My first Naim.......help please......
Posted by: arf005 on 22 March 2004
Forum newbie (my first post), so please be gentle.....
I'm looking for opinions/reviews on a shortlist of products, hopefully soon to be my first Naim system....
At the mo I already have an a/v set up - B&W and Rotel, if you want a look check out - (www.avforums.com/memberpages/31759/) But, as we have managed to secure a new house I'm looking to invest in a new set up. Oh, and the budget has definitely stretched from 2k!!
Short list 1...this is the cheaper option - the one my fiancé would approve of....
NAIT CD5i £825
NAIT 5i Amp £700
FLAPCAP 2 £500
Have always liked the idea of pre/power amp set up and would be interested to hear about.....
NAC 112 £660, and NAP 150 £795
The cheaper of the more expensive options if you know what I mean, or...
NAC 202 £1375, and NAP 200 £1345
Really pushing the boat, and bank balance out the door and down the street and well, you get the picture....
Will hopefully be driving some of the above through B&W's Nautilus 803's (£3500) into a lounge that's 22' by 14'.
My thought's at first were to go for the first (cheaper) option of the Nait set up, but was concerned about not doing the 803's justice, with a lack of power.....
To overcome this I thought about the pre/power amp set up, still using the Nait CD5i as my source. I believe the NAP 150 has the same 50W (into 8 Ohms) power as the Nait 5i, but may be more refined being in a separate housing.....?
Once I learned about the interest free credit deals available at my friendly retailer (been communicating with Robert, from Robert Ritchie HiFi in Montrose) the bud of an idea for more power started to grow.....
Now I know the easiest answer is to say - to hell with the budget!
But I'm looking for more constructive ideas/opinions - although I'm sure a few piss takers' will probably get a laugh in there too, which is cool and always good for a giggle...
But my realistic budget is £5 to 6k....and that's why I've been listing prices, just to remind myself how much this is all going to cost!
If needs must, I could go for the Nautilus 804's, a whole grand cheaper than the 803's, freeing up extra cash for the funky wee black boxes that make lots of noise, but that would kind of defeat the purpose of going for the 804's to try and reduce the budget.....
Decisions, decisions.....life is complicated....
So. There you have it....
Sorry for going on and taking up a LOT of space, but this is my first Naim, and I would like it to be perfect.
Looking forward to your comments.....
Cheers, Ali.
I'm looking for opinions/reviews on a shortlist of products, hopefully soon to be my first Naim system....
At the mo I already have an a/v set up - B&W and Rotel, if you want a look check out - (www.avforums.com/memberpages/31759/) But, as we have managed to secure a new house I'm looking to invest in a new set up. Oh, and the budget has definitely stretched from 2k!!
Short list 1...this is the cheaper option - the one my fiancé would approve of....
NAIT CD5i £825
NAIT 5i Amp £700
FLAPCAP 2 £500
Have always liked the idea of pre/power amp set up and would be interested to hear about.....
NAC 112 £660, and NAP 150 £795
The cheaper of the more expensive options if you know what I mean, or...
NAC 202 £1375, and NAP 200 £1345
Really pushing the boat, and bank balance out the door and down the street and well, you get the picture....
Will hopefully be driving some of the above through B&W's Nautilus 803's (£3500) into a lounge that's 22' by 14'.
My thought's at first were to go for the first (cheaper) option of the Nait set up, but was concerned about not doing the 803's justice, with a lack of power.....
To overcome this I thought about the pre/power amp set up, still using the Nait CD5i as my source. I believe the NAP 150 has the same 50W (into 8 Ohms) power as the Nait 5i, but may be more refined being in a separate housing.....?
Once I learned about the interest free credit deals available at my friendly retailer (been communicating with Robert, from Robert Ritchie HiFi in Montrose) the bud of an idea for more power started to grow.....
Now I know the easiest answer is to say - to hell with the budget!
But I'm looking for more constructive ideas/opinions - although I'm sure a few piss takers' will probably get a laugh in there too, which is cool and always good for a giggle...
But my realistic budget is £5 to 6k....and that's why I've been listing prices, just to remind myself how much this is all going to cost!
If needs must, I could go for the Nautilus 804's, a whole grand cheaper than the 803's, freeing up extra cash for the funky wee black boxes that make lots of noise, but that would kind of defeat the purpose of going for the 804's to try and reduce the budget.....
Decisions, decisions.....life is complicated....
So. There you have it....
Sorry for going on and taking up a LOT of space, but this is my first Naim, and I would like it to be perfect.
Looking forward to your comments.....
Cheers, Ali.
