Might be going for Naim Nait 5i but....

Posted by: MartinB on 22 April 2004

I want a good integrated amp and I really don't like seperates that much..
For me it seems like the Nait 5i is a better choice soundwise but not functional wise than the Nait 5. It seems like the Nait 5i is better because Naim themselves claims it's the best integrated amp from naim yet, it has more power and a shorter signalpath throughout the amp because of the passive preamp which also makes the amp cheaper..
So if you don't need a lot of functions which you don't get with the Nait 5i the 5i seems like a good choice. Because you pay for sound and amplification and not for functions and upgradeability...

I really would like to try Naim, but because I'm a integrated amp guy I will have to go for the Nait 5i or the Nait 5. But I don't think the Nait 5 has enough power so it has to be the 5i.
The 5i is a pretty cheap amp but how does it compare to more expensive integrated amps? It's a pitty doesn't have a more high-end integrated amp...Currently I have a Rotel RA-1070 and could buying a 5i be a downgrade?

My room is about 8-10 sq.m. big and I don't need all the power from the rotel. My dvd-player is a Philips 963SA with new powercord and Aurios 1.1 feets. It performs VERY VERY good for the money.
Speakers are Elac CL310 Jubilee Edition which is a pair of special edition speakers with only 250 pairs in the world. The changes from the ordinary CL310 Jet are better components on the inside, even better box, WBT speaker terminals and there might be more too...I'll post some pics of it..

So finally..What are your opinions? is nait 5i only a entrylevel amp or can more serious musiclovers have it too and be satisfied?
Can you tweak(better powercord, new feets, etc) it to sound better?
Would really appreciate your opinions!

Thanks!

Posted on: 22 April 2004 by Clay Bingham

Martin

I have had quite a few high end( albeit round earth) preamps and amps over the years from Leveinson, Audio Research, Krell, Quad , and Berning. I purchased my Nait 5i as a relatively inexpensive way to find out what Naim amplification is all about. I think it's great. Can't recommend it enough. For most folks it would be all they would ever need.

Clay

Posted on: 22 April 2004 by MartinB

ok..that sounds promising!

What do you use your Nait 5i with?

Posted on: 23 April 2004 by koe!k

I heard different integrated amps in the last years. After 3 years with a Accuphase E-211 I discovered the world of valves. I bought a DIY amp kit ul40-s2 from Vanderveen (www.amplimo.nl). I built it and enjoy the music.
Then I get a Naim CD5. It’s also a great music machine. The good experiences with the CD5 enticed me to buy a Nait5i (pure greed).
But I had trouble with the nait (Nait 5i Weaknesses) and the sound of my valve amp is better than the 5i. Compared to my Vanderveen, the nait has a lack of bass and the rest is well but typical transistor sound.
Hear it before you buy it!

(Equipment: naim cd5, Vanderveen UL40-S2, Dynaudio Contour 1.3SE)

Kirk

Posted on: 23 April 2004 by Clay Bingham

Martin

One of the great things about audio is there are plenty of choices out there to match almost anyone's preferences. By all means listen for yourself, in your own listening room if possible. Just remember, that doing an A-B comparison between equipment can be helpful but just as easily can be problematic. In relatively short comparisons you may be attracted to one aspect or another of sound that over time you might not find as attractive. And in comparing sound you can often can lose sight of the important musical connection. The latter takes time to feel and sort out.

All I can say to you is that for me, the Nait 5i does a nice job of connecting me to all types of music. I does not put me to sleep as some equipment has. It makes me look forward to listening and trying new music.

System is CD-5, Hicap II, Nait 5i, NACA 5( important!), through Spendor SP 1/2's. Just purchased a Stageline K and Flatcap II which will be used with a Sota Star Sapphire, SME V, Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum.

Clay

Posted on: 23 April 2004 by MartinB

Thanks for your answers!

Clay Bingham: I see that you have spent a lot more on sources than amplification. That may be a good choice! Can you compare the Nait 5i to previous amps you have had??

Posted on: 23 April 2004 by Clay Bingham

Martin

I hesitate to reply to this question Martin because I'll probably lose all credibility with you and others. But what the heck! In my system at one time or another I've had Audio Research sp-6, sp-8, sp-10(stunning!), LS-15, LS-16, Amps D-70, D-115, VT-100 Mk.II, Levison 23.5, Bearning EA-230, Quad II/40, Quad Preamp, Krell KSA-50 Mk II. Speaker, Spendor BC-1, Quad-63, Quad 989. I've all of these at one time or another and have had many more on test.

I think you will agree that that is a pretty good list of equipment. I'm not going to insult your intelligence by telling you that the NAIT 5i whips this group in every area. What I will say is it is very easy to muck up the sound of even the nicest equipment through poor system matching, poor room matching( large speakers, small room), cable and interconnect mismatching et. al. I would also add that depth, width, soundstaging blah blah blah is not what drives musical communication.

