shared hi-fi and AV use of speakers - how to handle?

Hi Martin

What most folks do is use the "pre-out" signals for the two front speaker channels on the back of the A/V procssor.
You run these two line level signals to the A/V input on the 202. You then program the 202 A/V input for "unity gain" (see manual). When unity gain is on, the volume control for these front channel signals becomes the one on the A/V processor. This allows you to control all channel volumes at A/V receiver when listening in surround.

When you want to listen to hifi stereo thruogh the 202 you just switch to one of the other inputs (CD for example) and the 202 takes over volume control since the A/V input is the only one which unity gain operates on.

Done like this you only need the one pair of speaker connections to your 200 using NACA5 cable

regards
GEOFF

Exactly. I do this between my Yamaha E800 processor and 52.

The Yamaha also outputs to an old Naim 140 which I use to drive the rear speakers.

Incedenty, I drive the Sub from one of the 52 PS outputs as this works better than using the Sub output on the Yamaha.

Regards

Tim

Thanks Guys,

After I posted I thought that was going to be the answer - and Geoff I was actually thinking of your system from the system pics thread and wondering what you did as you have your AV stuff to the right of your hi fi!

Problem for me is that the TV and AV kit are on one side of the room and the Hi Fi is on another - space limitations with fireplace and window positions. May have to work on a compromise here.

>>>>I guess the only option for the cable is the std two pin connectors? Any branding suggestions - the DVD- to AV is optical so don't really want to signal quality when I send the signal to the 202/200.

>>>>Also is there any way to connect the Sub into the 200 or does this just stay connected to the AV unit?

Many thanks,

Martin

Tim-

What do you use to drive the centre speaker?

Martin

I use a Chord audio interconnect (official Naim variety) from the A/V (RCA) to the Naim (Din). You can order that from Chord in a specfic length but a long one will be more expensive. I have in the past had the A/V further away from the Naim and extended the standard length Din to RCA cable using RCA adaptors to add a length of other make RCA cable. The sound seemed pretty good to me suggesting you can have quite a long "line level" cable run and still be ok on quality.

Connecting the sub to the 200 depends on what make you have. If it has a set of so called "High level" inputs you can use the speaker level signal from the 200.
I have a REL which allows this and has the necessary comprehensive Frequency settings needed to tune the sub ouput to blend with the main speakers. The way it works is to connect at the speaker terminals either on the back of the 200 or at the speakers themselves. You should be only using one pair of speaker terminals connected to the 200 (Naim does not recommend bi-wiring) so one possibility is to use the second pair to run a "summed" speaker output to the sub. With the REL's this is designed in using a 3 core cable which connects to both speaker + terminals and one - terminal. With some other makes you have to connect both sets of + and - speaker level signals out of the amp to the sub and then take the speaker "out" connections onward to the speakers themselves, after passing through the frequency filtering in the sub.

If you don't have high level inputs you need a power supply like a HiCap which can provide a line level output from a spare output socket on it's rear to get the line level audio signal out of the 202 which can then be connected to the "0.1 Channel" line level connector on the sub, normally connected to the A/V kit.

regards
GEOFF

Martin

I don't have a centre speaker right now.

I tried a few and none of them matched up with the tone and quality from my SBLs's. As such, I run the system in phantom mode. Not ideal but not as bad as shelling out the kind of money that Naim wanted for one of their centre speakers.

However, I am now waiting to test the new n-Cent, well as soon as my dealer can get his hands on one. At £500 it will be a steal if it sounds even half decent.

At that time I will either:

1. Use one of the channels on the 140 and connect the rear speakers back on the Yamaha outputs.

2. Buy the 3-channel Naim amp

3. Buy the Naim single channel amp as this is rated at the same power as my 250.

BTW, my Naim Fraim is now 10m from the TV/Sky+, DVD and Yamaha kit. It was originally 4m but after testing it all with a 12m Chord cable with no noticeable degradation in sound, I moved my room around to accommodate a Plasma. Cable came from my local Naim shop in Worcester who had it made up for me.

As for the sub, I have an MK that has line level inputs. I used to feed these from a HiCap, then a 52 PS and, in about 5 days, this will be a Supercap.

Hope all this helps.

Tim

Martin

There are only two cables I would suggest to go from your AV amp to the 202:

1. Chord Chrysalis
2. Chord Chameleon Silver Plus

Chord Chrysalis (lavender colour) can be used for longer runs reasonably well. It's about £60 plus £5 per extra metre.

