upgrade entry-level?

Sounds like you've got some medium - long term plans for the whole system Woody. I can't comment on the amplification, but good though the CD5 is, I would replace it first. I prefer to tweak from the source backwards. Moreover, it could be that unless you feel the system is seriously underpowered, one change to a higher grade CDP might sort it all out.

Either way, have fun.

Cheers

Harry

Harry,

I know, and completely understand, the source first philosphy (garbage in/garbage out right?) but I think that the Nait is probably the weak point at the moment...my medium term plan for my system is:
CDX2/XPS2
NAC282
NAP250
+ possibly speakers (Allaes/Nautilus 805s/Neat)

and at the moment I'm working out how best to get there - and I have the feeling that currently the amplification is the weakpoint and therefore the first thing to be added is the NAP250 to give a little more grunt. Isn't a CDX2 with a Nait a bit of a mullet???

Cheers

-- woody

Woody

I gradually upgraded from a 112/150 non Naim CDP to the current CDX2/282/250mkii/SC in the order written here. I would comment the following.

-The 250mkII is the most significant contributor to the scale of the music. Bass lines get stronger, deeper and are delivered with punch. The midrange & top are not forgotten either but it will either bring out everything in your speakers or put them to the test dependent on how well they do scale & power.

- The 282 is more about delicacy and reporting all the subtle details to the 250 and adds a sense of greater breadth to the frequency range.It needs a Supercap to shine properly though it did'nt sound bad ona HiCap.

- The CDX2 all by itself is veryvery good (I am not convinced I need an XPS2 though it must add something, though there does not seem to be much missing. The silences are velvet black and the detail captured from the CD is impressive. I don't know but ther can't be muchmissing for the CDS3 to find. The CDX2 and the 282 are IMO a match. Adding the xps2 would probably suggest going to the 252 as the next step.

So there you go.
- More delicacy desired first, go for the front end and the preamp.
- More power wanted and speakers that can handle the bass go for the 250mkII first

regards
GEOFF

quote:

---

Originally posted by woody:
My system is currently:
CD5/Nait5/FC2/Rega P25/MF X-LPS/B&W CDM1NT

I think I'll keep the CD5 (powered by the FC2) and the speakers/TT/phonostage for now (listen mainly to CD) and upgrade to CDX2 and possibly speakers will form the next upgrade.

Any thoughts/comments on this?

Cheers

-- woody

---

Woody,

How much do you want to spend ? I have CDX/Nai5/HiCap/Garrard401/Stageline,etc and B&W CDM1Se. When I went from the Nait5 to Nait5 plus HiCap, I got a bigger bolder presentation. Sounded more powerful. A HiCap is one of the most polyvalent upgrades you can go for. It will serve well if you are committed to getting a 282/250 combo. The CDX competes happilly with my TT and it all depends on the master source as to which is better between CD and LP on my Rig. In no way would I consider a CDX2 'wasted' in front of a HiCapped Nait

You can do youself a nice upgrade to your B&Ws for only 70€, that would make you think you got the 'signature' version, if it existed. It's replacing the Plastic phase plugs with solid Aluminium ones, such as used on the N800. In fact, as far as I know only the 800 has the solid plug. What you get is lower colouration, and more volume and projection for the same volume setting on the amp. You also get better insight into a performance.

Get these plugs here:Berny's Hifi Tuning (Berlin)

The Nait 5 has a lot more under the belt!

Peter

User34 at Laposte dot net

Woody

Tut, tut. It's less than a year old. Are all these musings because the 0% finance has now finished? Or was it the February ex-demo bargain 250 that Billy-Vee were advertising? [I was seriously tempted by January's 200]

I agree that in the current set-up the Nait is the weak link, so a power amp seems the best place to start. I discussed a similar idea with someone in the Naim room at Bristol. They thought a 250 on the end of the Nait would be a mis-match.

I'm not yet sure how much further up the ladder I am going to aim. A trip to the dealer is in order soon. Have you listened to 112/150 v 202/200 v 282/250, or is it all forum induced upgraditis at the minute?

I would also comment that the 282 requires powering from an external source [The FC2 will do as a stop gap] because the 250 can't power a pre-amp. I would definitely figure in a Hi-Cap to the upgrade plans.