Ali,
I would suggest that you should consider second-hand as offering really excellent value for money - especially as most owners treasure the kit they have invested in and therefore keep it like new anyway...!
This then opens up a whole wider vista of equipment, as unless its under a year old prices seem to hover at around 50 to 60% of RRP...
I would also seriously reconsider blowing vast amounts of your budget on speakers (aka known as mulleting) tempting though this is - it is a sure-fire way of missing lots of dynamics and glorious musical perfomance - after all the speakers can only present what they are fed with.
I would therefore suggest from ebay or pinkfish:
CDX (1500) / 82(1100) / Hicap(450) / NAPSC (150) / NAP180 (450) / SBL (700)
A cool £9k's worth coming in at around £4.5k ... !!!
As a general view I would stick with pretty new CD players - the mechs do wear out and although they can be serviced, are a bit pricey to do - the amps go for ever so age is far less of an issue...
If you want to spend more, you can go on forever: add another hicap to the 82, replace the hicap(s) on the 82 with a supercap (1700), an xps would make the cdx sing, swap the 200 for a 250 or a pair of 135's... also a fraim will give wonderful enhancments as will a good mains set up...
Hope This Helps
Chris
I would suggest that you should consider second-hand as offering really excellent value for money - especially as most owners treasure the kit they have invested in and therefore keep it like new anyway...!
This then opens up a whole wider vista of equipment, as unless its under a year old prices seem to hover at around 50 to 60% of RRP...
I would also seriously reconsider blowing vast amounts of your budget on speakers (aka known as mulleting) tempting though this is - it is a sure-fire way of missing lots of dynamics and glorious musical perfomance - after all the speakers can only present what they are fed with.
I would therefore suggest from ebay or pinkfish:
CDX (1500) / 82(1100) / Hicap(450) / NAPSC (150) / NAP180 (450) / SBL (700)
A cool £9k's worth coming in at around £4.5k ... !!!
As a general view I would stick with pretty new CD players - the mechs do wear out and although they can be serviced, are a bit pricey to do - the amps go for ever so age is far less of an issue...
If you want to spend more, you can go on forever: add another hicap to the 82, replace the hicap(s) on the 82 with a supercap (1700), an xps would make the cdx sing, swap the 200 for a 250 or a pair of 135's... also a fraim will give wonderful enhancments as will a good mains set up...
Hope This Helps
Chris
I'd go for CD5i, Nait5i and speakers of choice. Then spend the money saved on optimising it all with decent stands, mains and lots of CD's
The Flatcap2 can not be added to either 5i product. The Nait5i does not have pre-outs so can not have a power amp added. These are huge pluses because there is no easy upgrade route which will hopefully stave off 'upgaditis' for as long as possible
The best answer I've seen so far is to go to your dealers for some extended demo's. It's what I did after coming here for advice on how to listen to gear (Auditioning: Please help a newbee!) I ended up with CD5, Nait5, FC2 and Ruark Prelude 2's because I couldn't justify the extra cost for the 112/150 combination. It did sound better, but not £600 better (to me)
Seth
The Flatcap2 can not be added to either 5i product. The Nait5i does not have pre-outs so can not have a power amp added. These are huge pluses because there is no easy upgrade route which will hopefully stave off 'upgaditis' for as long as possible
The best answer I've seen so far is to go to your dealers for some extended demo's. It's what I did after coming here for advice on how to listen to gear (Auditioning: Please help a newbee!) I ended up with CD5, Nait5, FC2 and Ruark Prelude 2's because I couldn't justify the extra cost for the 112/150 combination. It did sound better, but not £600 better (to me)
Seth
quote:
Originally posted by Richard @ Soundcraft:
Some interesting opinions here, my two pence..
The purchase is to be funded by taking advantage of the dealer credit terms, which rules out an eBay or pinkfish purchase.
Although it is considered blasphemy by many members of the forum the Nautilus range of speakers are fabulous and do make very good sounds on the end of Naim kit. If you disagree, then fine, your choice. The 803's are much better than the 804's but ONLY when driven properly, a 250 at minimum. Therefore 804's are the better bet if you are considering amplification like the 202/200. You will have to make your own mind up about which source to go for, but I suspect that the cd5i will be too much of an unbalance. Ideally a CDX2 will be the best bet. What was that you were saying about budget?...
