New Naim DAC at my house today - initial thoughts and experiments.
Posted by: GrahamFinch on 11 December 2009
I have been lucky enough to acquire a new Naim DAC from my dealer today. To put things into perspective for you I want to use it instead of a Dacmagic used with a SOnos wireless system to stream music from my PC to my main system (cds3\555ps\552\250-2, Allaes, powerlines and hilines etc. The digital cable is an Atlas coax cable.
Initially I played a few tracks on the existing Sonos\Dacmagic and then connected the Naim Dac. At this point I used the same Chord Cobra 3 phono to din lead that I used with the Dacmagic. Bearing in mind the Naim DAC was just out of the box it sounded pretty good but with a degree of harshness and sibilence I did not like.
As Naim recommend DIN connections I swapped the Cobra 3 for the standard Naim grey interconnect. This improved the sibilence but maybe at the expense of something else. Overall thought I thought it sounded more natural and less strident. Possibly the edginess would have eased anyway as the unit burns in but I would suggest it is something to consider.
After a while I used one of my Hilines to replace the standard interconnect and this borught about a fantastic imporvement, in the way it usually does. CLeaner, more dynamic, quieter background, better separation etc. A while later I substituted the standard mains lead with a Powerline and another huge improvement followed. This brought the overallpresentation towards the sound I get from the CDS3\555ps
I will try over the weekend to see which cable gives most benefit i.e if forced to choose only one cable whether it should be the Powerline or the Hiline.
I listened happily for ages and then the final experiment was to add the 555ps. It is worth pointing out that wHen adding an external ps the DAC itself must still be powered from its own power socket. It is not necessary to use a Powerline on the DAC at this point as it will only power the software side of the unit whilst the external ps will power the D\A conversion side of things. So at this point the Powerline was connceted to the 555ps. This took the setup to another dimension but whether the setup rivalled or beat my CDS3\555ps is hard to say at this stage. I only have one 555ps so would have needed to swap everything about. I sense the DAC\555ps was probably slightly more laid back than the CDS3 but I will hopefully try that experiment later this weekend.
My conclusions so far are that the new DAC is very good but can sound significantly better with the Hiline and Powerline added. I would suggest if you have a higher end system you really ought to consider these as a priority as this setup represents great value in my view, especially considering the significant extra cost of an external ps.
I would like to have tried a Naim DC1 digital cable instead of my Atlas as I have read that these are very good, albeit £225 each. Presumably the DAC was designed around this cable. Unfortunately my dealer did not have one to try.
The Sonos system works a treat with the DAC and is a very convenient way of listening to music.I haven't yet tried playing from a USB stick or any other digital source.
My overall conclusion based on a few hours listening is that I will not be retuning the DAC to the dealer and will be enquiring about the possibility of getting a deal on another Powerline and a Hiline.
For those of you waiting I think it will be worth it.
Initially I played a few tracks on the existing Sonos\Dacmagic and then connected the Naim Dac. At this point I used the same Chord Cobra 3 phono to din lead that I used with the Dacmagic. Bearing in mind the Naim DAC was just out of the box it sounded pretty good but with a degree of harshness and sibilence I did not like.
As Naim recommend DIN connections I swapped the Cobra 3 for the standard Naim grey interconnect. This improved the sibilence but maybe at the expense of something else. Overall thought I thought it sounded more natural and less strident. Possibly the edginess would have eased anyway as the unit burns in but I would suggest it is something to consider.
After a while I used one of my Hilines to replace the standard interconnect and this borught about a fantastic imporvement, in the way it usually does. CLeaner, more dynamic, quieter background, better separation etc. A while later I substituted the standard mains lead with a Powerline and another huge improvement followed. This brought the overallpresentation towards the sound I get from the CDS3\555ps
I will try over the weekend to see which cable gives most benefit i.e if forced to choose only one cable whether it should be the Powerline or the Hiline.
