Treating Muscle Ailments

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Originally posted by mike lacey:
Morphine.

You are too lazy to take any other option.

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Not quite. As with everyone, if I'm not naturally inclined to do something, then forcing myself to "change" requires the never-ending application of willpower. I may consistently achieve a particular day-to-day behavior, but my underlying natural inclinations will not have changed. It will never be natural, and the tendency will always be to revert back to what is "normal" for me.

This is why willpower is not enough, in and of itself. I cannot merely will myself to workout at the gym. I've tried this repeatedly, and it's always lapsed. The reason for this is that it's not "natural" for me. I don't want to pay the monthly fees, allocate the extra time, drive there and back, find a place to park, change my clothes twice, move through the various machines, dodge the other attendees, wait my turn, etc. It's 95% pain, and 5% pleasure. No amount of self-talk will tip those scales.

If the entire gym were attached to my house, and I was the only one using it, then it might be different. However, I had to move my dumbbells to sit just under my side of the bed, such that I was always trying not to trip on them. When they were hidden in the closet, I would often "forget" to do my routine. With this in mind, having the entire gym in my basement might not be sufficient. I know some of you think this sounds patently silly, but if you consider it carefully, you'll realize that it makes perfect sense. For me, the proof is clear: My current approach has worked consistently for over a year, whereas prior alternatives have always failed. This is what I mean when I say, "It must be inevitable."

In the same fashion, my diet works well, because I don't bring anything into my house that I shouldn't be eating. If there are no cookies in the cupboard, then I can't eat any cookies. Making a special trip to the store when I feel like cookies is too much of a hassle. Hence, my good eating habits are inevitable.

This also relates to my water intake. When I first get up in the morning, I drink a big glass of water. In short order, I'll be visiting the washroom again, and every time that I do, I drink more water. By the end of the day, I've had at least 10 cups. It's inevitable. When I occasionally forget to drink that water at the start of the day, then I visit the washroom far less, and I don't drink enough water. That's inevitable too.

Inevitability is the best form willpower! And that's why going to a gym is not an option. It really has nothing to do with laziness. It's much more a matter of what will work on an ongoing basis, and what will not.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Why not find out what machine will do you the most good and then buy a professional standard one and install it in a spare room or garage.

Regards

Mick

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This is why willpower is not enough, in and of itself. I cannot merely will myself to workout at the gym. I've tried this repeatedly, and it's always lapsed. The reason for this is that it's not "natural" for me. I don't want to pay the monthly fees, allocate the extra time, drive there and back, find a place to park, change my clothes twice, move through the various machines, dodge the other attendees, wait my turn, etc. It's 95% pain, and 5% pleasure. No amount of self-talk will tip those scales.

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It seems as though you have answered your own question. It looks like you will have to suffer shoulder pain for the rest of your life.

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For me, the proof is clear: My current approach has worked consistently for over a year, whereas prior alternatives have always failed

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The only thing you have proved is that your routine is not working. You have two niggling pains that won't go away. Something is wrong and you need to address it. If that means you will have the hardship of driving to a gym three times a week for 1 1/2 hours, then so be it.

Mike

It seems to me that no-one knows what is causing these pains: not your doctor, chiropractor, not...etc and least of all you.

We don't know either.

You say that you can cope with stress - how do you know that? Your symptoms suggest, to me at least, that it is stress related muscle spasm - but what do I know? When did these pains start? And why tell us about them only now?

You seem to display the archetypical North American trait for self-evaluation, the striving to relate the physical to the mental, the desire to share (non-catholic confession?).

My advice – get another doctor’s opinion, insist on referral to a specialist, think less and drink more beer.

cheers

Nigel

Nigel.

I think you may have spoilt an otherwise extremely sensible post with your last line. Whilst it may just be that another medical opinion from a 'generalist' or 'specialist' will uncover some hidden solution it might be wise to consider that they may prove to be as unhelpful as this forum, just more expensive (and have a smarter office).