If the runs are *really* long (e.g. 10m), then I'd suggest you consider Chameleon. This cable is used a great deal in miking situations in studios - in other words for low signals over long distances. It's £120 plus approximately £10 per extra metre so it's NOT cheap!

I have checked the back of my AV Receiver and there is no 'Pre Amp Out' mentioned. I only have a Video 1 Out, Video 2 Out and a Tape Out...I called the supplier who said that it had to say Pre Amp Out if it was to work. Any ideas?

Perhaps my AV Amp is such low spec - it was about £400 to handle this situation?

Secondly, even if it did send the signal, wouldn't it send the whole signal to the Naim system and not just that portion of the 5.1 that is relevant to the front speakers?

Cheers,

Martin

What you find, is that there are sets of pre-outs for just about everthing (on amps that have the feature), so my yamaha dsp-e492 (precursor of the 800) has pre-outs for each part of the signal - i.e. main left and right, surround left and right, centre and sub. I let the dsp power the rear and centre and then the left and right pre-outs which carry just the signals for left and right speakers, go to my pre amp. In addition, some surround sound amps will also have the kind of 'mixed' pre-out you're talking about that would contain everything. However, if your dsp doesn't have these pre-outs, then I don't know of a good way to achieve what you want.

There is a bad way, but it's very bad (and I only employed under duress because the person I was sharing my flat with insisted on using his home cinema stuff). From maplin you can get a speaker switching block that allows two amps to connect to one set of speakers. However, and this is a big however, it makes a big difference to sound quality and I would only recommend it if your dsp doesn't have the pre-outs and you're using it as a stopgap measure.

here is the link:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=21299&TabID=1&source=15&WorldID=&doy=24m2


regards,

Tam

Cheers Tam,

Seems like my AV Amp is a bit basic and not quite up to the task. I guess I may need to upgrade to a new/2nd hand one...

Cheers,

Martin

Yamaha DSP E800 is available 2nd hand fairly cheaply, it would seem to match your requirements. These come up regularly on E-bay and on the Pink Fish website.

HI Guys,

As far as the Pre Out goes, will there be one 'out' for each R and L channel or 1 out for both left and right speakers? The reason I ask is - do I need a 2 RCA to DIN or a 4 RCA to DIN?

Many thanks,

Martin

quote:

Originally posted by BLT:
Yamaha DSP E800 is available 2nd hand fairly cheaply, it would seem to match your requirements. These come up regularly on E-bay and on the Pink Fish website.

The only thing the E800 doesn't offer if Pro Logic II (huge improvement over the older Pro Logic).

If you only use the AV system for DD/DTS DVDs then maybe this doesn't matter but if you watch TV programmes through the AV system then I'd say PLII is almost a 'must have'.

Matt.

Yeah cheers Matt,

I have almost decided to get the Denon 2805 as it has everything, and is pretty reasonable on the price. Now I need to decide on the cable to get.

Cheers,

Martin

I have an E800 and it's great - EXCEPT for that ProLogicII caveat - and one other. NONE of the Yamahas I've seen seem to be able to route a mono signal through front L/R/Centre all at the same time, so you either have to drop into phantom 2.0 mode or have just the centre speaker.

That REALLY pees me off with older mono films like "A night to remember".

Do the Denons do 3.0 fl/fr/fc mono? My amp's getting a bit long in the tooth, and this feature would be great (along with SEPERATE Laserdisc/DVD inputs - yes, I DO use both!).

Can anybody answer:

As far as the Pre Out goes, will there be one 'out' for each R and L channel or 1 out for both left and right speakers? The reason I ask is - do I need a 2 RCA to DIN or a 4 RCA to DIN?

Many thanks,

Martin

quote:

Can anybody answer:
As far as the Pre Out goes, will there be one 'out' for each R and L channel or 1 out for both left and right speakers? The reason I ask is - do I need a 2 RCA to DIN or a 4 RCA to DIN?
Many thanks,Martin

Martin there will be an one "pre-out" socket for each channel, so to connect two channels to your power amp (a front left and a front right for example) you will need a 2 RCA plug to Din cable, wired up correctly, which you should be able to get via a HiFi dealer or the Chord cable company for example.

HI,
I have a Denon 2805 piggy backed via unity gain into my 282 - it works fine. You just plug a two phono - din cable (I have a chord Crysalis custom made 8metre length one). The auto setup on the 2805 is a breeze and it sets the left right fronts up fine.


For the price its a really good compromise over the too expensice AV2 etc setup (I'd sooner spend the dosh on the 2 channel!)

Also recommend the Naim N-cent too, depending on your main speakers of course.

andy c!