I listened happily for ages and then the final experiment was to add the 555ps. It is worth pointing out that wHen adding an external ps the DAC itself must still be powered from its own power socket. It is not necessary to use a Powerline on the DAC at this point as it will only power the software side of the unit whilst the external ps will power the D\A conversion side of things. So at this point the Powerline was connceted to the 555ps. This took the setup to another dimension but whether the setup rivalled or beat my CDS3\555ps is hard to say at this stage. I only have one 555ps so would have needed to swap everything about. I sense the DAC\555ps was probably slightly more laid back than the CDS3 but I will hopefully try that experiment later this weekend.
My conclusions so far are that the new DAC is very good but can sound significantly better with the Hiline and Powerline added. I would suggest if you have a higher end system you really ought to consider these as a priority as this setup represents great value in my view, especially considering the significant extra cost of an external ps.
I would like to have tried a Naim DC1 digital cable instead of my Atlas as I have read that these are very good, albeit £225 each. Presumably the DAC was designed around this cable. Unfortunately my dealer did not have one to try.
The Sonos system works a treat with the DAC and is a very convenient way of listening to music.I haven't yet tried playing from a USB stick or any other digital source.
My overall conclusion based on a few hours listening is that I will not be retuning the DAC to the dealer and will be enquiring about the possibility of getting a deal on another Powerline and a Hiline.
For those of you waiting I think it will be worth it.
I find it very surprising that some folks here are taking a very reasonable review to be more than it is. He's using a SONOS as a source and the big fix was using a stock cable instead of an aftermarket one that was chosen for a DACmagic when it was cold. Why would anyone be surprised that he may opine it doesn't sound as good as a CDS3 when using a Sonos as source.
As far as almost all that have tried them, every piece of kit needs the HiLine and PowerLine fix.
Why would it surprise that an outboard supply makes it better. I think some of this has to be taken with a grain of salt due to source. The relative differences will be there but general level of goodness and amount of change with the add ons will be relative to quality of source. Using a Sonos as source, though good for what it is, is like being disappointed that you haven't set the fasted lap time in your new Ferarri when the track was wet.
Perspective people. Nothings for everyone but you won't know until you try it yourself.
As far as almost all that have tried them, every piece of kit needs the HiLine and PowerLine fix.
Why would it surprise that an outboard supply makes it better. I think some of this has to be taken with a grain of salt due to source. The relative differences will be there but general level of goodness and amount of change with the add ons will be relative to quality of source. Using a Sonos as source, though good for what it is, is like being disappointed that you haven't set the fasted lap time in your new Ferarri when the track was wet.
Perspective people. Nothings for everyone but you won't know until you try it yourself.
quote:Many thanks Richard.
When is the/is there a Naim streamer coming? Seems to be a growing momentum for the Linn solution.
RR
RR, now it's a perfect time to move thread to Distributed Audio
quote:Originally posted by AMA:quote:Many thanks Richard.
When is the/is there a Naim streamer coming? Seems to be a growing momentum for the Linn solution.
RR
RR, now it's a perfect time to move thread to Distributed Audio
RR, I couldn't possibly comment on this. What I will say is that on top of the DAC and S-600s, on my last visit to the factory there are some really cool things coming for 2010 and they will be well worth waiting for... Apart from that, my lips are sealed!!
Out of interest, and getting back on topic, I'm a CDS3 user and on the strength of the demo I've had at Naim, I have ordered the DAC. I like the streaming concept and so the DAC will be one half of the perfect digital front-end. All we need now is a streamer that will really do it justice...
And on that note, this thread is moving...
Richard,quote:Originally posted by Richard Dane:quote:Originally posted by AMA:quote:Many thanks Richard.
When is the/is there a Naim streamer coming? Seems to be a growing momentum for the Linn solution.
RR
RR, now it's a perfect time to move thread to Distributed Audio
RR, I couldn't possibly comment on this. What I will say is that on top of the DAC and S-600s, on my last visit to the factory there are some really cool things coming for 2010 and they will be well worth waiting for... Apart from that, my lips are sealed!!