Seth

quote:

---

Originally posted by Maxi Me:
Woody

Tut, tut. It's less than a year old. Are all these musings because the 0% finance has now finished? Or was it the February ex-demo bargain 250 that Billy-Vee were advertising? [I was seriously tempted by January's 200]

I agree that in the current set-up the Nait is the weak link, so a power amp seems the best place to start. I discussed a similar idea with someone in the Naim room at Bristol. They thought a 250 on the end of the Nait would be a mis-match.

I'm not yet sure how much further up the ladder I am going to aim. A trip to the dealer is in order soon. Have you listened to 112/150 v 202/200 v 282/250, or is it all forum induced upgraditis at the minute?

I would also comment that the 282 requires powering from an external source [The FC2 will do as a stop gap] because the 250 can't power a pre-amp. I would definitely figure in a Hi-Cap to the upgrade plans.

Seth

---

I listened to CDX2/NAC202/NAP200/SL2s in Hifi experience in tottenham court road and it sounded very very good...
Let me know when you're going down to the dealer and I may see you there!

-- woody

quote:

---

You can do youself a nice upgrade to your B&Ws for only 70€, that would make you think you got the 'signature' version, if it existed. It's replacing the Plastic phase plugs with solid Aluminium ones, such as used on the N800. In fact, as far as I know only the 800 has the solid plug.

---

Plastic phase plugs? Err...what are they-I don't think my CDM1NTs have 'em?

-- woody

quote:

---

I listened to CDX2/NAC202/NAP200/SL2s in Hifi experience in tottenham court road and it sounded very very good...
Let me know when you're going down to the dealer and I may see you there!

---

I hope you had better service than I got from Hi-Fi Experience. It was so bad I trekked all the way over to Lewisham instead of a simple journey on the Northern line. Very happy I was too with Billy-Vee.

Not sure when my next visit will be, I'm getting married this year so disposable income is being diverted to the Honeymoon. (A fortnight in Canada )

Seth

quote:

---

Plastic phase plugs? Err...what are they-I don't think my CDM1NTs have 'em?

---

Black bit that pokes out of the middle of the yellow bit!

Seth

Aha! So why not call 'em the black bit that pokes out of the middle of the yellow bit! Bah humbug!

-- woody

Because then it wouldn't be arcane knowledge
Anyway not everyone has garish cones to make the description easy!

My goodness, next you'll be asking why it's called a *cap and not big black battery 1, 2 or 3. Deliberate obsfuscation (sp?) is the way of any niche.

Seth

quote:

---

Originally posted by woody:
Aha! So why not call 'em the black bit that pokes out of the middle of the yellow bit! Bah humbug!

-- woody

---

I take it that your joshing wit' yer mate here. But I can assure you that the difference between the solid aliminium and the plastic pointy bits, is well, astounding.

Peter

User34 at Laposte dot net

I'd suggest a CDX2 as a first upgrade. I currently run a Nait5 into B&W Signature 805's and it deals with it pretty well. I also demo'ed it against the CD5/Hi, and the CDX2 won by far. I had no idea CD-players could make such as difference!

As for heading to a 282, you could, although most people would recommend getting a HiCap before heading off to a 282. But You can't sell your Nait, since a 282 doesn't include a poweramp, so you'd have to use the Nait as a power.

I'd say, go for a CDX2, the Nait5 is perfectly capable of driving your CDM's. It's not a mullet.

Woody, the NAIT 5 is an excellent amplifier, well up to showing up shortcomings in source or setup. If a system involving a NAIT is failing to satisfy in some way, then the source or the setup is the problem.

If there is no specific problem but you just want more, then upgrade the source. If you find your P25 inferior to the CD5, then this should alert you to a setup problem (is it level, and optimally supported?).

The P25 can be upgraded almost beyond recognition with a Heed power supply (about 300 quid IIRC) and your ears would thank you for replacing the phono stage with a StageLine / HiCap combo. The HiCap could be bought used, and should cost under 350 quid. This would also give you the opportunity to try the HiCap with the NAIT, and also with the CD5, so that you could establish where your future priorities lie.

