Name a classic al***.

Mat, I am also very sad.

My approach to music is based in love of music.

I bend my intellect to the sound, to better comprehend everything I hear.

Everything about the way you respond to music seems to be grounded in a sense of opposition.

In embracing everything, I think you reject much of value.

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than achieving a sense of communion in musical matters with you.

I am sure you could teach me something.

That is a gentle thing, not rooted in debate.

If we could be more gentle with each other, reveling in the bits we find common ground in, I think we might find friendship in that common cause. That is worth something, in and of itself.

And we both might find more enjoyment in the music that way ...

What do you think of that concept?

Mike mate,

I think internet blogs are odd things. We are all larger than life - in some ways this is good, in others bad.

I have no doubt I could learn to enjoy more classical music, gain more appreciation of it, following discussions with you. I've never denied this...in fact, I've said so.

I think we both love music...that much is clear, and let's not forget, in a world where little is valued, that's a wonderful shared value.

My contention Mike is that music is about many things, context being one of them. Trying to understand the context unlocks many doors for me - I'm far too old to go clubbing, but I've studied so called 'electronica' or 'dance' music for example...and found much that I love and appreciate. For me, even album artwork is important and has it's place.

In this way, in this context, exceptional works exist in all corners of the music store Mike.

If I see a genre being dismissed as being inferior or not of equal worth, I will always disagree. You see, I see death metal, pop, punk, rap, classical, jazz etc etc as all avenues of creation. I really don't see one being in any way 'better' than the other.

To suggest that 'jazz' for example, is 'better' or more worthy than 'country' is simple ignorance. To say you don't like country is obviously totally valid.

I would expect Mike, after a few beers we would find ourselves in agreement over many things musical.

We certainly would on other matters, like you, I am a huge admirer of Obama.

No hard feelings at all Mike, just cyber banter, and if I in any way offended you, of course I apologise without reservation.

Focus on communion :-)

I have never written anything degrading about any music here, excepting the early German atonal music, which I find devoid of any sense of hope, which for personal reasons I can not accept. At least that's the way I remember it.

But if we are going to discuss music, I want every conversation to begin with a clear and unambiguous statement about what there is to love.

General pronouncements about the nature of music sound hollow to my ears.

Specific observations about what there is to love in some specific piece seem to my ears to be full of import and value.

I am curious about all music, and explore incessantly.

I am hoping that is a shared value.

How about you?

It is Mike.

Numerous things could attract me though Mike. If somebody told me that:

Nick Drake was one of Englands finest songwriters - I'd be interested.

Anne Briggs had the finest voice in womens folk - I'd listen.

Autechre - were at the cutting edge of electronic music and provided a whole ep without repetitive beats - I'd want to hear it.

Albert Ayler - was in absolute torment as he played, loathed to record his music, but produced music of intense emotion - I'd perk up.

If you sat me down and had me listening to a specific piece by Beethoven, of course, I'd want to learn where you're coming from.

Along the way, I'll here stuff and think...ok, interesting, but not for me.

In my eyes the last century has been a briliant creative flash from musical humanity, so much creativity, development and astonishing music...of course, an awful lot of mediocrity.

The fact that we have to look at different genres differently, listen for and experience different things is magical IMO.

I have spent a good deal of time recently listening to J.S. Bach's Well Tempered Clavier (WTC).

Most of the music I've listened to recently establishes it's motive force in the melodies, but this music is moved forward by the harmonic progressions.

Learning to hear that opened a whole new world of feeling.

I've also been absorbing Miles Davis "Porgy and Bess", some of this is driven by melody, but much of it is a color driven "impression" or mood.

I think you might enjoy a listen to Beethoven's Opus 109 piano sonata. I recommend Pollini.
The melody is transcendental, and things happen harmonically that give me chills.


So why don't you recommend some specific thing to me, and give me a clue what to listen for?

I think we've been here before Mike and never followed it through.

Ok, I'll have a listen to the pieces you suggest, tell me what to listen for and I'll go for it. I'm sure it will add to my experience of them. The Miles Davis piece I know well and is a favourite of mine...the JS Bach I believe the wife has.

I'll think of something to suggest. Ideally, something that will require you to understand the context of the medium. You're thing is melody etc, my thing is communication...so I'll aim for that.

You may not ultimately like what I suggest...but that's now what we're talking about really is it. Neither is any comparison of the peices. It's about disovery and understanding.

An interesting aside (IMO) would be to compaire Davis with Coltrane. Davis I can see would interest you, but Coltrane is more visceral and takes a less structured approach to his music. Maybe your yin and my yang.

Crying baby madness at the moment, but leave it with me, and I'll suggest something.

On Davis and Coltrane, I see the fundamental distinction being between melodic (Davis) and harmonic (Coltrane) invention. I can provide good examples of this, unfortunately I can also provide counter examples that disprove this. I think that is a moving target, as both of them were relentlessly reinventing themselves.

But as an anchor point I would take "Seven Steps to Heaven" and "Giant Steps".

I think they demonstrate my point.

I don't see Coltrane as structurally loose, always finding form in his harmony (well, at least that was true early on).

Counter examples are "SoulTrane" where Coltrane shows his way with a melody, and "Bitch's Brew" where Davis forsakes melody.

I think this demonstrates something useful in talking about them. More is to be gained by comparing specific albums, or even singular tunes, than in generalizations.

Mat, I would prefer if you started with something completely removed from what I listen to. Something from a totally new galaxy of experience, and hopefully recent. Davis and Coltrane are so familiar to me, I'll be walking in a well worn track.

So put me in a new and unfamiliar place, OK :-)

Mike,

We do agree you see...what you've provided above re: Davis and 'trane is spot on. My interest in Coltrane tends to be around the Crescent/Love Supreme era, where he's cutting loose a little more. Mingus and Coleman are interesting guys to roll into the pot here as well.

My initial, issues on this thread, related to the contention that classic albums had to be before the Great War. For the reasons provided I still think most would agree this to be fundamentally flawed...here's where we ended up going off thread...boring the board and making lemons of ourselves Mike.

In order to protect others from our ramblings, please email me at mat dot cork at gmail dot com and I'll provide something for us to discuss. Maybe Spotify is the medium to use?

See you offboard...Mat

Spot on Munch.

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
Here is a classic.

just the cover alone is classic!

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
John a quick question off thread though.
In your record room ?
The stacking of your lp racks a cant remember??
Are they all 8 section racks stacked ontop of each other?
Have you got a 8 section ontop of a 16 section rack???
Would like to know before i go there??
Stu

Munch -

Sorry I missed this - did you get my email?

My racks are ikea expedit, two 2x4's on top of two 4x4's or as you say two 8's on top of two 16's (side by side) make a wall of 6x8 cubes. Then I just added another 2x4 on the side, standing vertically, so I added another 8 cubes.

John

I think the concept for this thread was spine tingling music. Try this: