What are considered the best flat earth amps after Naim

Nagra.

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Originally posted by ClaudeP:
Nagra.

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VPA is pretty round earthed. imho.

MPA, OTOH, whilst it does lots of round earthy stuff, it can groove. Not as transparent or does not have the edge of a seat Naim sound.

PLL and PLP, they sound more solid state ( in a good way ) than NAC 252. Actually they are similar except for Nagra preamp's leaner tonal balance.

I personally have a liking for the DNM amps - in some ways flatter than Naim (faster, more basic) and in other ways rounder (better imaging).

However, these days I prefer the Naim 52 balance of virtues - even though it's a tough call between my old 3B and the 52.

John

I like VTL and Consonance,both are tubed,depends on speakers too

Creek anyone ?

Hi Richard

I think Creek are a bit middle of the road but quite good. We had a Exposure X amp years ago which was really good, wish we still had it. Thinking of buying another one to replace the Rega Elex in our study system.

Colin

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Originally posted by Naimerhifi:
Are you kidding about Audio Note ?

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Audio Note, despite being valve-based, is a very flat-earth sounding manufacturer. Think of flat-earth with added purity. Both Audio Note Japan and Audio Note UK are excellent (the UK ones offering better vfm).

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

NVA

Terra,

My comment on Cary on the other thread, indeed is based on my dealing with 805C, 300B and 2A3 monos along with their preamps. Have I not listened to other vavle offerings, I would have came to the same conclusion as many. i.e. Valve gear always sounds soft,slow and 'round'. Interestingly, later I found out that it is more of a struggle to find a solid state amplifier that matches my amps' bass agilitly, dynamics and tonal purity within my means and practical needs.

I highly doubt that we can convince too many folks here as there are many many roundearth sounding valve amps around.

Pathos

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Originally posted by terra plantsa:
i think that some people's impressions on valve amps being automatically "round earth" owes a lot to them hearing them on unsympathetic systems. with SETs, especially, you have to have speakers which are very easy to drive (a very benign impedance load) and an overdamped bass alignment also helps, as valve in general, and SETs, in particular, don't have the damping factor that solid-state amps have.

the problem with valves, however, is that the resultant sound you get is always a moving target. people would tell you, you gotta have the right vintage valves, you have to have the latest oil capacitors, etc. so that depending on what tubes/parts you have on youyr valve amp, it could sound ponderous, shrieky, etc.

kuma mentions cary on the other thread...i had the cary sei for 10 years, and during that time, i also had ownership of all sorts of amps (valve and solid-state). it was that amp that formed my basis in eventually choosing naim, believe it or not. sympathetically partnered with efficient, overdamped speakers, it gave me a very flat earth sound, so enjoyable it was it was the only amp that i didn't get rid off in a decade (until late last year). cary does make some snoozers, though. their big 805s and even their 300B monoblocks are just plain "round".

audio note 300Bs as mentioned can also be very enjoyable and involving (isn't that what being "flat"'s about?). in the long run, however, my ears got tired of the pleasant second harmonic distortion that is endemic to all valve amps....hence the switch to naim.

i did just get delivery of a nait5. WOW! if you guys like the naim sound, but are put off by the edge-of-the-seat presentation, at times. try the new naim. i've only had a nait5/flatcap2 on the new series, but i could clearly hear that adding to the typical naim sound is a hint of tonal and harmonic richness that is a bit lacking on the olive series. i do have a nait2, 42/110, and 102/180 in-house, too, so my views are based on actual listening.

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I agree what you write in the beginning
of your post.what most people call valve sound
is what they hear when the amp looses control
about the speaker.if this is the case the
distortion will sound more harmonic to our ears
than the distortion of a transistor.
going out from the theoretical ideal the tube
amplifier has no problem to control the speaker
the sound will be the same as (a good)transistor.
but tube amplifiers construction problems increase if the technicians try to get a lot of power out of it, more than problems increase building a strong transistor.
So the(technical easyer way to go is for a speaker like a horn
or a broadband speaker because they can play
loud with less power because of their housing
and no need of frequency crossover.
My fafoured valve amp is hiragas jh 50,playing
this through a klipsch was imo
one of the best no tube sound performances i ever heared.
O.J.

to

Terra Plantsa posted: "in the long run, however, my ears got tired of the pleasant second harmonic distortion that is endemic to all valve amps....hence the switch to naim."

I am also in the process of moving from 300B SETs to Naim (I'm keeping the SETs, though.) After 8 years of SET, I think I was just ready for a change. I bought a Nait 3 for my video system, and ended up moving it to my audio system. Kept switching back and forth, could hear the good and bad in the Nait, but something just kept pulling me back. Interestingly enough, I think in recent years I've become more involved in the power of music than the beauty, if you know what I mean. The SETs gave me the beauty, but the Nait gave me the juice, and for now, at least, that's what's floating my boat. So, I'm jumping up to the 112/150 combo. Can't wait until they arrive!

Steve C.
Junior Member
said :
The SETs gave me the beauty, but the Nait gave me the juice, and for now, at least, that's what's floating my boat. So, I'm jumping up to the 112/150 combo. Can't wait until they arrive!

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Hallo,
what are your loudspeakers and cdplayers?
Did you compared and contrasted Nait3 and 112\150 combo?
if so, could you tell me something about it?
Thanks,
bye
David

David posted: "what are your loudspeakers and cdplayers? Did you compared and contrasted Nait3 and 112\150 combo? if so, could you tell me something about it?"

CD = Rega original Planet
Vinyl = Rega P9/RB900 with Denon 103D
Speakers = Spendor S100s on Sound Anchor stands

I am taking a complete chance on the 112/150. There is no Naim dealer here, but I decided to take the risk and purchased a set off of Audiogon. I will post a comparison once I have the new equipment, next week.

Steve

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Steve C.:

CD = Rega original Planet
Vinyl = Rega P9/RB900 with Denon 103D
Speakers = Spendor S100s on Sound Anchor stands

I am taking a complete chance on the 112/150. There is no Naim dealer here, but I decided to take the risk and purchased a set off of Audiogon. I will post a comparison once I have the new equipment, next week.

Steve
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Ok,I'm waiting for your next post.
thanks,
David

Cor - this post has got me thinking!
I heard some Exposure stuff a while back, perhaps Creek, probably Nytech, but what else is there really?

Paul

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Originally posted by prowla:
but what else is there really?

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Not much.

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Originally posted by kuma:

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Originally posted by prowla:
but what else is there really?

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Not much.

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FM,FM,FM! AM oh sorry we talk about amps
O.J.(listening naim with led zeppelin and a lot
of beer and tullamore whiskey)

I remember reading in an interview that Julian said he'd use a Conrad Johnson amp if he hadn't started Naim. Anyone heard them?

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Originally posted by kuma:

quote:

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Originally posted by ClaudeP:
Nagra.

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VPA is pretty round earthed. imho.

MPA, OTOH, whilst it does lots of round earthy stuff, it can groove. Not as transparent or does not have the edge of a seat Naim sound.

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About the same time last year, I heard a demo of a $180,000 system in a Montreal store. The system was about as roundearth as can be: Clearaudio analog front end, Nagra PLL, 2 x MPA for the bass and 1 VPA for the medium/highs. Speakers were Verity Audio.

It blew me away. Yes, the overall sound was more roundearth than my sistem, but it was very fast on its feet, and it could definitely rock. Probably the best sound I've ever heard (but I admit I have yet to hear CDS3/552/500).

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Originally posted by ClaudeP:
About the same time last year, I heard a demo of a $180,000 system in a Montreal store. The system was about as roundearth as can be: Clearaudio analog front end, Nagra PLL, 2 x MPA for the bass and 1 VPA for the medium/highs. Speakers were Verity Audio.

It blew me away. Yes, the overall sound was more roundearth than my sistem, but it was very fast on its feet, and it could definitely rock. Probably the best sound I've ever heard (but I admit I have yet to hear CDS3/552/500).

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Claude,

Yeah. Verity are round-earthed speakers. ( more so than mine, i'd say ) and I have also heard Verity/Nagra combo. For what it's worth, I thought it was pretty good.

A friend of mine is bringing a pair ( Parcifal ) today and we'll listen with my Naim frontend ( and CDS3) with MPA.
Will be interesting.

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Originally posted by kuma:
A friend of mine is bringing a pair ( Parcifal ) today and we'll listen with my Naim frontend ( and CDS3) with MPA.
Will be interesting.

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Wow! I'm eager to learn how it went. I asked the designer if he ever listened to the Parsifals with a Naim front end, but he said no.

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Originally posted by ClaudeP:
Wow! I'm eager to learn how it went. I asked the designer if he ever listened to the Parsifals with a Naim front end, but he said no.

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Claude,

It was all'n'all interesting.
As far as Nagra combo is concerned, it was not a good match with Parcifal either with Naim ( CDS3 /252) or with Accuphase CD player a friend brought along. We were expecting a better performance with Parcifal/Nagra since we all have heard the set up before albeit with DCS front end. Well, different source and cabling make big difference. Naim/Nagra paring I have tried in the past with different speakers and this was also not an ideal match. The system sounded much too much slow and thick. Parcifal compensate a lot in midbass and lowbass and they need sympathetic ancilaries to help aleviate weak area. Impressive bass output from the 4.5" drivers but you pay dearly in midrange open-ness. They sounded less linear than my speakers. Timing was so off-based on this system, it was a total bore and embarassment for all the gear involved.
FWIW, I normaly use MPA/PLL with Wilson WATT 6 with 47Lab digital frontend and no way they sound this slow and thick!

The dark horse, altho, Verity uses them at the factory, was Bel Canto Evo 6. ( bridged so, they output 360 watts or so ). This amp partnered with either Naim or Accuphse, the midrnage was more open and at least we got the life back to the music. it did not have the iron grip in the midbass, and we could still hear a slight thickness and blurred notes in the midabss.

The best result on Parcifal was had with Naim cds3/252/art audio jota monoblock SETs which everyone agreed. Timing picks up significantly and they seem to complement an organic presense CDS3 offers the best and minimised Parcifals minor flaws. This was the one of the immensely enjoyable Naim/ round earth speaker combo.

I wish we had a Naim power amp for the comparison to see how they do with all Naim electronics.

p.s. a friend who brought over Parcifal never listned to the new Naim. The first thing he said ( this was even before we put in CDS3 ) was 'wow, what are people talking about?! Naim can image! '

[This message was edited by kuma on Mon 22 March 2004 at 7:14.]

Thanks for the review. (I had heard the Nagra on the top-of-the-line Lohengrin).