Clueless American seeks advice in visiting UK

Jez is of course describing a visit to England desingned for someone like him rather than someone like Bob -- a mistake which a lot of people in this thread seem to be making.

I think Bob needs to be a little more specific to avoid this "My region is better than your region" form of tourist advice.

Matthew

I think Bob should also reveal whether he prefers to visit the places locals enjoy, or to visit the typical tourist attractions. Also, whether gaining an appreciation of the people or gaining an appreciation of the geography is more important.

Aftere 27 posts Bob has decided to visit Germany instead

Tom

Actively enjoying it all

quote:

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Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
Jez is of course describing a visit to England desingned for someone like him rather than someone like Bob -- a mistake which a lot of people in this thread seem to be making.

Matthew

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Matthew is of course defending the usual "I live in London and it has all I need" mentality rather than excepting that it is very parochial place and the rest of the country has far more too offer.

Tom
who moved away from London 'cos he couldn't stand it any longer. (Johnson was lying)

quote:

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Originally posted by Jez Quigley:

Mile after mile after mile of dirty buildings, noisy congested roads and litter.

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Plus 320 acres of Kew Gardens.

Regards

Mike

On the Yellow Brick Road and Happy

Bob,

Feel free to PT or call me at home -- I can help you put together a 'must-do' list, and having lived equal parts in the UK and US, might be able to provide a different perspective.

cheers,

Dan

"Matthew is of course defending the usual "I live in London and it has all I need" mentality rather than excepting that it is very parochial place and the rest of the country has far more too offer."

Matthew was obviously pointing out the flaw (or at least presumption) in the various arguments made and had said nothing about the merits of London vs other parts of the country.

Tom was obviously, flushed with the excitement of his recent re-location to Scotland, projecting his notions of London dweller's motivations and views onto someone he barely knows because he would like some public validation of his decision to live up a hill

Matthew

First--Thanks to everyone! I appreciate the input.

Apologies if I didn't give a clear enough idea of what I'd like to do. I really want to see the War Museum, Buckingham Palace, Cambridge Univ., and presumably some of the other more touristy places. I also want to visit Naim and meet as many forum members as possible. I don't know if it's feasible for an American, but I'd love to do the Chunnel and visit Normandy. Perhaps the next trip...

Ideally I would be there 7-10 days, with time both in and out of London. I grew up outside NYC, and the cosmopolitan nature of London is a positive for me. And I'm glad I can use public transportation to get around--I'm used to driving in cities with horrendous traffic, but would really rather not.

I was fortunate to have visited Scotland in 1996, courtesy of Linn. Got to spend some time just wandering both Glasgow and Edinburgh, and look forward to returning at some point.

Best,

Bob

Its simple really, if you like cities then London is a must. For all that its grubby and exhausting, as an urban experience of immense variety it is without parallel in this country. I've lived here all my life and feel I know it pretty well, yet there are large chunks ive never set foot in, and I still uncover all sorts of delights in areas I thought i'd exhausted. But I'm not blind to its downsides and get out of town as often as poss.

All the other areas mentioned have their merits, and nearly anywhere will offer greater potential for relaxation, cleaner air, natural beauty and all that stuff, but dont let anyone kid you that theres a city (in the UK) that has more going on than London.

roman

Bob
Im surprised no one mentioned the theater or the symphony in London. Order your tickets in advance simply be calling the theater directly.
Your tickest will be waiting when you get there.
BTW, dont forget to look RIGHT when crossing the road
My wife and I honeymooned in London about 8 years ago. We stayed in a nice hotel called The Hampshire near Leister( spelling?) Square. Walking distance to Trafalgar Square as well as the subway.
We also stayed for about 7 days. Spending most of our time seeing London (much to see) as well as taking a day trip or two outside the city.
BTW, if anyone wants to know, your Canadian

If you want plenty to do in a cultural melting pot then London is the place.

Otherwise I'd head for Derbyshire - it's like Wales (lots of hills and sheep) only the locals are more friendly and the beer is better.

I camped in both several times last summer.


Regards,

Steve.

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on Fri 19 March 2004 at 4:49.]

Matthew is of course right. But after 18 years working in Westminster & Bermondsey I have a jaded view of London. All that aside there is a lot going on.

Go on the Wheel. Visit the National Gallery & Portrait Gallery, Tate Britain and the Wallace Collection. The newly refurbished Colesium is meant to be stunning and has always done great opera (in English), the Royal Festival Hall and the South Bank complex is worth a visit just to see how concert venues should be (even if the sound isn't great). Wander the streets and marvel at the architecture which is surprising, interesting and often hidden away. Use the public transport for longer distances but try walking. It's cheaper often quicker and you'll see more. Take the river bus from Westminster to Greenwich (again public transport, avoid the tour boats).

Enjoy the hustle and bustle and Peckham.