The snag with specialists, especially those that you pay to see, is that they have a greater tendency to come up with spurious diagnostic labelling and increasing agressive (and often unnecessary) interventions to justify their fee. This is a bit of a sweeping comment but it occurrs with surprising frequency-and it is not just true of conventional medical practitioners either.

Not every pain has a cause, not every problem has a solution.

One other comment on this thread from a professional perspective. If my car developed some odd creaks and faults at various times I would not expect the garage to give me detailed diagnostic advice, treatment plans and analysis of my driving behaviour over the phone (or by email). If they did I'd probably think they were being a bit sloppy. I'd expect them to ask me to bring the car in, do some checks, test it out etc. This thread contains lots of advice-from-a-distance, albeit much based on personal experience. I'd suggest to Mike that he takes it all into consideration but accepts its inherent limitations.

A bit like giving detailed HiFi advice without actually hearing the system ourselves!

Bruce

Bruce, an interesting reply doctor. I tend to agree with you for the most part but I feel that one should try every option to find the best result. Even a second opinion from a GP is worth a try.

Mike, there's no need to over drink! When you drink too much water, your body can't filter anything because it's too busy eliminating the excess water! The media loves giving generalized advice and it makes me cringe when I hear people drinking 10L of water/day because essentially they are going to the bathroom peeing out ... WATER!

Oh right, forget about your dieting and recent weight loss. Congrats on that. BTW, tuna is considered healthy but really is just less fattening than red meat. Sardines and salmon make your heart very happy.

Now about the public pool problem, that's easy. Build yourself a pool in the backyard. It's not only great exercise for you, but for your wife and child(ren) too. Buy an indoor model for year round relief and enjoyment. Expensive you say??? Nah, downsize the Naim

Some of you seem confused by my discussing these issues here, as if the Padded Cell weren't already rife with this type of banter.

No, I don't expect any of you to come up with a "cure" for me. I'm merely fishing for additional treatment approaches to be considered. Generally, people here on the Naim forum have good insights on many topics. I'm also asking around to various other friends and associates.

As to why I'm asking it now... I'm about to go for my regular check-up in a month or so, and I want to be prepared in case my GP has to give me a referral.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Mike

I'm not being critical of your approach, perhaps more advising caution to those who are keen to offer you advice.

The wide variety of opinions/treatments/advice etc being offerred by all and sundry is also something to be considered with healthy scepticism. In general if a condition has a profusion of solutions it would suggest that probably none are very good, or at best are heplful only for some of the people, some of the time. You are shopping around for advice and alternatives-seems sensible to me as you'll likely pick up the one that 'fits' you and your personal health model most comfortably. This makes it more likely to work for you. I'm just suggesting that people who talk about absolutes for any treatment modality/lifestyle etc etc are ignoring basic biology; we are all very different and respond in different ways as well as experiencing symptoms uniquely.

I should say that I have a reputation as a therapeutic nihilist, and also significant orthopaedic/sports medicine training. An odd combination come to think of it!

Bruce

[This message was edited by Bruce Woodhouse on Thu 15 April 2004 at 16:31.]

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Originally posted by count.d:
The only thing you have proved is that your routine is not working. You have two niggling pains that won't go away. Something is wrong and you need to address it. If that means you will have the hardship of driving to a gym three times a week for 1 1/2 hours, then so be it.

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At this point I have no clear indication that the problem would be "cured" by more excercise. Since I'm already performing a routine decreed by my physician, there's a good likelihood that a gym wouldn't help any more. It might even make it worse.

Once I get through this diagnostic stage, the treatment may involve more exercise. If that's the case, then I'll endeavour to do it at home, where it's most likely to continue indefinitely. If I have to go to the gym to "cure" it, then I'll probably stop attending once the symptoms disappear.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

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Originally posted by Bruce Woodhouse:
You are shopping around for advice and alternatives-seems sensible to me as you'll likely pick up the one that 'fits' you and your personal health model most comfortably. This makes it more likely to work for you.

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You're one of the few individuals involved in this thread who truly understand what I'm doing.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Actually that is my job!

Bruce

Just come late to this thread, and at the risk of making an incredibly obvious or stupid contribution, your remark:

'I've been working on the computer desk problem. My keyboard is probably a bit high, and it's too far away from me. (I rest my forearms on the desk while typing.) Also, I fidget a bit in my chair, often crossing and uncrossing my legs. Generally my shoulders are rounded. I've often considered that this is the root of my upper back problem, but tweaking the position of things didn't have much of an impact (yet).'

strikes an incredibly familiar chord with me. Over the last few years, I've had a variety of weird muscular pains in various parts of my back, neck, elbows & calves that can all be traced to Bad Computer Setup & Mousing Posture.

As they happened, computer use was absolutely the last thing I considered, the pain being so seemingly unconnected. Trouble turning my neck while parking, general lethargy and exhaustion while walking, vaguely indefinable aches just sitting holding a book - I was really worried. I went to the doctor, but she couldn't put a finger on what was wrong, and just suggested age and a lack of exercise [both undeniably true, but nothing to do with my problem, as it turned out].

I've got a bit of osteoarthiritis, and this in combination with getting straight out of bed for an hour or more session at the computer before my joints had fully warmed up seems to be the root cause. I think that my desk is too high, and my office style chair doesn't quite extend as high as it might. I've found that tweaking the various elements makes an incredible difference [just an inch in the chair/desk/monitor combo] - I may get different sorts of pain in different areas, but the fact that the pain moves seems to validate the general theory. I still haven't got things right, but at least know what's going on. If for any reason, I spend a couple of weeks away from the computer - guess what? It all goes away.

May I tentatively suggest that you take a break from the computer completely [hard, I know] for a few days, then move it to a different table or desk and use a different chair, for a week or so. If, as I think likely, you get a different sort of pain, [or perhaps no pain at all!] then at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you might be on the right track.

For myself, I'm still trying to find really specific guidelines on desk/ chair / monitor arrangements. I haven't found anything really useful on the web, but I'm still looking.

Needless to say, I didn't have this problem before the advent of broadband.

throb

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Originally posted by throbnorth:
May I tentatively suggest that you take a break from the computer completely [hard, I know] for a few days, then move it to a different table or desk and use a different chair, for a week or so. If, as I think likely, you get a different sort of pain, [or perhaps no pain at all!] then at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you might be on the right track.

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Thanks reminding me of that. I think I'll get myself a cheap little table that's supposedly the "proper" height, and then move my computer onto that for a while to see if there's any difference. If there is, then I'll have to replace my desk, as it's a big L-shaped, steel-framed table right now, and it would be almost impossible to retrofit it for a "keyboard drawer".

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Could you name a pain that doesn't have a cause?

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Could you name a pain that doesn't have a cause?

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Perhaps not in the purest sense of 'cause', since all pain is 'caused' by a combination of complex neuro-receptor interactions dependent on adverse stimulus, mood, previous experience etc.

However in the practical sense what I mean is that not all pain necessarily has a pathological basis in the apparent organ of origin. Helping the pain does not always involve treating the site of the pain therefore. This applies to many, many situations. Not a great example but you may be aware of the principle of phantom pain after amputation, whereby pain is felt to be experienced exactly as if in the toes of the missing limb. In post-stroke thalamic pain the actual lesion is intra-cerebral but pain is experienced in the limbs or face. The point is that organ pathology does not always correspond to the experience of pain. Experiences of pain are subjective, pain does not always mean disease.

My particular point with regard to this thread was to suggest that further diagnostic tests and specialist opinions do not always identify the cause of a pain (this may just be because we lack enough skills/tests/knowledge of course) and this should be considered before embarking on such a course. It can be frustrating, expensive and occasionally dangerous to over-investigate.

Without wishing to invoke the return of the estimable homeopath, one of the most striking things about his scheme was precisely that he he did indeed claim to have absolute answers to all health problems without any doubts or hesitations.

Bruce

[This message was edited by Bruce Woodhouse on Fri 16 April 2004 at 7:41.]

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Originally posted by count.d:
Could you name a pain that doesn't have a cause?

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