A 250 with a NAIT would only reveal the shortcomings of both the NAIT preamp stage and the source (ie, everything upstream of it), and there is absolutely no way that upgrading a preamp can "reveal the weaknesses" of any power amp. It will simply supply it with a better signal, and thus you will get more music out, provided the source is up to it.

Best;

Mark

Mark,

First of all - I'm not unhappy with my kit. Far from it, I find it very satisfying (and from listening to the systems of a couple of friends - both big fans of Musical Fidelity, totally murdering theirs in almost every area) but I know it lacks something (from listening to CDX2/NAC202/NAP200 in shop). I can't put my finger on exactly what, though, but one thing I want a little tighter and more extended bass. Oh my god maybe it's the speakers!

I *do* find the P25 inferior in some ways to the P25 and I know I need to upgrade both the phonostage and cart (the one I have is just a temporary fix!)

I want to just work out which components to address first and I do feel that the current setup is not getting everything out of CD5/FC2.

-- woody

Woody, fair comment! In your shoes I would keep eyes peeled for a used HiCap. You may find that overall, the HiCap on the CD5 and F/C on the NAIT is better, or you may not, but at least you have the choice.

After this you can address the P25. The Heed PS is astonishing, but you can do that at your leisure. I suspect that what you are after can probably be mostly achieved by an acummulation of small improvements wrought by fiddling a bit. Speakers level? (they need to be!) Close to wall or not? Port bungs in or not? Nasty bridge pieces between the two sets of terminals on the back of the cabinet? (that's quite a big one -- get some more Naim plug pins and do an F-connection). Much can be achieved for little cost by getting very anal over seemingly tiny things for a weekend, fixing them, and then forgetting about it.

I also rather like the sound of Peter's suggestion about the phase plugs -- this kind of thing is usually good value.

Best;

Mark

quote:

---

Originally posted by woody:
Oh my god maybe it's the speakers!

I *do* find the P25 inferior in some ways to the P25 and I know I need to upgrade both the phonostage and cart (the one I have is just a temporary fix!)

I want to just work out which components to address first and I do feel that the current setup is not getting everything out of CD5/FC2.

---

I have CDX/Nait/Hi/CDM1Se. It might not do 'techno' style bass, but pianos, Led Zep, etc have all the bass weight I could want in a 24 sq m room. Have you looked at setting up your speakers with the Cara software ? That might get things in order. I can tell you that a HiCap wil punchout the envelope of your system in a big way. It's not the speakers, yet, that are holding it back. Although B&Ws are a bit lazy and take a bit of wick to make them lively. Mark's remarks about the straps between the biwire terminals is very important, that's an almost free upgrade.

Peter

User34 at Laposte dot net

I am still using the supplied copper connectors between the terminals and single 3.5m runs of NACA5 from amp->speakers...so should I get a bit of A5 to run between the terminals? Any particular length, and how do I connect it all up?

Are there any differences between generations of Hicap?

Oh yeah, what's the Cara software?

-- woody

quote:

---

Originally posted by woody:
should I get a bit of A5 to run between the terminals? Any particular length, and how do I connect it all up?

---

Woody:

Like this:



That's why you need Naim plug pins -- the slot across the top of them is exactly the right size for the NACA5 core. Works a treat.

Best;

Mark

Having recently climbed the naim ladder given your cuurent system, if you were going to do 1 thing, go to a cdx2, especially if cd is your main format, technically after that probably adding an xps2 would give you a better sound than what you have been thinking of doing, just a thought, would make a good dem, what do the dealers say??

Bottom line is you want to step up a level or two.
Source first (CDX) will wring the best out of your current system. 250 will expose the front end.
You really know you should go source first, but (like me) may do it a bit haphazardly. In my case it depended upon which kit I picked up first (I had CD3.5+Hi/62s+Hi/140, then got an 82 then a CDX then a 250).

Paul

quote:

---

Originally posted by woody:


Oh yeah, what's the Cara software?

-- woody

---

www.cara.de

Peter

User34 at Laposte dot net

Scarey...software to help you position your speakers....I've been messing around with 'em for a while and think everything's sounding good now...I don't really care if it's wrong it's the best I've heard it in my room.

-- woody