New Naim DAC at my house today - initial thoughts and experiments.
Posted by: GrahamFinch on 11 December 2009
I have been lucky enough to acquire a new Naim DAC from my dealer today. To put things into perspective for you I want to use it instead of a Dacmagic used with a SOnos wireless system to stream music from my PC to my main system (cds3\555ps\552\250-2, Allaes, powerlines and hilines etc. The digital cable is an Atlas coax cable.
Initially I played a few tracks on the existing Sonos\Dacmagic and then connected the Naim Dac. At this point I used the same Chord Cobra 3 phono to din lead that I used with the Dacmagic. Bearing in mind the Naim DAC was just out of the box it sounded pretty good but with a degree of harshness and sibilence I did not like.
As Naim recommend DIN connections I swapped the Cobra 3 for the standard Naim grey interconnect. This improved the sibilence but maybe at the expense of something else. Overall thought I thought it sounded more natural and less strident. Possibly the edginess would have eased anyway as the unit burns in but I would suggest it is something to consider.
After a while I used one of my Hilines to replace the standard interconnect and this borught about a fantastic imporvement, in the way it usually does. CLeaner, more dynamic, quieter background, better separation etc. A while later I substituted the standard mains lead with a Powerline and another huge improvement followed. This brought the overallpresentation towards the sound I get from the CDS3\555ps
I will try over the weekend to see which cable gives most benefit i.e if forced to choose only one cable whether it should be the Powerline or the Hiline.
I listened happily for ages and then the final experiment was to add the 555ps. It is worth pointing out that wHen adding an external ps the DAC itself must still be powered from its own power socket. It is not necessary to use a Powerline on the DAC at this point as it will only power the software side of the unit whilst the external ps will power the D\A conversion side of things. So at this point the Powerline was connceted to the 555ps. This took the setup to another dimension but whether the setup rivalled or beat my CDS3\555ps is hard to say at this stage. I only have one 555ps so would have needed to swap everything about. I sense the DAC\555ps was probably slightly more laid back than the CDS3 but I will hopefully try that experiment later this weekend.
My conclusions so far are that the new DAC is very good but can sound significantly better with the Hiline and Powerline added. I would suggest if you have a higher end system you really ought to consider these as a priority as this setup represents great value in my view, especially considering the significant extra cost of an external ps.
I would like to have tried a Naim DC1 digital cable instead of my Atlas as I have read that these are very good, albeit £225 each. Presumably the DAC was designed around this cable. Unfortunately my dealer did not have one to try.
The Sonos system works a treat with the DAC and is a very convenient way of listening to music.I haven't yet tried playing from a USB stick or any other digital source.
My overall conclusion based on a few hours listening is that I will not be retuning the DAC to the dealer and will be enquiring about the possibility of getting a deal on another Powerline and a Hiline.
For those of you waiting I think it will be worth it.
Initially I played a few tracks on the existing Sonos\Dacmagic and then connected the Naim Dac. At this point I used the same Chord Cobra 3 phono to din lead that I used with the Dacmagic. Bearing in mind the Naim DAC was just out of the box it sounded pretty good but with a degree of harshness and sibilence I did not like.
As Naim recommend DIN connections I swapped the Cobra 3 for the standard Naim grey interconnect. This improved the sibilence but maybe at the expense of something else. Overall thought I thought it sounded more natural and less strident. Possibly the edginess would have eased anyway as the unit burns in but I would suggest it is something to consider.
After a while I used one of my Hilines to replace the standard interconnect and this borught about a fantastic imporvement, in the way it usually does. CLeaner, more dynamic, quieter background, better separation etc. A while later I substituted the standard mains lead with a Powerline and another huge improvement followed. This brought the overallpresentation towards the sound I get from the CDS3\555ps
I will try over the weekend to see which cable gives most benefit i.e if forced to choose only one cable whether it should be the Powerline or the Hiline.
I listened happily for ages and then the final experiment was to add the 555ps. It is worth pointing out that wHen adding an external ps the DAC itself must still be powered from its own power socket. It is not necessary to use a Powerline on the DAC at this point as it will only power the software side of the unit whilst the external ps will power the D\A conversion side of things. So at this point the Powerline was connceted to the 555ps. This took the setup to another dimension but whether the setup rivalled or beat my CDS3\555ps is hard to say at this stage. I only have one 555ps so would have needed to swap everything about. I sense the DAC\555ps was probably slightly more laid back than the CDS3 but I will hopefully try that experiment later this weekend.
My conclusions so far are that the new DAC is very good but can sound significantly better with the Hiline and Powerline added. I would suggest if you have a higher end system you really ought to consider these as a priority as this setup represents great value in my view, especially considering the significant extra cost of an external ps.
I would like to have tried a Naim DC1 digital cable instead of my Atlas as I have read that these are very good, albeit £225 each. Presumably the DAC was designed around this cable. Unfortunately my dealer did not have one to try.
The Sonos system works a treat with the DAC and is a very convenient way of listening to music.I haven't yet tried playing from a USB stick or any other digital source.
My overall conclusion based on a few hours listening is that I will not be retuning the DAC to the dealer and will be enquiring about the possibility of getting a deal on another Powerline and a Hiline.
For those of you waiting I think it will be worth it.
GrahamFinch, interesting and long-awaited review.
Worth to borrow a second burnt-in 555PS and repeat a head-to-head death match between the two with both HiLine'd and both PowerLine'd
I'm a bit skeptical about Sonos as proper digital front for the DAC. I remember my test of SB3 against Transporter through the non-reclocking DAC and Transporter trashed SB3 in a very audible way.
Naim DAC is re-clocking but it does not mean it can reject any jitter. We have to keep in mind that CDS3 transport is extremely low jitter so that CDS3's built-in DAC does need re-clocking.