Tom

Actively enjoying it all

Bob,
you are continuing to enforce the steriotyping of US residents, eg. U.K.
Satuday/Sunday, Europe monday etc. With all due respect, you would be hard pressed to see all of Brighton in 7 to 10 days let alone the rest of Sussex,which is only a tiny part of the U.K. I'm aware that compared to the USA the UK is tiny, but even 10 days in London wouldn't even scratch the surface, It might even take you that long to get from Victoria station to Salisbury on public transport
Anyway don't let me throw a wet damper on the events ,but just be aware that you will not see as much as you might have thought.
best of luck,
oldie

I just though I'd point out (for those of you that haven't noticed), that Bob comes from Denver. So he already lives 'up a hill' and is surrounded by fabulous mountains, fresh clean air and scenery.

From what I remember of Denver, it's a small, clean city with an excellent bus system (with dedicated bus lanes). I don't recall their being much in the way of culture or historic buildings there though.

So London should be an excellent contrast - noisy, dirty, with an overcrowded, creaky public transport system and lots to see and do. No chance of getting 'away from it all' within a 15 minute drive of the city centre there. Oh, and decent (but expensive beers) widely available (Bob will be only be used to Coors 'cos the brewery is just down the road).

BTW, if you meet Bob, don't forget that Denver is responsible for that popular invention known as 'the Denver shoe'.

PS. just thought I mention Bob, less you were confused, that Normandy is actually in France! It's worth a visit on it's own (especially if you want to see the D-day landing sites and war graves), but it's a fair way south of where the Channel tunnel comes out and you are probably better off getting a ferry across to Cherbourg or Caen. You would also need to hire a car.

Patrick--

LOL! (About Normandy--hence the Chunnel...)

Oldie--Sorry about reinforcing stereotypes--I know I could spend a year in the UK and still only see a fraction of what is there. The reason I would try to pack as much in as possible is simply because I have limited time and funds--if I had unlimited quantities of both, I'd just move there for a while (When I win the lottery.....).

Denver is a moderately nice, but boring, city. Mountain views are terrific, the air is actually some of the dirtiest in the US, and relative to what I grew up with outside New York City, Denver is a cultural wasteland. So seeing a show, a symphony, a small jazz club, rock club, dance club, etc. is high on my list. And I'm not a beer drinker--and I'm not at all sure Coors even qualifies as "beer."

Best,

Bob

Bob,

I imagine a culturally interesting evening for Denver people being big burly white men and cookie-cutter blonde women guzzling beer, cheering for sports teams, and eating big cuts of meat. Is it so?

Also- where did you live in NY? My home prior to Seattle was Saratoga Springs.

Ludwig--

Unfortunately, you are closer than you know wrt to a culturally interesting evening for many Denverites. What is so funny to me is how virulent people can be in defending Denver as anything but a big cowtown--which is essentially what it is. Then again, there are pockets of civilization...

I grew up in northern NJ, but my grandfather taught piano in NYC and took me in quite often. My grandmother was also one of the first six Rockettes ever, so I've spent a ton of time in NYC. Still have relatives in Plattsburgh, Chazy, and Alexandria Bay.

Best,

Bob

Bob,

London is great, but nobody speaks english there anymore so bring an english-to-something-else phrasebook (Slavic languages, Russian, Polish, Spanish, Greek, Portuguese, Jamaican, Arabic, Hindi, to name a few of the most influential that you will encounter). If you can speak one or more of the abovementioned, all the better.

This might be the hardest thing to do, but sewing a Canadian flag patch on your knapsack or jacket, or a lapel pin, will give you instant welcome status.

London hotels are uber expensive and crap, small and rude. Unless you are willing to spend over 100 quid/night, keep your expectations very low.

I spend a lot of time in London, these are my observations not my opinions.

Bob,

You can SEE many of the TOURIST sites in London in a day. Consider Buckingham Palace, Houses of Parliament, Covent Garden, St Paul's Cathedral, The Monument (Fire of London), The Tower of London, Tower Bridge, The Globe Theatre. And just walking around the "back streets" from one place to the next will give you a good idea of what London is like. Include a couple of the parks like Hyde Park and St James's Park (You can include lots more SEEING in a single day).

To VISIT places (say) the War Museum, Science Museum, Natural History Museum, British Museum (half the Parthenon frieze), art galleries, Greenwich Observatory etc will need about half a day per visit.

London is best travelled by walking or by tube. Two or three-day travel cards are good value and let you jump on or off as often as you like. And the tube/suburban trains go to the outer suburbs including Richmond, Hampstead, Epping etc.

Out of London, and I would hire a car for a week. (sleep in it if you can't find a cheap B&B)

3 days (2 nights in cheap motels-but clean) would get you a visit via the Chunnel (pre-pay, but just turn up and go) to the Northern battlefields of the first World War including Ypres, Vimy Ridge (Canadian guides to the preserved underground tunnels and trenches), and the Somme. You could visit Arras, Paris and Rouen. (beautiful cathedral and Joan of Arc), or perhaps Versailles. Excellent food everywhere and cheap if you take care.

