What are considered be THE WORST 'round earther' amps amongst Naimies?

Hello good point about PRat not being the only essential in good sound, although with out it...no good. To me tonal balance is very important and ironically does not have too much in comon with music. It is a hifi term and applies in my opinion because we are listening to music thru hifi. So a system that is bright ar hard sounding or has a tonal balance that I dont prefer is of no value to me,which is why I also like certain tube gear, to me their tonal balance is very nice and listenable and some has more Prat than others. Yhat is why I like VTL it has some Prat and great tonal balance. And again I feel especially with tubes it can depend on the speaker,just my thoughts,Ben r

Naimerhifi,

Pass Labs? Wow, never heard anyone criticize Pass Labs for not having PRAT. IMO, the X250 and X350, especially the latter, are amazing amps, with impressive drive and pace mixed with delicacy and refinement. I was strongly considering a used X350 before I decided to go with the NAP 250.2 (and 282/HC).

I went the Naim route because a) the X350 is enormous and can double as a space heater; b) I was tired of mixing and matching different amp/preamp brands and like having an obvious upgrade path; c) Naim stuff is comparatively less expensive (well, sort of); and d) my friend is the local Naim dealer (buying from someone I trust is important to me).

Just goes to show how different our ears can be.

Regards,

Chris

quote:

---

Originally posted by cens:
Pass Labs? Wow, never heard anyone criticize Pass Labs for not having PRAT.

---

cens,

Haven't dealt with X series, but Pass Aleph amps were all about spacious and liquid midrange and warm tonal balance. ( I had to look for the feet and did not find any. )

Kuma,

Ah...That could be it. Haven't heard the older Aleph series. Do recall reading that it was designed to sound "tube like" in the stereotypical sense of tubes.

Regards,

Chris

MUSICAL FIDELITY A100 (Basically a bigger, 50 w/ch fan cooled version of the A1) I used one on Quad ESLs many years ago, and at the time thought it was a good'un. Bought a s/h Pioneer A400 (£40 I think, a bargain as I remember) just to resell, and connected it to the Quads just to see what all the fuss was about. Needless to say, it was the A100 that appeared in Loot the following week! BTW I kept the A400 to the point of a LP12/Akito/K18, CD63KI & SARAS where a NAC12s/NAP160 took over...Sorry to waffle, lost the thread!!

Dear All

I don't know who makes the worst amps I think its all down to taste. I do however know who makes the best. With out a shadow of a doubt it's Bryston. Best value for money and best sound. Not the best looking though. 20 Year warrenty what more can you ask for.

Neill

This has to be the stupidest thread with the most stupid comments I have ever read on the Naim forum.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnMak:
This has to be the stupidest thread with the most stupid comments I have ever read on the Naim forum.

---

Well, I have to say, I think that's one of the stupidest comments on this thread

I suspect the original post was somewhat "tongue in cheek".......

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

Blythe,

What is you fav amp and why. I think we all agree the forum is for chatting about our hobby. So the previous comment is best just ignored. Wonder why he cam on a forum in the first place.

Neill

IMHO Copland CSA 14 and Mission Cyrus 1 and 2

Neill,

Here's some Zen-like philosophy. To know the best amp, you also have to know the worst amp.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

What about Cyrus - can't see it mentioned in this thread. I wavered between Cyrus and Naim for a while: made the right decision in the end - the Naim stuff was simply too much fun to leave in the shop. I know this doesn't compete in the same market as high end Naim, but it pretty much the main competiton for the 5's. Anyone else compared them?
And what abou the new Chord setup which is the best looking kit I've ever seen; beautiful styling and casing. The guy in our local Audio T said it also sounds fabulous.

Dear Neill

Sorry for the last comment but IMHO that was the 3 worst amp in the past 20 years ! IMHO!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Neill Ferguson:
Blythe,

What is you fav amp and why. I think we all agree the forum is for chatting about our hobby. So the previous comment is best just ignored. Wonder why he cam on a forum in the first place.

Neill

---

Favourite amp?
Well, that has to be favourite three amps: 3 x 250's of course!
Although Denson make some pretty good amps to.....
I think it all depends on what you personally want from an amp. I err towards an amp that does great PRaT but also like a certain amount of depth and warmth.
A NAP 300 does this but to my ears, 3 x (olive) 250's does it better. It is a fast, detailed, yet deep sound, which is what I like.
The amps that I've heard that bore me tend to be lacking in PRat - Musical Fidelity comes to mind; having said that, their Tri-Vista CD player was a huge improvement compared to a Meridian CD player with Chord DAC which I thought was dreadful.. But that's CD players and not amps which is the subject of this thread!

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

Pirinyo,

Some more zen for you. I know the best and there made by Bryston, nothing else comes close. As for the worst some more Zen, they can't all be that bad or the company's wouldn't be in business. They would simply be bankrupt cause if they were that bad no one would buy them.
Apart from Naim what have you used and tried.