What I like about Naim beyond, what is in my opinion it's excellent natural non-mechanical sound, is it's holistic approach to system configuration. Buy the boxes at whatever the level, use the wire( no quackery or rip-offs here!), etc. and it's hard to mess up. Just enjoy the music.

I have my 5i. I would not go back to what I have had in the past. The system I have sounds too good. If I get crazy again, I 'll buy more Naim.

Hope this helps and I wish you good luck in your search.

Clay

Posted on: 23 April 2004 by MartinB

Thanks a lot for your answer!

I totally agree with you! Many would probably look strange at me because I just have a Philips 963SA.
But I have never heard a better sub 1000 USD cd-player...and it also plys SACD and DVD...and the improvements with a new powercord and Aurios 1.1 feets improved the sound a level further.
I agree with you that system matchning and the room etc. is much more important than an amp or source.
By the way, which interconnect do you use?

Martin

Posted on: 23 April 2004 by Clay Bingham

Martin

With what is now an all Naim system, I use their interconnects. In the past I have used Silversmith and MIT successfully in systems with different voicing from Naim. When I just had my CD-5 running into my Audio Research and later Quad equipment, I used Chord Cobra 2 from the CD-5 and it did just fine. I have heard good things about DMN Reson and Chord and you may have other reasonbly priced alternatives in Europe of which I am unaware.

By the way I'm not familiar with the components forming most of your system, but I do know of and have heard the Rotel 1070. Nicely designed and made. A very good sounding unit and a steal at the price at least in the US. I think the 5i will be an enjoyable next step up for you and a great introduction to Naim.

Enjoy
Cla

Posted on: 23 April 2004 by MartinB

The strange thing is that in Sweden the Nait 5i costs about 800 USD less than the RA-1070...

So pricewise the Nait 5i wouldn't be considered an upgrade over RA-1070 here in Sweden.

Right now I use Van Den Hul the first the ultimate and Nordost Red Dawn interconnects. If I buy the Nait 5i I will probably go with the Naca5 speaker cable but will experiment more with interconnects...
When you use the naca5 which is very cheap there's room for more expensive interconnects and power cables.

Martin

Posted on: 23 April 2004 by o.j.

quote:
Originally posted by MartinB:
The strange thing is that in Sweden the Nait 5i costs about 800 USD less than the RA-1070...
So pricewise the Nait 5i wouldn't be considered an upgrade over RA-1070 here in Sweden.

Right now I use Van Den Hul the first the ultimate and Nordost Red Dawn interconnects. If I buy the Nait 5i I will probably go with the Naca5 speaker cable but will experiment more with interconnects...
When you use the naca5 which is very cheap there's room for more expensive interconnects and power cables.

Martin

Hy Martin!not nescessary to try other interconnects .(except naims )
I know a lot of interconnects and with VdH first an flatline nordost you have imo two of
the absolut top products available on the market.

O.J.

Posted on: 24 April 2004 by MartinB

Yeah I know that I have good interconnects and I will try them before I try something else but it's all about matching...

Posted on: 24 April 2004 by MartinB

PR: But I want an integrated amp...it would be cool if Naim would release a high-end integrated amp..
But it seems like Nait 5i can compete with more high end integrated amps so why would they?

Posted on: 24 April 2004 by billgpdx

quote:
Originally posted by PR:
If you're in the market for buying new, then the 5i is an excellent choice if partnered with the right speakers, ie Totems, Neats etc.

Based on those that you listened to, which pair of speakers did you find to be the best to partner the 5i with?

Thanks,
Bill

Posted on: 24 April 2004 by MartinB

I like integrateds more. Just one interconnect and and one power cable. And I haven't heard good things about the older Naim models...

Posted on: 24 April 2004 by MartinB

PR: I think I want to buy something new..and I want an integrated amp as I said. But thank you very much for your advice.
Regarding the Totem forest I think they need a lot of power to really shine...

By the way. Have anyone read the Hifi+ review on Nait 5i? Or know where I can find it on the internet?

Posted on: 24 April 2004 by vampyriaerotica

Can anyone comment about the "sonic" differences between CD5 and CD5i? I'm quiet tempted to get the much regarded CD5i but thought not to close the upgrade path's door in the near future when the bug strikes.
Shall I just pick up the CD5? I saw few in the used market for the price of CD5i which is what I can afford at the moment. Any advice would be appreciated!

Posted on: 24 April 2004 by Stoney

MartinB

I didn't get the issue of HiFi+ with the NAIT5i review in it. I do have a review from What HIFI. They gave it 5 Stars.

For - Relentlessly musical with real verve; attractive package; solid build.

Against - Cut-throut competition; awkward remote.

Verdict - A real contender, boosted by Naim's move to make its equipment compatible with a wider range of stereo partners.

