Impress Me With Your Knowledge of Cars
Posted by: matthewr on 14 April 2004
A good friend of mine needs to buy a car and asked me for advice. I'm not sure why he has failed to notice in the 15 years he's known me that I know nothing about cars but I do know that lots of you lot know about plenty about cars.
First thing you should know about my mate is that he is, shall we say, careful with his money. His current car is a 15 year old Nissan Bluebird that has done about 300k miles AFAICT. Given this and his lack of knowledge about cars, his main criteria is reliability. He is likely to keep it for years and garage bills send his blood pressure through the roof.
His main car usage is in and around London but with reasonably regular motorway trips as well. He has no kids. He wouldn't want anything too small nor too big.
He also seems to want a "powerful engine good for tearing up and down the motorway but also good for nipping about town" although as his driving frankly terrifies me I'm not so sure this is such a good idea.
Budget-wise he seems to want to spend about £10k tops. He would need some convincing to spend much more.
His only other criteria "something reasonably classy but not too flash" and has mentioned a fondness for Audi and Alfa Romeo and BMW (I'm not sure if this is realistic at <£10k).
Finally, if one knows nothing about cars and admits to being "frankly terrified at the prospect of buying one" what's the best way to go about it?
Thanks in advance,
Matthew
First thing you should know about my mate is that he is, shall we say, careful with his money. His current car is a 15 year old Nissan Bluebird that has done about 300k miles AFAICT. Given this and his lack of knowledge about cars, his main criteria is reliability. He is likely to keep it for years and garage bills send his blood pressure through the roof.
His main car usage is in and around London but with reasonably regular motorway trips as well. He has no kids. He wouldn't want anything too small nor too big.
He also seems to want a "powerful engine good for tearing up and down the motorway but also good for nipping about town" although as his driving frankly terrifies me I'm not so sure this is such a good idea.
Budget-wise he seems to want to spend about £10k tops. He would need some convincing to spend much more.
His only other criteria "something reasonably classy but not too flash" and has mentioned a fondness for Audi and Alfa Romeo and BMW (I'm not sure if this is realistic at <£10k).
Finally, if one knows nothing about cars and admits to being "frankly terrified at the prospect of buying one" what's the best way to go about it?
Thanks in advance,
Matthew
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by Rockingdoc
I advise him to get a newer Nissan and forget about class. To have a classy car you need to have mechanical skills or not mind spending money.
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by Mick P
Matthew
If your friend (sure it is not you) is nervous about buying a car, then buying new without any form of part exchange is a reasonable option.
Tell him to go to his Honda dealer and buy a Civic. If he haggle, he will do it for £10k.
The Honda is reliable, holds its value and is cheap to run.
It is also remarkably quiet and rattle free.
If he wants class, tell him to buy a personalised plate.
Regards
Mick
If your friend (sure it is not you) is nervous about buying a car, then buying new without any form of part exchange is a reasonable option.
Tell him to go to his Honda dealer and buy a Civic. If he haggle, he will do it for £10k.
The Honda is reliable, holds its value and is cheap to run.
It is also remarkably quiet and rattle free.
If he wants class, tell him to buy a personalised plate.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by NaimThatTune
Patrick,
Love the Lamborghini idea!! I'm saving for mine right now (only another 40 grand to go)...
To be serious for a minute, advise to go for another Nissan is good, also a mid sized Honda would be very reliable and I recall the Mitsubishi Galant regularly comes top by a long margin in various fleet car reliability surveys/reviews.
All of these can be had as ex-fleet 3 year old 50-60k milers for quite a bit less than 10k (I'd have thought). A mate of mine bought a *lovely* Audi A4 estate for 10,500 a short while ago, if he wants something a little more upmarket.
The thing to do is have a good long browse through the AutoTrader website to get a feel for the market.
Cheers!
Rich.
Love the Lamborghini idea!! I'm saving for mine right now (only another 40 grand to go)...
To be serious for a minute, advise to go for another Nissan is good, also a mid sized Honda would be very reliable and I recall the Mitsubishi Galant regularly comes top by a long margin in various fleet car reliability surveys/reviews.
All of these can be had as ex-fleet 3 year old 50-60k milers for quite a bit less than 10k (I'd have thought). A mate of mine bought a *lovely* Audi A4 estate for 10,500 a short while ago, if he wants something a little more upmarket.
The thing to do is have a good long browse through the AutoTrader website to get a feel for the market.
Cheers!
Rich.
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by Arun Mehan
Mr. Robinson, I am shocked. Just a few weeks ago we were led to believe that you knew everything ... about everything! Finally accepted the truth have we???
Well not being too informed about cars in your neck of the woods (see how easy it is to be modest???), I still think you can't go wrong with an import, especially Japanese. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Mazda are great buys. Mitsubishi are fairly close in terms of quality and reliability. Honda Civic, Nissan Sentra, Toyota Corolla, Mazda 323/626 are great 2/4 door general-use cars. Toyota Celica, Mazda RX-7, Honda Accord might be more sporty. It will be much harder to find a used German vehicle at that price point. Go to a few dealerships and have a look around. Being patient is the key, you never know when the perfect car might be sitting at the local dealers! At least with the dealer, you should be able to get some sort of warranty. Check trade mags etc. too.
Well not being too informed about cars in your neck of the woods (see how easy it is to be modest???), I still think you can't go wrong with an import, especially Japanese. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Mazda are great buys. Mitsubishi are fairly close in terms of quality and reliability. Honda Civic, Nissan Sentra, Toyota Corolla, Mazda 323/626 are great 2/4 door general-use cars. Toyota Celica, Mazda RX-7, Honda Accord might be more sporty. It will be much harder to find a used German vehicle at that price point. Go to a few dealerships and have a look around. Being patient is the key, you never know when the perfect car might be sitting at the local dealers! At least with the dealer, you should be able to get some sort of warranty. Check trade mags etc. too.
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by ErikL
Honda
Hondas are reliable, cheap to own, and easy on fuel. Their V-TEC (variable timing) motors allow economical cruising, or a big rush at higher RPMs. The interior space and flexibility of Hondas are typically very impressive as well.
I'm a complete tight-wad when it comes to cars. I've had three Hondas and they've all served me flawlessly. For your friend's purposes, the small Jazz or bigger (but still small) Civic might do the trick.
Mick will agree with me and we all know that Mick's never wrong.
Hondas are reliable, cheap to own, and easy on fuel. Their V-TEC (variable timing) motors allow economical cruising, or a big rush at higher RPMs. The interior space and flexibility of Hondas are typically very impressive as well.
I'm a complete tight-wad when it comes to cars. I've had three Hondas and they've all served me flawlessly. For your friend's purposes, the small Jazz or bigger (but still small) Civic might do the trick.
Mick will agree with me and we all know that Mick's never wrong.
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by ErikL
Ha! You see- Mick already agrees!
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by JeremyD
Another vote for Honda - or Toyota.
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by Jez Quigley
Not flash of course but the Ford Focus is about as reliable as it gets.
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by Harvey
Audi A4 diesel 1.9tdi saloon or estate. Goes like shit off a shovel, easy average 50mpg and for not much money, pretty darned classy. Have heard only very good things about these people, all ex-fleet, full service history, AA report etc. http://www.audidiesels.com/ or VW passat diesel. I think if you want personalised plates, they'll also throw in some concrete eagles for your gateposts and th number of an Artex artisan
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by seagull
I had a Civic (old shape) for a company car. Comfortable, reliable, dull as ditch water to look at (it was the same shape as the Rover 400) but had an absolutely stonking engine (red-lined at c8500 rpm).
A real pussycat around town, give it some welly (over 5000 rpm) and it really flies.
A real pussycat around town, give it some welly (over 5000 rpm) and it really flies.
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by matthewr
Alex -- I think you can take it as read that we are talking secondhand.
Excellent stuff everybody. Keep it coming.
Matthew
Excellent stuff everybody. Keep it coming.
Matthew
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by Brian OReilly
I think the most appropriate solution would be a trip to one of those "used car supermarkets". As far as I know the price you see is the price you pay (cue tiresome tales of haggling 30% off etc). Must come with a warranty.
The Alfa is out I'm afraid-fabulous dynamics but needs a lot of love(ie money). BMWs/Audis are possible at 10K, but the real expense behind these are the servicing costs.
I can hear a little voice whispering...... Skoda. Part of the VW/Audi/Seat axis-of-evil, so should be reliable/practical/cheap to own and although too basic for a toff like me, reasonably handsome in a funny sort of way.
Brian OReilly
The Alfa is out I'm afraid-fabulous dynamics but needs a lot of love(ie money). BMWs/Audis are possible at 10K, but the real expense behind these are the servicing costs.
I can hear a little voice whispering...... Skoda. Part of the VW/Audi/Seat axis-of-evil, so should be reliable/practical/cheap to own and although too basic for a toff like me, reasonably handsome in a funny sort of way.
Brian OReilly
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by Steve G
Another vote for Honda - either a Civic or Accord.
The Audi A4 is a nice little car but the one I had wasn't all that well built and had a few reliabilty niggles.
The Audi A4 is a nice little car but the one I had wasn't all that well built and had a few reliabilty niggles.
Posted on: 14 April 2004 by Steve Toy
I agree that most Japanese cars seem to be the most reliable.
However, as a taxi driver for the last 9 years I rate Fords. They are not the best built cars out there, nor are they the most reliable, but when they develop a fault they usually giver you notice in the form of a clonk, rattle, squeak, or some other such noise for a while before they actually break down. Also parts are cheap and readily available in stock both new and used, so they can be fixed quickly and cheaply.
I do not recommend Skodas. The one I've been renting for the last two and a half years from brand new has been a bit of a nightmare - it is on its fifth clutch, second flywheel and third gearbox in 160,000 miles. This week it is in the garage waiting for a new radiator, a head gasket and for the top of the engine block to be skimmed. Door handle cables often snap and we can wait nearly a week just for those to be replaced.
An inoperative door handle is not just a minor inconvenience to us...
It also has a nasty habit when it does develop a fault of just breaking down and stopping without warning.
During the week I can always borrow a spare car but at the weekend I shall be out of work, for the Friday at least.
The other three Skodas on our fleet have had a similar chequered history.
My own private car is a Mondeo that I used to drive as a taxi. It is only on its third clutch, original gearbox, and has done 250,000 miles.
Regards,
Steve.
However, as a taxi driver for the last 9 years I rate Fords. They are not the best built cars out there, nor are they the most reliable, but when they develop a fault they usually giver you notice in the form of a clonk, rattle, squeak, or some other such noise for a while before they actually break down. Also parts are cheap and readily available in stock both new and used, so they can be fixed quickly and cheaply.
I do not recommend Skodas. The one I've been renting for the last two and a half years from brand new has been a bit of a nightmare - it is on its fifth clutch, second flywheel and third gearbox in 160,000 miles. This week it is in the garage waiting for a new radiator, a head gasket and for the top of the engine block to be skimmed. Door handle cables often snap and we can wait nearly a week just for those to be replaced.
An inoperative door handle is not just a minor inconvenience to us...
It also has a nasty habit when it does develop a fault of just breaking down and stopping without warning.
During the week I can always borrow a spare car but at the weekend I shall be out of work, for the Friday at least.
The other three Skodas on our fleet have had a similar chequered history.
My own private car is a Mondeo that I used to drive as a taxi. It is only on its third clutch, original gearbox, and has done 250,000 miles.
Regards,
Steve.
Posted on: 15 April 2004 by BLT
I would normally advise people to buy a Honda or Mazda if they want something reliable, I reckon that Honda make the best engines in the world for pretty much everything (Motorbikes, Cars, Lawnmowers, Generators, Boats etc.)with the exception of F1 cars.
However, as your friend seems likely to keep this car for a long time (and all cars are unreliable when they are old) I would advise on something that will be cheap to repair, namely Ford. Both the Focus and the Mundaneo are pretty reliable, very good to drive and cheap to repair.
A basic 1.6 Focus ranks as the best-handling FWD road-car I have ever driven and a recent 350 mile run in a Mondeo 1.8 revealed it to be as quiet as a Bentley Mulsanne Turbo when cruising at 90mph. (I drove the Beltley the day before the run in the Mondeo)
As to where to buy, I would look at an ex-lease car or perhaps ex-hire. They will at least have been maintained properly (private owners of Fords are notorious for not servicing their cars). Also, a car which has done a higher than average mileage in a short time is usually a better buy than an older car with lower miles. High miles tends to suggest Motorway useage which causes much less wear than cold starts and short runs.
However, as your friend seems likely to keep this car for a long time (and all cars are unreliable when they are old) I would advise on something that will be cheap to repair, namely Ford. Both the Focus and the Mundaneo are pretty reliable, very good to drive and cheap to repair.
A basic 1.6 Focus ranks as the best-handling FWD road-car I have ever driven and a recent 350 mile run in a Mondeo 1.8 revealed it to be as quiet as a Bentley Mulsanne Turbo when cruising at 90mph. (I drove the Beltley the day before the run in the Mondeo)
As to where to buy, I would look at an ex-lease car or perhaps ex-hire. They will at least have been maintained properly (private owners of Fords are notorious for not servicing their cars). Also, a car which has done a higher than average mileage in a short time is usually a better buy than an older car with lower miles. High miles tends to suggest Motorway useage which causes much less wear than cold starts and short runs.
Posted on: 15 April 2004 by matthewr
My friend sends his thanks for your help and insights.
Matthew
Matthew
Posted on: 15 April 2004 by NB
One to consider but as of yet un-mentioned is the Lexus Is200.
A very under-rated car but I am not sure whether you can pick upa second hand one for less than £10K.
Regards
NB
A very under-rated car but I am not sure whether you can pick upa second hand one for less than £10K.
Regards
NB
Posted on: 15 April 2004 by Hammerhead
I've just had a quick sniff on Autotrader and found an ideal motor for the gent about London Town. A Mini Cooper (the new one).
If your friend gets one with a TLC pack he'll be looking at free servicing for 5 years! (or the remainder of, if buying used). Nippy, cool and classy. Boot space a bit crap though and it may make him look like an Estate Agent ;-)
Loads about for well under 10k.
Steve
If your friend gets one with a TLC pack he'll be looking at free servicing for 5 years! (or the remainder of, if buying used). Nippy, cool and classy. Boot space a bit crap though and it may make him look like an Estate Agent ;-)
Loads about for well under 10k.
Steve
Posted on: 15 April 2004 by Arun Mehan
Patrick, and for anyone else who cares, although a lot of Hondas and Toyotas are made in the countries in which they are being sold, they are still considered imports. An import implies non-US (or UK for that matter) engineering and design, quality and reliability. NO American automobile comes close to the fit and finish of a Japanese/German counterpart.
Posted on: 15 April 2004 by Potiriadis
Call this a NAIM based forum, you ought to ashamed, how can you value Pace, Rythm and Timing and talk about japanese cars. What a man needs is a car with a soul, a car with a real engine, by this I mean a V6, not some elastic band powered four cylinder tin plate lawn mower power.
Just check out the prices for used Afla 156's, a three year old with 30-26 thousand miles on the clock can be yours privateely for around £8,000.00 giving you a 2.5 litre V6 with 190 BHP and a kerb wheight of 1350kg, a power to weight ratio of 140 bhp/tonne, check it against almost any other similalry proced sports saloon, you will be suprised how quick it is. But more importantly it has a soul. I defy anyone to listen to this engine running flat out or idling and not have a minor religous moment.
Waithing to be crucified now.
Help Bunnys everywhere!!!!!
No Seriously, everywhere!!!!!!!
Just check out the prices for used Afla 156's, a three year old with 30-26 thousand miles on the clock can be yours privateely for around £8,000.00 giving you a 2.5 litre V6 with 190 BHP and a kerb wheight of 1350kg, a power to weight ratio of 140 bhp/tonne, check it against almost any other similalry proced sports saloon, you will be suprised how quick it is. But more importantly it has a soul. I defy anyone to listen to this engine running flat out or idling and not have a minor religous moment.
Waithing to be crucified now.
Help Bunnys everywhere!!!!!
No Seriously, everywhere!!!!!!!
Posted on: 15 April 2004 by MarkEJ
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Toy:
...on its fifth clutch, second flywheel and third gearbox in 160,000 miles. This week it is in the garage waiting for a new radiator, a head gasket and for the top of the engine block to be skimmed.
Bugger! That is seriously bad for a modern car -- I thought VW had been good for Skoda, but clearly it's just another marketing thing.
I tend reluctantly to agree about Fords however. As a comparison, mine has done 165,000 miles and has needed one battery, an alternator, a pair of rear brake drums, and an exhaust system. It only failed to start when the battery failed. No clutches, no gearboxes, no major bits at all (touches wood), and we can carry surfboards inside. Oh alright, it's a Transit. But hell, 5 clutches...????
Posted on: 15 April 2004 by Steve Toy
I really fancy a Focus diesel next. They handle well, go like shit off a shovel, are economical, reliable, and/or are cheap to fix.
I also think they look quite nice.
Regards,
Steve.
I also think they look quite nice.
Regards,
Steve.
Posted on: 16 April 2004 by Rockingdoc
I'm a former Alfa owner
I now have a Japanese car.
The reason three year old Alfas are cheap is because they self-destruct at four years old.
I now have a Japanese car.
The reason three year old Alfas are cheap is because they self-destruct at four years old.
Posted on: 16 April 2004 by JohanR
quote:
Every former Alfa owner I know now has a Japanese car, so if this pattern is typical you'll have to try harder if you want to be crucified.
Oops! I've had an Alfa 156 and now I have, to be on the safe side, not one, but two Jap cars.
quote:
Here's the Alfasud 1.3Ti I had during my second incarnation as a student in the mid to late 1980s. A NAIT1 on wheels:
Aha! Then a 33 would be a NAIT 2? But my NAIT 2 is something like 13 years old and working 100%...
JohanR
Posted on: 16 April 2004 by DavidY80
I'm a former Alfa owner. I now drive a French car!!!