I agree about the 800 series being very, very good at the end of a Naim system. I heard mine in a good system last weekend and they were very very good to say the least. They sing a bit at the end of my Nait5, but a 250 definetly makes them sing
. A 200 could, but not like I've experienced them last weekend. About the system:
Try the 803's on the set you'd like to end up with (starting simple and work your way to it) and then try the 804's. Then you know the kind of speaker you're looking for. I definetly think you should start with the CDX2, it's worth every penny! As amps, start of with a 112/150. Easily upgradable and powerfull enough to drive them loud, but they can;t make them sing like the bogger amps. They happen to be very capable though
. Cheers!
Kevin
If your considering 805's, I would wholeheartedly recommend the Signature versions. They don't just look better, they sound a lot better as well!
I started out looking at a Naim/804 combination. Now I own a pair of Signature 805's and never regretted I missed out on some bass. The Signature is miles ahead of the 804's, in every respect, except in the real low frquency ranges.
Just a suggestion, although it might be a costy one
.
I started out looking at a Naim/804 combination. Now I own a pair of Signature 805's and never regretted I missed out on some bass. The Signature is miles ahead of the 804's, in every respect, except in the real low frquency ranges.
Just a suggestion, although it might be a costy one
.I wish I had nicked them . Would have saved me quite a lot of money .
No, I work quite a lot, and earn reasonably well for a student. I don't go out much (because of my taste of music and mt pretty good ears, I can't stand most disco's and all), which gives me the oppurtunity to spend most of my earnings in music and HiFi, although I have plenty of other too expensive hobbies, but those I'm able to do as well, as I already have the material needs to do those .
But currently I have a Nait5, a Chord Cobra2 RCA->DIN, NAC A5 and the Signatures (including stands). The CD-player currently is a very nice and tiny portable CD-player, but next week I'm out to order my CDX2. Then I'm broke again .
I don't know if you're better of spending the cash on a better amp. It could still be a non compromise setup with the Signatures. They are teh same size, they just cost more and sound better, by quite a margin. They will keep you upgrading though. I heard them on a 282/250/CDX2/Supercap/Fraim lately (thanks again Geoff ); WOW! At home they sound very good, even at the end of the Nait (and ofcourse, the sweet discman). But a poweamp really gets them going. The 200 managed to do that, more or less, but not on the same scale the 250 was able to.
A better amp will result in a better sound, definetly. But it is the loudspeakers doing quite a lot too. They tend to make a larger difference than amps. It's yours to find out what you're looking for.
You do have a good plan, never listen out of budget with Naim. Keep it that way. If you don't plan to spend more money, (and if you're happy the way the 5i and CD5(i) sound on 805's) you're practically there . A good HiFi doesn't need to be expensive, but it sure helps a lot . Stick to the plan, but if you're still tempted to try the 804's, you should try the Signatures as well.
But as Paul stated, listen to more loudspeakers, if possible. I heard a couple of monitors, but the Signatures suited me best. Your sound might be different, although if you already like the 800 series, it might be difficult finding something you like as well.
Cheers!
Kevin
. Would have saved me quite a lot of money . No, I work quite a lot, and earn reasonably well for a student. I don't go out much (because of my taste of music and mt pretty good ears, I can't stand most disco's and all), which gives me the oppurtunity to spend most of my earnings in music and HiFi, although I have plenty of other too expensive hobbies, but those I'm able to do as well, as I already have the material needs to do those
. But currently I have a Nait5, a Chord Cobra2 RCA->DIN, NAC A5 and the Signatures (including stands). The CD-player currently is a very nice and tiny portable CD-player, but next week I'm out to order my CDX2. Then I'm broke again
.I don't know if you're better of spending the cash on a better amp. It could still be a non compromise setup with the Signatures. They are teh same size, they just cost more and sound better, by quite a margin. They will keep you upgrading though. I heard them on a 282/250/CDX2/Supercap/Fraim lately (thanks again Geoff
); WOW! At home they sound very good, even at the end of the Nait (and ofcourse, the sweet discman). But a poweamp really gets them going. The 200 managed to do that, more or less, but not on the same scale the 250 was able to.A better amp will result in a better sound, definetly. But it is the loudspeakers doing quite a lot too. They tend to make a larger difference than amps. It's yours to find out what you're looking for.
You do have a good plan, never listen out of budget with Naim. Keep it that way. If you don't plan to spend more money, (and if you're happy the way the 5i and CD5(i) sound on 805's) you're practically there
. A good HiFi doesn't need to be expensive, but it sure helps a lot . Stick to the plan, but if you're still tempted to try the 804's, you should try the Signatures as well. But as Paul stated, listen to more loudspeakers, if possible. I heard a couple of monitors, but the Signatures suited me best. Your sound might be different, although if you already like the 800 series, it might be difficult finding something you like as well.
Cheers!
Kevin