English cities that I would consider include Cambridge (Duxford air museum is nearby), York (minster and walls), Durham (cathedral and castle on rock cliff, riverwalk), Chester (walls, lost harbour), Oxford and Bath (Roman Baths). And sites to consider .Windsor castle, Warwick Castle, Riveaux Abbey, Chatsworth House, Beamish Museum, Lindisfarne, Blackpool Pleasure Beach, Avebury (stone circle) Stonehenge (stones throw from Salisbury and the army air museum is nearby), Dartmoor (settlements). A round-trip could snatch a glance at many of these in 5days in a comfortable car.

IF you wanted to visit Scotland (and it IS beautiful-even compared to the Canadian Rockies where we have a small place), then Newbury to Dunblaine takes me about 7 hours, but Durham to Edinburgh is only a couple of hours. Early morning flights by Ryan Air or Easy Jet from Stansted
can put in Glasgow/Edinburgh/Aberdeen or Inverness by 08.00hrs for only a few Pounds.

I would say that a well- planned, well-executed visit (up early, late to bed...) could include London, France and a whistle-stop tour of England.

Unfortunately you are going to get 101 biased views of what to do and where to go.

Ignore them....this is the REAL one.....

Cheers

Don

[This message was edited by Don Atkinson on Fri 19 March 2004 at 20:18.]

Bob, sorry I hijacked your thread a bit to pull the tails of the Londoners, they have to drive for hours to see any countryside (they confuse it with municipal parks) so tend not to get out much. Don's post above is full of good suggestions that I would endorse except to say that I'd maybe trim the city visits a little to give time to get out into the Scottish highlands, Yorkshire dales (my fave is Swaledale, it is so beautiful it may make you cry), and the Lake district (Cumbria).

You don't need to deny your identity either. Brits may be critical of USA foreign policy, but we like American people.

Bob,

I picked my suggestions, mainly to give you an idea of how far you might be able to travel and how much you might be able to fit in, rather than specifics of what to do. But I also "felt" that you had a slight incling towards cities, micro-culture and museums....but could be wrong by a mile.

Denver is some distance from the coast. England isn't. There are some very pretty and rugged little hamlets along the north (west) Cornish coast, and the sea has surf without the sharks....

My holiday of choice in the UK has always been mountain walking in the Scottish Highlands. And the lochs are very pretty as well.

Jez has also listed places with nice scenary and quiet pubs....all beautiful for walking (or driving). Note, you drive along motorways at 70/80mph (outside the ruch hours) ORRRR take little country roads over the Durham/Yorkshire/Derbyshire moors to get from (say) York to Durham to Chester.

Of course Cornwall has Tintagel (King Arthur, Merlin etc) and Nottingham has Sherwood Forest and Robin Hood's Oak Tree.

And many Canadians and Americans have some sort of historic family link to some part of the UK which they would like to visit.

Petrol costs about 80 pence a litre. (4.5 per UK gallon) and the average four-soor saloon like a Ford Mondeo gets about 30 miles to the UK gallon. Trains are expensive during the peak, but off-peak can be reasonable (hardly ever cheap)

Cheers

Don

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Edwards:
Finally--any other thoughts welcome--esp. if I've missed anything obvious.

Thanks in advance!

Bob

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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the relative proximity of Stonehenge to Salisbury... or was that just too obvious?

Personally I'd spend an hour at Stonehenge and drive 45 minutes north to Avebury which is much more interesting.

"Murphy was an optimist"

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Edwards:
Denver is a moderately nice, but boring, city. Mountain views are terrific, the air is actually some of the dirtiest in the US

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The only decent views you will get of London will be from the top of Hampstead Heath, Harrow-on-the-hill, or the London Eye.

Denver air, dirty??? HARHAR, better prepare yourself for the first time you sneeze after you've experienced The Tube...



"Murphy was an optimist"

quote:

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The only decent views you will get of London will be from the top of Hampstead Heath, Harrow-on-the-hill, or the London Eye.

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Or if you hire a helicopter, you can fly the heli-route down the Thames!

I've flown down the Thames above tower bridge and the dome, on a beautiful summer's evening, with Concorde just above on final approach to Heathrow (sadly this experience no longer available).

Beware if you hire a car and drive to France, the insurance and hire terms may well not cover you.

Don's list

"You can SEE many of the TOURIST sites in London in a day. Consider Buckingham Palace, Houses of Parliament, Covent Garden, St Paul's Cathedral, The Monument (Fire of London), The Tower of London, Tower Bridge, The Globe Theatre. And just walking around the "back streets" from one place to the next will give you a good idea of what London is like. Include a couple of the parks like Hyde Park and St James's Park (You can include lots more SEEING in a single day).

To VISIT places (say) the War Museum, Science Museum, Natural History Museum, British Museum (half the Parthenon frieze), art galleries, Greenwich Observatory etc will need about half a day per visit.

London is best travelled by walking or by tube. Two or three-day travel cards are good value and let you jump on or off as often as you like. And the tube/suburban trains go to the outer suburbs including Richmond, Hampstead, Epping etc."

I would add;

Westminster Abbey
The British Library, near Euston Station; for its collection of old literary works.
National Gallery, a must for Art Lovers.

Of Don's Choices, the British Museum is one you definitely should go to. One of the best museums in Europe.