(If you want to email I will scan it in and send the review to you(it's not very big), but it may take me a few days as the scanner is temperamental - carl.stone1@ntlworld.com)

Anyway, I went to the shop, heard it (After hearing the Arcam, Cyrus, Quad and Roksan) and went back to buy it the next day. With the CD5i Its fantastic!

Posted on: 25 April 2004 by Ofer

quote:
Originally posted by Stoney:
For - Relentlessly musical with real verve;

That's a shame.

Presonally I like amps that are very musical rather the relentlessly musical, which could be a bit much. I also prefer plastic verve to real one. It may not be as Real, but it lasts longer and easier to clean...

Posted on: 25 April 2004 by MartinB

Stoney: Thanks for your offer but you don't have to scan the review for me. I don't trust What Hifi very much. Every new product they test is the best in the world..

I trust you more. Which amps from the brands you named did you compare it to in the shop?

Posted on: 25 April 2004 by Tuan

quote:
Originally posted by MartinB:
The strange thing is that in Sweden the Nait 5i costs about 800 USD less than the RA-1070...
So pricewise the Nait 5i wouldn't be considered an upgrade over RA-1070 here in Sweden.

Right now I use Van Den Hul the first the ultimate and Nordost Red Dawn interconnects. If I buy the Nait 5i I will probably go with the Naca5 speaker cable but will experiment more with interconnects...
When you use the naca5 which is very cheap there's room for more expensive interconnects and power cables.

Martin

upgrading is considered when the sound quality improves not because you spend more money. The belief of "more money = better sound" is usually true only if upgrading from the same brand. The Nait 5i would be a better amp with a dual transformer design (a la Bryston B60). The increment cost will not be significant...

Posted on: 25 April 2004 by MartinB

I know this Tuan. But more expensive components are often looked upon as upgrades over cheaper ones..but that doesn't mean they sound better which I didn't say.

Posted on: 29 April 2004 by kevj

Martin,

I recently listened to Rotel RA1062/RCD1072, Cyrus 8/CD8 and Nait 5i/CD5i at the same audition (with Dynaudio audience 62 spekers). I bought the Nait (my previous amp, a Rotel RA930AX was broken) and am now waiting for the CD5i, which is on order.

I know that the 1070 is a better amp than the 1062 that I listened to, but I found the Naims to be so much more musically involving that the decision was, for me, a very straightforward one.

I can only say that, having lived with my Nait for about a month now, I love it, particularly the sense of excitement it seems to bring to everything it touches, from complex classical music to pop and easy listening.

(Looking forward to the arrival of my CD and to listening to the Arivas when they're released)

Kev (Naim newcomer)

Posted on: 29 April 2004 by MartinB

kevj: Sounds interesting! The RA-1070 is a more expensive and powerful amp and have more possibilities than RA-1062 but I am not sure it sounds better than RA-1062. The RA-1070 came about 2-3 years ago and the RA-1062 is totally new and has gotten very good reviews from the hifi press.

My candidates for new amps are:
Nait 5i
Cyrus 8 + maybe PSXR in the future
Pathos Classic One
Unison Research Unico
Primare A30.1

The Nait 5i seems to offer very much for the price. If you don't need upgrade possibilities, a lot of input and outputs and stuff the Nait 5i probably is a good choice if you want an integrated amp at any price and like the Naim sound. The Nait 5i is like a power amp with some inputs and a volume control. I like that simplicity!

Posted on: 29 April 2004 by Stoney

MartinB - When I tried the NAIT5i/cd5i combo, it was imediately obviously that I was hearing something in a different league to the alternatives I had heard (except perhaps for the Quad 99).

I spent several days trying to get a good sound from the Arcam A80 (and A90) with the CD82. I had a grand in an account at a hifi shop, so had to chose pretty quickly, After lots of messing around I got a sound which was OK, but it was just dull with any rock tracks - too laid back.

This led me to try the Cyrus kit (7 series) this was just too harsh, no matter what speakers I used.

Then the Quad 99 - this sounded nice, very transparent, but was very expensive.

Then, by chance, I tried the NAIM, with the missus and father-in-law (sort of) in tow, instantly we all thought it was the best thing we had heard.

So I bought it, and have absolutely no regrets - it makes any music sound excellent!

Sorry my response isn't very technical, I'm no stereophile. I think this setup will keep me happy for a long while.

Posted on: 29 April 2004 by kevj

Martin,

Thanks for your comments - I can only say that I thought the Nait 5i/CD5i were in a different league to the Rotels or the Cyrus's, over all types of music (including Tommy Körberg).

Also - seeing your interest in HiFi+ articles, the impression I was left with after reading HiFi+ and HiFi Choice was that they considered the Nait to be the star performer between the Nait and NACD 5is, but in the end it's only your ears which can tell you what it is you like...

Kev (Naim newcomer)