What type of bike
Posted by: Mick P on 15 March 2004
Chaps
I am only a couple of weeks away from retirement and as such will need a mode of transport. I am trying to avoid buying a second car and would like to buy a bike to do relatively short journeys of say up to 5 or 6 miles. Mainly as an aid to returning my body to its previous Greek God proportions.
I will be going to the gym between 8.00am and 10.00am most weekday mornings and a bike would be a good way of getting there.
Swindon has a good cycle path infrstructure and I have no interest in cyling up mountains or mud tracks. It there is no tarmac, I shall not go, so to speak.
So what sort of machine should I be looking at and is it better to buy from a national chain such as Halfords, a local chap or via the net.
Many thanks
Lycra clad Mick
I am only a couple of weeks away from retirement and as such will need a mode of transport. I am trying to avoid buying a second car and would like to buy a bike to do relatively short journeys of say up to 5 or 6 miles. Mainly as an aid to returning my body to its previous Greek God proportions.
I will be going to the gym between 8.00am and 10.00am most weekday mornings and a bike would be a good way of getting there.
Swindon has a good cycle path infrstructure and I have no interest in cyling up mountains or mud tracks. It there is no tarmac, I shall not go, so to speak.
So what sort of machine should I be looking at and is it better to buy from a national chain such as Halfords, a local chap or via the net.
Many thanks
Lycra clad Mick
Posted on: 21 March 2004 by Mick P
Did you look at Trek, or was all my advice for naught? <grumbles and curses under breath>
Unfortunately, the part of Swindon where the Trek shop is, was shut down yesterday by the Police due to a murder. Such things are fortunately rare is this little backwater.
I will be viewing next weekend.
Many thanks
Mick
Unfortunately, the part of Swindon where the Trek shop is, was shut down yesterday by the Police due to a murder. Such things are fortunately rare is this little backwater.
I will be viewing next weekend.
Many thanks
Mick
Posted on: 21 March 2004 by matthewr
"The "perfect" bike for Mick is probably somewhere between the two"
If a £160 bike is not perfectly suitable for Mick's needs (low mileage, flat locale, leisurely pace, "gentleman" rider) and built well enough to last Mick for the rest of his natural I'll eat my hat. I can;t for the life of me see what's wrong with the Raleigh that the bike shops recommended to Mick.
Spending any more would almost certainly be a waste of money until Mick has demonstrated he has requirements beyond a basic quality bike.
BTW Mick : Trek are the rough American equivalent of Raleigh. Good name, good value, basic reliable mass produced bikes made cheaper than everybody else due to volumes and commercial muscle.
Matthew
If a £160 bike is not perfectly suitable for Mick's needs (low mileage, flat locale, leisurely pace, "gentleman" rider) and built well enough to last Mick for the rest of his natural I'll eat my hat. I can;t for the life of me see what's wrong with the Raleigh that the bike shops recommended to Mick.
Spending any more would almost certainly be a waste of money until Mick has demonstrated he has requirements beyond a basic quality bike.
BTW Mick : Trek are the rough American equivalent of Raleigh. Good name, good value, basic reliable mass produced bikes made cheaper than everybody else due to volumes and commercial muscle.
Matthew
Posted on: 21 March 2004 by ErikL
Raleigh are more like Schwinn- once a great brand but a slide in quality, design, and respect the past 30 years. Trek's crushed both because of quality, design, value, and respect.
Anyway, Mick should take a few test rides.
Anyway, Mick should take a few test rides.
Posted on: 21 March 2004 by matthewr
I always felt sorry for Raleigh as their bikes -- esp the Raleigh Special Products ones -- were as good as any of the major manufacturers but nobody bought them because, well becuase it was a Raleigh and nobody wanted to buy a bike that is forever associated with riding to school.
FWIW, and whilst it's 4 or 5 years since I've actually seen one, there never seemed to be anything wrong with Raleigh's quality compared to other mass market bikes and in the absence of any evidence to the contary I'd still trust them to correctly construct a basic reliable frame (it is not, after all, rocket science).