It would be logical to repeat your tests with higher quality digital sources like HDX or CDX2-2.
Worth to borrow a second burnt-in 555PS and repeat a head-to-head death match between the two with both HiLine'd and both PowerLine'd
I'm a bit skeptical about Sonos as proper digital front for the DAC. I remember my test of SB3 against Transporter through the non-reclocking DAC and Transporter trashed SB3 in a very audible way.
Naim DAC is re-clocking but it does not mean it can reject any jitter. We have to keep in mind that CDS3 transport is extremely low jitter so that CDS3's built-in DAC does need re-clocking.
It would be logical to repeat your tests with higher quality digital sources like HDX or CDX2-2.
quote:Originally posted by munch:He is keeping it.quote:Originally posted by DHT:
Are you going to compare it to any other dacs, other than the dacmagic of course?
Why would some one buy a new dac to replace the one he has and then go and compare it to other DACS
Why not?
I would if I had friends who is interested to hear the Naim Dac, I will invite them over with their dac.quote:Originally posted by GrahamFinch:quote:It would be logical to repeat your tests with higher quality digital sources like HDX or CDX2-2.
That's a job for the Hifi magazines. I chose a Sonos as an affordable way to stream my music. An HDX may well be better but my Sonos cost less than £700 and still sounds very good with the Naim DAC. I don;'t fancy re-ripping all my cd's again although one advantage of the HDX is its bit for bit accurate ripping. I used dbpoweramp secure ripping to external (backed up) hard drives.
GrahamFinch, fair enough. Your considerations are the same as mine (except I base my streaming on Logitech rather than Sonos).
We actually can't say that Sonos or SB3 is not good for Naim DAC. I was just thinking of how could we find this out.
Moreover, if you approach CDS3 performance with Sonos then possibly there is no need for further tests
I just wonder who is going to buy HDX then?
quote:Originally posted by kent:
AMA,
Are you in the US?
No, but I'm very impressed with assortment of various Hi-End audio on display which New-Yorkers can audition before make a next step.
Comparing to our dealers it's like a Big Mall against a bakery down the street
Nice reading, Graham!
But the posts like this normally raise more questions
Agree, PL is a universal piece. I use it on different non-naim preamps with very good results and also improve the sound on PS Audio DLIII DAC. When it comes down to a single PL I would avoid using word "significant" for my cases and prefer call it "marginal" as it contributes less than for example adding external PS or stepping up in Naim range. But when put PLs all around your system it gives a really significant cumulative improvement especially when complemented with HiLine. My friend has put PLs all around his tube gears and seems to be happy!
That was my big question for a long time: can re-clocking DACs (like Lavry) reject a jitter completely from the cheap streamers like Sonos and Squeezbox. Your experience suggests that Sonos is a good (or even flawless) digital transport -- at least when paired with re-clocking DAC.
It's very encouraging.
Did you make tests against Logitech (Slim Devices) streamers?
You tell me -- I don't have CD555 with two 555PS
I'm not even having a Naim DAC yet!
Long awaited analysis.
I mean it's not that surprising when we talk about sound clarity as Naim DAC provides better jitter handling than CDS3 non-reclocking DAC. But digital pre-processing and output stage is a key for CDS3 singing -- do we have the same in Naim DAC or it suggests a new voicing?
Do you feel it's a step up from Lavry?
I suppose it was a misprint and you probably mean Sonos/Coax/Lavry vs Mac/Tosslink/Lavry. There was a number of threads around with focus on PC/Mac vs dedicated streaming solutions. I was supporting that streamers are sonically ahead of USB solutions at the moment. But I never tried Mac/Tosslink as a transport.
But the posts like this normally raise more questions
quote:
I use a Sonos through a Lavry DA10 + Powerline. The Powerline makes a significant improvement to the Lavry.
Agree, PL is a universal piece. I use it on different non-naim preamps with very good results and also improve the sound on PS Audio DLIII DAC. When it comes down to a single PL I would avoid using word "significant" for my cases and prefer call it "marginal" as it contributes less than for example adding external PS or stepping up in Naim range. But when put PLs all around your system it gives a really significant cumulative improvement especially when complemented with HiLine. My friend has put PLs all around his tube gears and seems to be happy!
quote:This combo comes close to my CD555 with dual 555PSes. I can believe it takes the DAC up a level.
That was my big question for a long time: can re-clocking DACs (like Lavry) reject a jitter completely from the cheap streamers like Sonos and Squeezbox. Your experience suggests that Sonos is a good (or even flawless) digital transport -- at least when paired with re-clocking DAC.
It's very encouraging.
Did you make tests against Logitech (Slim Devices) streamers?
quote:
For serious listening the CD player is better, but is it £19k better???
You tell me -- I don't have CD555 with two 555PS
I'm not even having a Naim DAC yet! quote:
Assuming the Naim DAC is a step up from the Lavry I can believe it leads the way over a CDS3. Even with a Sonos as source.
Long awaited analysis.
I mean it's not that surprising when we talk about sound clarity as Naim DAC provides better jitter handling than CDS3 non-reclocking DAC. But digital pre-processing and output stage is a key for CDS3 singing -- do we have the same in Naim DAC or it suggests a new voicing?
Do you feel it's a step up from Lavry?
quote:
Tests last year in my system concluded that a Sonos/Lavry via coax sounded better than Mac/Sonos via optical.
I suppose it was a misprint and you probably mean Sonos/Coax/Lavry vs Mac/Tosslink/Lavry. There was a number of threads around with focus on PC/Mac vs dedicated streaming solutions. I was supporting that streamers are sonically ahead of USB solutions at the moment. But I never tried Mac/Tosslink as a transport.