DIY Naim interconnects

I have used 5% and 10% silver solder for hi-fi, but prefer the Wonder solder (only available from Russ Andrews I'm afraid). The silver solders can be found ready fluxed, but as you suggest, they need too much heat.

I use 5% silver solder for silver cable, but I now prefer copper anyway.

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Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of the so-called "silver soldering" for cables?

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It's basically normal electronics-grade solder with a silver content. The claimed advantage being that silver is a far better conductor.

For standard, sensibly priced options, you can buy eutectic solder for surface mount rework that contains a small proportion of silver.

It's primary advantage is it's eutectic properties, in that it has a lower melting point than standard tin / lead and the transition between the liquid and solid states is sharp. The silver content also helps prevent leaching from the endcaps of SMD components.

Until now the rest has been more specialist (read: audio) grade stuff, with occasionally silly price tags to match in many cases.

This has changed now, with the advent of lead-free solders (in preparation for the WEEE / RoHS legislation), which are primarily tin / silver (+ copper, in some) which have high silver percentages for sensible cost.

The difficulty is not all of these are so compatible with the substrates being soldered (if they have a tin / lead base) and they have a considerably higher melting point. They also look horrible when compared to those shiny joints one gets from conventional solders.

They can work well though with suitable materials.

Andy.

I have a CDX and have just replaced the din to phono Nordost Blue Heaven £170 interconnect with a doctored Naim interconnect.Best thing I've done.Naim is much better, if anything the nordost has a deeper bass but the Naim is far more 'musical'

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Originally posted by hicapman:
I have a CDX and have just replaced the din to phono Nordost Blue Heaven £170 interconnect with a doctored Naim interconnect.Best thing I've done.Naim is much better, if anything the nordost has a deeper bass but the Naim is far more 'musical'

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Hy there!
Just a theory of mine:It seems to be a part of
Naims cables that they haye always a small mass contact surface (Din Plugs)
on the other hand there is the possibility
that it would be better to connect caple and plug without any solder (mechanically)because
every heating of cable and plug and solder can change the consistence and synergy of those three things together. Also Soldier is a new factor in this game)And logical:normally all your components are plugged mechanical together
(Bananas to amps and speakers,din or cinch between electronicS)
So why not buy screwed cinch connectors (i think there are WBT but maybe there are also others),and connect it to a one side cut naim cable.My suggest bases on the fact that i do not know any screwable din pug,and i think naim cables are soundwise quite ok (hearing your opinions in this thread)
O.J.

Hi OJ,
I think i understand what you're saying and not soldering to avoid changing characteristics would be idea but the actual naim cable is very fine and soldering helps keep a strong connection.But as you say I do not know of a non solder type rca.
The other bonus I have is that now I am selling the nordost for money to spend elsewhere

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Originally posted by hicapman:
Hi OJ,
I think i understand what you're saying and not soldering to avoid changing characteristics would be idea but the actual naim cable is very fine and soldering helps keep a strong connection.But as you say I do not know of a non solder type rca.
The other bonus I have is that now I am selling the nordost for money to spend elsewhere

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Hy Hicapman!
I thought that there is no naim din to rca cable available thts why i suggested to cut a naim din/din cable. screwing rcaplugs you find
on this page: www.wbtusa.com and believe me:the screws build avery strong connect.
the idea for those who want to solder:eichmann plugs(also an plug that follows small surface mass idea.)
Both plugs are not really cheap,but compared
to other upgrades its okay to give a try.
My favoured rca plug (until now)is Neutrik.
sounds as good as alot more expensive plugs
and has this perfect system that you always have mass and phase contact while plugging
together a system.No possibility to damnage your speakers by mass pops while plugging and therefore
used in many professional soundstudios and hifi
shops (a typical intelligent swiss product)
O.J.

I have had previous experience with Neutrik plugs (Nordost Blue Heaven and Chord co. solid) and i agree they are very good, I have also heard bullett plugs are good for sound (low contact area)but not physically strong.Do you think there would be a large degradation in sound quality by adding rca's to the Naim cable as I have no way of comparing?(naim cd player non Naim amp)

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Originally posted by hicapman:
I have had previous experience with Neutrik plugs (Nordost Blue Heaven and Chord co. solid) and i agree they are very good, I have also heard bullett plugs are good for sound (low contact area)but not physically strong.Do you think there would be a large degradation in sound quality by adding rca's to the Naim cable as I have no way of comparing?(naim cd player non Naim amp)

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Hicapman!
not sure if iunderstand you right, but if you
want to use naim cable and no naim amp its
your only possibility!
O.J.