Out of interest, and getting back on topic, I'm a CDS3 user and on the strength of the demo I've had at Naim, I have ordered the DAC. I like the streaming concept and so the DAC will be one half of the perfect digital front-end. All we need now is a streamer that will really do it justice...
And on that note, this thread is moving...
Its all over the world and the internet.
Why take last nights thread away?
A bit of shutting the door after the horse.
Stu
quote:Originally posted by Richard Dane:
I like the streaming concept and so the DAC will be one half of the perfect digital front-end. All we need now is a streamer that will really do it justice...
You surely don't mean that! Why would you want a separate streamer? Surely a 'perfect digital front end' would be to endow the DAC with an ethernet input and appropriate software to access music data on the network alongside the currently existing s/pdif and other inputs. Add a volume control and you really would be talking. One box with an ethernet input for streaming, s/pdif inputs for your tv and legacy cd player, usb for your ipod .. a complete digital preamp. Only one mains lead and one power-supply to upgrade though. Ahh .. that's why you want a separate box
quote:Originally posted by likesmusic:quote:Originally posted by Richard Dane:
I like the streaming concept and so the DAC will be one half of the perfect digital front-end. All we need now is a streamer that will really do it justice...
You surely don't mean that! Why would you want a separate streamer? Surely a 'perfect digital front end' would be to endow the DAC with an ethernet input and appropriate software to access music data on the network alongside the currently existing s/pdif and other inputs. Add a volume control and you really would be talking. One box with an ethernet input for streaming, s/pdif inputs for your tv and legacy cd player, usb for your ipod .. a complete digital preamp. Only one mains lead and one power-supply to upgrade though. Ahh .. that's why you want a separate box
Don't listen to him, he still doesn't get it.
Just a simple separate box with NAS-/fileserver access, internet access and streamer capabilities to feed into the new DAC.
Ethernet Gigabit port, if perse needed, some WiFi is OK.
Some software to have a nice user interface on screen, on web and for an iPod.
Some nice lossless codecs like FLAC, APE, ALAC, WAV etc. (MP3, OGG is OK for those who want it).
That's all I want and I'll be a happy camper
-
aleg
quote:Originally posted by Aleg:
Just a simple separate box with NAS-/fileserver access, internet access and streamer capabilities to feed into the new DAC.
Ethernet Gigabit port, if perse needed, some WiFi is OK.
Some software to have a nice user interface on screen, on web and for an iPod.
hmmmm sounds ALOT like a computer to me. Cut out the middle man.... there is bound to be a PC/Mac at the front of everything.
Why are you not clamoring for Naim to release a PCI-express DAC?
Then you could get 555ps for your Dell.
-p
quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:quote:Originally posted by Aleg:
Just a simple separate box with NAS-/fileserver access, internet access and streamer capabilities to feed into the new DAC.
Ethernet Gigabit port, if perse needed, some WiFi is OK.
Some software to have a nice user interface on screen, on web and for an iPod.
hmmmm sounds ALOT like a computer to me. Cut out the middle man.... there is bound to be a PC/Mac at the front of everything.
Why are you not clamoring for Naim to release a PCI-express DAC?
Then you could get 555ps for your Dell.
-p
Nope, there is no PC/MAC at the front.
Two floors up there is a Linux based NAS with 5 big discs and a few cooling fans, which just acts as a fileserver to my streamer.
That is where I would like to keep it and I hope to be able to just plug in my future new Naim streamer in my cat5-cable system just as I now do with my lovely small PCH.
And yes, a digital streamer is for 90% a sort of computer, it couldn't be any other way I think.
But please keep all those noisy general purpose computers out of my listening area. As soon as a device has a fan, I won't buy it for my listening area. Period!
My NAS has no Upnp, Twonky, WOnky or whatever streaming software running, just plain NFS and my diskless, fanless streamer just gets what it needs directly from my NAS.
-
aleg
Give us an update in a few days. 