosophy to the thread on personal musical evolutions i started yesterday :-) I can't continue this here.

And Mat, I think I have a good feel for your basic knowledge of music. It's not a very impressive foundation for such strong views.