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Originally posted by o.j.:

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Originally posted by hicapman:
I have had previous experience with Neutrik plugs (Nordost Blue Heaven and Chord co. solid) and i agree they are very good, I have also heard bullett plugs are good for sound (low contact area)but not physically strong.Do you think there would be a large degradation in sound quality by adding rca's to the Naim cable as I have no way of comparing?(naim cd player non Naim amp)

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Hicapman!
not sure if iunderstand you right, but if you
want to use naim cable and no naim amp its
your only possibility!
O.J.

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or is your Question which trademark of plugs you should try?

Thanks for the info on silver solder chaps. The lack of shine reminds me of the similar change in plumbing solders. Quite a few years ago now.

Nime

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

Hi OJ,
I have taken a Naim violet interconnect and removed source end din and fitted a pair of phono's. Just wondered if the sound quality would have been reduced.But obviously can't compare to original din to din due to my amp.Or to put it another way do Din's sound better than good Phono's?

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Originally posted by o.j.:
[.No possibility to damnage your speakers by mass pops while plugging and therefore
used in many professional soundstudios and hifi
shops (a typical intelligent swiss product)
O.J.

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A word of warning; I've done this hundreds of times without a problem, then one day breaking the signal (or more correctly ground) connection
while the amps were running put the power amp into an unstable oscillation. The amp went up in smoke, literaly. I now follow the rules and switch everything off before disconnecting leads.

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Originally posted by hicapman:
Hi OJ,
I have taken a Naim violet interconnect and removed source end din and fitted a pair of phono's. Just wondered if the sound quality would have been reduced.But obviously can't compare to original din to din due to my amp.Or to put it another way do Din's sound better than good Phono's?

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Hy hycapman!
In reality you can only discuss Naim complete
electronic system sound against other equipment
sound,because only naim uses the din way.
(how to find out din sound of other components
if they have no din socket?)so the only thing
you can compare is din sockets on your cdx versus phono sockets (if cdx has one).You wrote
source end?! CDX?
Generally Din contact have smaller contacts
than cinch Plugs,but technicians who build amps
and source go most(except naim) the cinch way.
And i suppose a lot of them have thought about
din and the possibility of better sound.Specially those who build ultraexpensive
electronics,and i m sure they would try everything to get abetter sound.
O.J.

Thanks for your reply OJ food for thought,have you ever tried contact cleaners? do you think they are worth the money?,I just polish mains pins and clean other contacts with isopropyl alcahol,just a matter of interest what is your system? I have CDX, Icon audio integrated valve amp,Quad FM2 tuner,Audio Note AZ2 speakers.

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Originally posted by hicapman:
Thanks for your reply OJ food for thought,have you ever tried contact cleaners? do you think they are worth the money?,I just polish mains pins and clean other contacts with isopropyl alcahol,just a matter of interest what is your system? I have CDX, Icon audio integrated valve amp,Quad FM2 tuner,Audio Note AZ2 speakers.

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Hycapman!Ive tried antistaticspray ithink it was from Densen (but i am not sure )this had good effect on sound,but i think you have to use it often (kind of gas that will move sooner or later to air.)Other thing i tried was something that
filled up the micro unsmooth surface of the plugs (as the manufacterer said)and made therefore a better contact between plug and socket).
Also clean up my system sometimes ,and myself
often with alcohol.

At the moment i have nait3 with kan3 on kan
stands with cambridge cd6 and rega p3 with
goldring elite1.Diy phonostage (technical similar to naim)

In the past i had a lot of expensive equipment
from all earthes but i tried always to judge
by hearing and in my 22square meter listening
room my system sounds perfect to me.I will try
to refine the sound with upgrades (maybe Planar9), but imo
i do not expect a total revolution of sound,
because i think i am as near as you can get with any hifi on the ideal of perfect one to one musicreproduction.
(indicator is for me not to hear special quality in bass or treble or soundspace.My indicator is that i am not missing anything.(also not the prat)
If somebody says about his sytem he has superbass, i translate ,to less treble.
prefered Music:quality music all kinds. aida to zeppelin.
Saw a picture of your gear:nice tuner.
O.J.

thanks for the compliment on the tuner ,it's my favorite bit of kit(i know,I know it should be the CDX)but IMO it was such a good buy(£90) and a great sound,not heard a tuner better,yet!(not heard a Nat 01 yet)I used to have a Planar 3 and added a lot of modifications, it can be improved so much.Before I sold it,it had an Ortofon MC25fl cartridge,Linn valhalla power supply,motor thrust bearing,Manticore bearing assembly.It sounded amazing.
Buying with your ears is obviously the best way I have made a couple of mistakes in my hifi life as i only buy second hand now as I have got to a stage where I could not afford new.(£2600 for a CDX2! worth the money but too much for me)

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Originally posted by hicapman:
thanks for the compliment on the tuner ,it's my favorite bit of kit(i know,I know it should be the CDX)but IMO it was such a good buy(£90) and a great sound,not heard a tuner better,yet!(not heard a Nat 01 yet)I used to have a Planar 3 and added a lot of modifications, it can be improved so much.Before I sold it,it had an Ortofon MC25fl cartridge,Linn valhalla power supply,motor thrust bearing,Manticore bearing assembly.It sounded amazing.
Buying with your ears is obviously the best way I have made a couple of mistakes in my hifi life as i only buy second hand now as I have got to a stage where I could not afford new.(£2600 for a CDX2! worth the money but too much for me)

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Hicapman!what is now your Turntable or which one you would like?
Buying second hand is quite ok because you
will not loose that big amount of money if you sell components later on. And second hand
market is a good price and quality indicator,
because this market is more ruled by listeners
and music lovers than by marketingstrategies
of manufacturers.
O.J.

QUOTE]Hicapman!what is now your Turntable or which one you would like?
Buying second hand is quite ok because you
will not loose that big amount of money if you sell components later on. And second hand
market is a good price and quality indicator,
because this market is more ruled by listeners
and music lovers than by marketingstrategies
of manufacturers.
O.J.[/QUOTE]



I no longer have a TT and I sold all my vinyl on ebay (yes I regretted it)to fund a Naim 3.5 cd player(evil stuff this Naim )
I recently had the chance to try a friends Linn axis in my system thought it was awful ,thought my old Rega was much better.
If I was to go for one now it would have to be something like an LP12/gyrodec or the Audio note tt1 or a Rega 3.
Heard the Audio note in a store playing on the floor!! next to a pair of massive Tannoys and it sounded great.
CD and FM is for me now,I am really into radio at the moment.
You are right about the second hand market a few things I have bought,used and sold on for a profit!

a bit off topic, but I have always found "Kontakt"to be a fabulous contact cleaner, and certainly better than Naim's advice to plug/unplug alone. Treating the Naim speaker plugs and sockets with this makes a fantastic improvement. And Just look at all that black oxide on the cotton bud; Naim can't persuade me that it isn't a good idea to get rid of that.

Adaptor

For those using non-Naim source, can consider the Cardas DIN adaptor specially made for "partial" Naim user.
But I'm not sure what are the options for the DIn connectors (5PIN 240; 5PIN 180; 4PIN).

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a bit off topic, but I have always found "Kontakt"to be a fabulous contact cleaner, and certainly better than Naim's advice to plug/unplug alone. Treating the Naim speaker plugs and sockets with this makes a fantastic improvement. And Just look at all that black oxide on the cotton bud; Naim can't persuade me that it isn't a good idea to get rid of that.

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I couldn't agree more.

Andy.

As one who has never tried Kontak.......are the effects of using it audibly beneficial?

How often is its use required?


Laurie S

I would also like to hear about the audible benefits with Kontak,as alcahol seems to clean contacts fine but audibly i cannot tell the difference.

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Originally posted by hicapman:
I would also like to hear about the audible benefits with Kontak,as alcahol seems to clean contacts fine but audibly i cannot tell the difference.

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Yesterday i was in a pub
and i noticed that alcohol cleared the contact
to abeautiful girl .......just ajoke,imo
the alcohol or contact spray makes a less compressed sound and sometimes clearer deep bass,but you have to clean up your system often
because the both go fast to air (do not know how to say it in english) and i am a too lazy
guy to clean up my system often.
O.J.

I have no real knowledge of the chemistry involved, but Kontakt seems to be a far better solvent of the inorganic oxides produced on the surface of metal contacts. Alcohols are good solvents of organic contaminants like finger-grease and air-borne grot, but there is no reason why they would be any better than water at removing the metal oxides or salts on the contacts.

In terms of sound, everything cleans up, the infamous "veil" seems to disappear. Lasts about a pico-second before the contacts start to oxidise again, but about 6 months before I notice enough to clean them again.