Neill

Hy there! worst ampS 44 posts until now.
best amps 11 posts until now.
My conclusion:this(worst amp) thread is therapeutical very
important(and healing )to us,having the possibility to talk about our bad experiences ,forget them later on and get back our listener balance.
O.J:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Neill Ferguson:
Pirinyo,

Some more zen for you. I know the best and there made by Bryston, nothing else comes close. As for the worst some more Zen, they can't all be that bad or the company's wouldn't be in business. They would simply be bankrupt cause if they were that bad no one would buy them.
Apart from Naim what have you used and tried.

Neill

---

Hy Neill:Bryston is middleclass in round and in flatearth criterias imo.
But 20 years warranty seems to be a good sign
for building quality.

and denon or accuphase is also not bankrupt,also not b&o(i think soundwise the best of those three)
And no my question:Are these products bought
because of their sound?

O.J.

quote:

---

Originally posted by o.j.:and denon or accuphase is also not bankrupt,also not b&o(i think soundwise the best of those three)

---

You can't be serious!

Anyone ever heard of Rauch?

I had a Rauch power amp, something like DV-50 I think, which I think was more of a small 'hifi quality' PA amp. But the PRaT was laughable, it sqeezed out every last drop of rhythm and dutifully placed it in the bin.

O.J

Bryston make more amps for recording studio's world wide than any one else. To say there middle of the road, I find that one a little strange. Value for money wise there is nothing that comes close. Have you tried one???

Neill

I have tried Pioneer A400, Ion Obelisk 2 and 3, Audio Research D76, Mission Cyrus, Coplands, Musical Fidelity B200, Tempest , A100x , AGI 511A pre, Cambridge 300 or 500, Audio Note OTO , Audio Note Kit4, SONY TA NR-1, Audio Innovations First and Second Audio ...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Markus Sauer:

quote:

---

Originally posted by o.j.:and denon or accuphase is also not bankrupt,also not b&o(i think soundwise the best of those three)

---

You can't be serious!

---

hy Markus!
Is this your point of view or is this a question?
Trying to be seriousenon and Accuphase are
imo soundwise similar,i agree Accuphase is up
in building and quality of used parts.(i have good experiences with accuphase integrated and
klipsch corner hornspeakers.)
i have also b&o 7000 system at home.playing with triangle speakers it sounds quite o.k.
and more stable in bass than the Accuphase integrated.But not so aetheric in high frequencies.the smallest pre/end combo of Accuphase has the same tendencies.
To be honest(and serious) i would rate the bryston of course much better amp than the accuphase.
My worst combi i ever head at home was audioresearch sp11preamp with accuphase 102 amp
and infinity kappa.Hearing Rock music i had always the feeling the band played on a two mile broad stage and the drummer was still in the hotel.
Experts told me that bigger accuphase gear is
more stable in the deep frequencies,but i never
had the possibility to hear big accuphase amps.
who knows what i am missing?(not so serious
O.J.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Neill Ferguson:
O.J

Bryston make more amps for recording studio's world wide than any one else. To say there middle of the road, I find that one a little strange. Value for money wise there is nothing that comes close. Have you tried one???

Neill

---

Hy neill!i have tried bryston b4
with a bryston preamp and B&Speakers.
i agree that you get a lot of stable power for
a price that is very o.k.
round earth and flatearth is very balanced and
Bryston is a good choice in a studio because of
having better sound quality than the most cheap
pa amplifiers (that are often used in Studios)like zoff or crest or a lot of other brands in this price and sound class).Important for Studios is also Brystons excellent building quality. the bryston preamp
-the biggest factor of how an amp sounds-is not
used in studios because they have soundmixing consoles there.
what i said about middleclass is that there are
amps with hold prat better and there are amps that sound tonal correcter than bryston.(bryston is to my ears alittle bit dark sounding).but i agree to you they go soundwise
a very balanced way and they are not soooooooo
superexpensive.
O.J.

O.J

I tried replacing the front end of my system with the new Nap 250. I can't say I found much improvment to be honest. I have been looking at new speakers of late. I use snell e.5 towers for front and centre. The floor standers cost around £1,600. Don't have an unlimted budget do you have any suggestions. The dealers up here in Scotland don't seem to have anything that sounds a lot better. Did look at ART speakers but they cost £4k a little rich for my liking.
Any ideas???

Neill

quote:

---

Originally posted by Neill Ferguson:
O.J

I tried replacing the front end of my system with the new Nap 250. I can't say I found much improvment to be honest. I have been looking at new speakers of late. I use snell e.5 towers for front and centre. The floor standers cost around £1,600. Don't have an unlimted budget do you have any suggestions. The dealers up here in Scotland don't seem to have anything that sounds a lot better. Did look at ART speakers but they cost £4k a little rich for my liking.
Any ideas???

Neill

---

hy Neill!I do not know what was your font end before.But as i understand you have a surround system .

first advicelay only in stereo with the two
front speakers and try to find the best position in your room for those speakers.

I only once heared snell speakers but i remember it sounded ok.(cant remember the amplifier in that performance)

second advice:if your system still sounds bad
it is not a good idea to go for a bigger speaker of the same brand,maybe amplifier and speaker do not fit together soundwise and a bigger speakerchassis will need more power (new
problem)while it will not sound in an otherway(if it.s a snell again)