Matthew
FWIW, and whilst it's 4 or 5 years since I've actually seen one, there never seemed to be anything wrong with Raleigh's quality compared to other mass market bikes and in the absence of any evidence to the contary I'd still trust them to correctly construct a basic reliable frame (it is not, after all, rocket science).
Matthew
Posted on: 21 March 2004 by ErikL
But Mick's the sort of guy who'd appreciate the skill that goes into building a Trek, versus Raleigh (just like Huffy) simply ordering frames and parts from those huge Chinese and Taiwanese parts catalogs (Ever seen one? They're like 1,200 pages!). I don't disagree that you can't coast down to the corner store on a Raleigh, but they're chintzy bikes.
And FWIW Trek actually did hire rocket scientists to design its low void CF/thermoset frames and manufacturing processes!
And FWIW Trek actually did hire rocket scientists to design its low void CF/thermoset frames and manufacturing processes!
Posted on: 21 March 2004 by matthewr
Hmmm. Maybe things have changed since I last looked closely at Trek but they were always mass-market factory assembled bikes of the good value but unremarkable variety -- basically always lumped them in with the likes of Giant and Scott and had them a notch below mid-market types like Kona and Marin.
Didn't all you Westcoasters cry foul and picket the factory when they bought Bontrager and Gary Fisher?
Matthew
Didn't all you Westcoasters cry foul and picket the factory when they bought Bontrager and Gary Fisher?
Matthew
Posted on: 21 March 2004 by ErikL
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
Didn't all you Westcoasters cry foul and picket the factory when they bought Bontrager and Gary Fisher?
And Klein! (I was East Coast though)
I hate being a bike snob but I am one. I used to have access via coworkers to innerworkings of the mentioned high volume companies and in my opinion Trek was alone in differentiating its product based on excellent engineering and manufacturing. True, their designs are boring, but they've always spent a ton of resources on the highest quality possible given the price (paint, materials, welding, tubing specs, part specs, etc). Low to mid market Scott, Giant, Schwinn, Raleigh, Specialized, Diamond Back, Kona, GT, etc, etc bikes don't and can't offer the same. They compete on trendy paint, creative component spec, the latest suspension, sponsoring teams, and coolness factor (of course some of these things change at the high end of their ranges). Not that there's anything wrong with that.
If I offended anyone by mentioning their brand of bike, feel free to make fun of my current car- a '91 Honda beater.
Ludwig
Trek, Gary Fisher, Bridgestone, Independent Fabrication, Waterford, Gunnar, Rocky Mountain fan
Posted on: 21 March 2004 by Mick P
I still fancy the Pashley Paramount.
Built like a victorian outdoor toilet.
Regards
Mick
Built like a victorian outdoor toilet.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 21 March 2004 by ErikL
Having now viewed the Pashley, I hereby withdraw all of my advice from this thread.
Mick, will you be donned in a cardigan sweater and smoking a pipe while riding the Pashley?
Mick, will you be donned in a cardigan sweater and smoking a pipe while riding the Pashley?
Posted on: 21 March 2004 by Mick P
Ludwig
The Paramount looks quite modern.
Regards
Mick
The Paramount looks quite modern.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
The Paramount looks quite modern.
Compared to a Penny Farthing perhaps?
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by Mick P
It has a real leather saddle and a hub brake. Five speed hub gear. If it is well made, what is wrong with it or is it genuinely outdated in terms of performance.
I am looking at a Trek this coming weekend and then it has to be make up my mind time. I do not intend to be a Nuno of bicycles.
BTW, many thanks for your comments, I have found them usefull.
Regards
Mick
I am looking at a Trek this coming weekend and then it has to be make up my mind time. I do not intend to be a Nuno of bicycles.
BTW, many thanks for your comments, I have found them usefull.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
It has a real leather saddle and a hub brake. Five speed hub gear. If it is well made, what is wrong with it or is it genuinely outdated in terms of performance.
If that's what you are after then there is nothing wrong with it as a choice. If you get enjoyment out of it and find it adequate for your purposes then that's fine.
I would recommend that you try to get decent test rides on a selection of bikes so see if you notice the difference in bike weights, materials and gears etc. I've never ridden (or even in fact seen) one of the Pashleys so I'm guessing what it'd be like to ride (e.g. heavy, sluggish and a right bugger uphill or into the wind) however I don't know that for sure.
If you do get the Pashley and then find you're enjoying your cycling and extend your routes etc. then I'm less convinced by it as a long term choice.
Perhaps Matthew is correct and you should get something like the cheap Raleigh as an initial bike then if you like cycling you can upgrade to something better without having committed much expenditure in the first place.
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by matthewr
"I hate being a bike snob but I am one"
Nothing wrong with being a bike snob but usually this involves slagging off Trek not defending them
"Low to mid market Scott, Giant, Schwinn, Raleigh, Specialized, Diamond Back, Kona, GT, etc, etc bikes"
Nothing wrong with Specialised and Kona who both make excellent bikes IMHO. Especially Kona whose rigid frames both in steel and alu (Lava Dome, Caldera, etc) are absolute classics -- you see *lots* of old Kona frames still going strong as courier bikes in London.
Specialised also make some fabulous bikes -- from the stone cold classic Stumpjumpers through to an excellent and extensive range of well differentiated FS bikes. Arguably the do a much better implementation of the Turner/Leitner 4-bar linkage design than Trek.
"They compete on trendy paint, creative component spec, the latest suspension, sponsoring teams, and coolness factor"
They all do to some extent as the design and build of MTB frames (in all their guises) has massively converged since the days when people actually argued about which head angle was best and how to make a frame strong and lighter, etc. Nowadays a lot of the difference in mass manufactured bikes is about what fancy name to give to the fact that, like everybody else, you ovalise you down tube halfway along and have a little wiggle in your chain stays.
Matthew
Marin, Kona, Orange, Santa Cruz, Race Face, Cove, Synchros, Rocky Mountain, Cove, De Kerf
Nothing wrong with being a bike snob but usually this involves slagging off Trek not defending them
"Low to mid market Scott, Giant, Schwinn, Raleigh, Specialized, Diamond Back, Kona, GT, etc, etc bikes"
Nothing wrong with Specialised and Kona who both make excellent bikes IMHO. Especially Kona whose rigid frames both in steel and alu (Lava Dome, Caldera, etc) are absolute classics -- you see *lots* of old Kona frames still going strong as courier bikes in London.
Specialised also make some fabulous bikes -- from the stone cold classic Stumpjumpers through to an excellent and extensive range of well differentiated FS bikes. Arguably the do a much better implementation of the Turner/Leitner 4-bar linkage design than Trek.
"They compete on trendy paint, creative component spec, the latest suspension, sponsoring teams, and coolness factor"
They all do to some extent as the design and build of MTB frames (in all their guises) has massively converged since the days when people actually argued about which head angle was best and how to make a frame strong and lighter, etc. Nowadays a lot of the difference in mass manufactured bikes is about what fancy name to give to the fact that, like everybody else, you ovalise you down tube halfway along and have a little wiggle in your chain stays.
Matthew
Marin, Kona, Orange, Santa Cruz, Race Face, Cove, Synchros, Rocky Mountain, Cove, De Kerf
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
"I hate being a bike snob but I am one"
Nothing wrong with being a bike snob but usually this involves slagging off Trek not defending them
I can't recall the last time I saw a Trek mountain bike being used off-road.
quote:
"Low to mid market Scott, Giant, Schwinn, Raleigh, Specialized, Diamond Back, Kona, GT, etc, etc bikes"
Nothing wrong with Specialised and Kona who both make excellent bikes IMHO.
My current full-susser is a Specialized and my previous one was a Kona. Both were very well put together.
quote:
They all do to some extent as the design and build of MTB frames (in all their guises) has massively converged
There are still some unusual designs about though. my Epic being a good example.
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by matthewr
"There are still some unusual designs about though. my Epic being a good example"
I thought the Epics were just the latest version of the Turner 4-bar linkage "walking beam" albeit with some kind of reactive shock that automatically locks out when under constant load. Evolution of a common deisgn rather then revolution I thought.
Matthew
I thought the Epics were just the latest version of the Turner 4-bar linkage "walking beam" albeit with some kind of reactive shock that automatically locks out when under constant load. Evolution of a common deisgn rather then revolution I thought.
Matthew
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
"There are still some unusual designs about though. my Epic being a good example"
I thought the Epics were just the latest version of the Turner 4-bar linkage "walking beam" albeit with some kind of reactive shock that automatically locks out when under constant load. Evolution of a common deisgn rather then revolution I thought.
The FSR 4-bar Horst link (which Specialized hold the patent for) is standard enough however the shock placement, shock design and ethos of the bike (70% hardtail, 30% full-suss) is more unusual.
Saying the shock locks under under constant load also isn't quite correct as it's normal position is to be locked out and it only unlocks once a vertical acceleration threshold is exceeded.
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by Mick P
If I buy a Pashley, am I up at the top or down at the bottom in the bike snob stakes.
Regards
Mick
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by Rasher
You would have to change your system to a Garrard 301, SME 3009, Sugden A21 with Quad Electostatics, preferably all pre-1973.
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
If I buy a Pashley, am I up at the top or down at the bottom in the bike snob stakes.
Down the bottom - most people will assume you can't afford a decent modern bike and are riding about on something that had been lying in your garage for years...
BTW I was in Halfords at lunchtime buying inner tubes and they had that Raleigh you mentioned on display. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to heft it as it was up on a stand.
They had a slight more expensive (£200) but similar Carrera which I did get a chance to lift and it didn't seem too heavy despite having a suspension seatpost, suspension forks and mudguards, carrier etc.
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by matthewr
Mick,
Depends. If you buy a Pashley like this:
Then you are not remotely a bike snob and will have to endure snotty youths shouting "Nice bike Grandad" as you trundle on by.
However, Pashley are brilliant engineers and their bikes are of the very high quality associated with traditional British craftsmanship and are at least as well made as most "modern" MTBs including Steve's Sepcialized.
Pashley are also highly regarded and extremely trendy and fashionable amongst street & trials riders and riding something like this Pashley...
...will get you approving nods from The Kids albiet at the expense of a bad back. If you nail that 360 over the Town Hall steps you will be officially the coolest man in Swindon.
Their frames are seriously cool and beautifully made and have the sort of gorgeously neat welds that Bike Snobs wet themselves over.
Matthew
Depends. If you buy a Pashley like this:
Then you are not remotely a bike snob and will have to endure snotty youths shouting "Nice bike Grandad" as you trundle on by.
However, Pashley are brilliant engineers and their bikes are of the very high quality associated with traditional British craftsmanship and are at least as well made as most "modern" MTBs including Steve's Sepcialized.
Pashley are also highly regarded and extremely trendy and fashionable amongst street & trials riders and riding something like this Pashley...
...will get you approving nods from The Kids albiet at the expense of a bad back. If you nail that 360 over the Town Hall steps you will be officially the coolest man in Swindon.
Their frames are seriously cool and beautifully made and have the sort of gorgeously neat welds that Bike Snobs wet themselves over.
Matthew
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
Mick,
Depends. If you buy a Pashley like this:
Here's the perfect Pashley for Mick:
"The MailStar is the latest design of mail delivery cycle and is the choice of the Royal Mail for service.
Designed to operate in the toughest of conditions, easy to maintain, dependable and capable of carrying loads of up to 24 kilos. The step through frame design allows a quick and easy dismount ideally suited to short journeys. The MailStar is a firm favourite with posties."
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by matthewr
We did the Postie bike joke on page 1 Steve, please pay attention.
Matthew
Matthew
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
We did the Postie bike joke on page 1 Steve, please pay attention.
I'd ignored the piss-take postings so didn't see that one!
On reviewing them I noticed that someone also mentioned the new Raleigh Chopper. Halfords had one of those on display as well and what a piece of crap it is.
Posted on: 22 March 2004 by Rockingdoc
quote:
Originally posted by Ludwig:
Mick,
Raleigh are crap bikes through and through.
Er, no I don't think so. My Raleigh Special Products titanium road bike is the best bike I've ever ridden (or seen) by a margin. I think you are refering to the non-UK Raleighs.