Three times table
Posted by: seagull on 02 April 2004
Mrs S was preparing to go out for the evening (a beer and skittles evening with the girlies but without the beer). Miss S was asleep and seagull junior was lying on the sofa watching TV. I surreptitiously slipped out to the garage to fetch the tools I required (a spanner and a spirit level).
Clearing the space next to the Q4 rack I plonked the Audiotech table kindly left by Dave J after the Rider's visit. I checked the levels, perfect left to right, just a slight slope front to back so I adjusted the spikes slightly to correct that. Tried again - not quite perfect but good enough for practical purposes. I then switched off the CD5 and removed it from the top of the Quadraspire Q4 stand; it was going to have a rest for the evening.
At this point Malcolm arrived, LPs in hand, so we went through to the listening room. The stands looked like the winners podium at the Olympics, the 4-tier Q4 flanked by the shorter Sound Organisation and Audiotech tables. The LP12 was sitting in its regular position on the SO stand the speakers has been returned to their normal position after their weekend's exertions.
Because Miss seagull was asleep the volumes were kept to sociable levels, I think the 250 was quite relieved.
Music choices, in order of play...
Initial thoughts were that the SO and Audiotech tables were similar in design. Both have
One difference being that the board on the SO table lies inside the frame, the Audiotech it is on top.
Started off with the T-Bone on the Sound Org table. We played this right through; the normal dynamics we have come to expect from this song were there in abundance. The drums were right there and the guitar being played lustily.
At this point Mrs S came in to say she was going out and to see if I was going to be all right. She saw Malcolm was with me and gave me that look again. "Enjoy yourselves then, I am sure you will".
Switched the LP12 carefully to the Audiotech and played the same track. The volume setting was the same but it somehow sounded much quieter. At the volume (about 10-o-clock) it seemed to be a more rounded sound, the instruments sounded a bit more natural (especially the guitar) but the drums didn't seem to have the same attack. The band seemed to be playing in The Eden Project and not in the room with us. I wasn't entirely convinced that the sound was or me.
So on to the Q4. The song suddenly sounded muddy and everything seemed to lose its definition. The sharpness that was evident with both the other tables had gone. To be fair, this rack was also supporting a 72, 250 and two hi-caps so was handicapped. It is well documented that LP12s prefer a lightweight table (although they sound brilliant on a heavily loaded Fraim - but that's another story).
We repeated the test with the Joni Mitchell song. Again it sounded brighter and forward on the Sound Organisation table. The Audiotech handled this very well indeed. The bass and Joni's voice sounded much more natural, it was growing on me. We tried briefly with the Q4 but it struggled to match the other two.
On to The Chameleons. The Sound Org gave the up front attack that I was used to and liked. Miss Seagull had woken up by this point so the volume could be turned up (it says play it loud on the tin). The drums kicked in with the guitars, aaah bliss. Switched to the Audiotech, again it was a more relaxed presentation but the music flowed, and the guitars were becoming more separated, it was definitely growing on me.
At this point Malcolm had to go. He said that he preferred the Audiotech table; he said it sounded more natural and less harsh. He switched from M*** to Fraim for his LP12 (see match of the dayso that was where he was coming from.
I returned to the listening room and proceeded to swap the two stands around, again fiddling slightly with the spikes on the Audiotech so that it now stood in place of the SO table. I have been leant the Audiotech Table by Dave J to try for a while so I thought I'd put it in place for an extended trial.
I sorted out a microwave meal for myself then returned and put The Chameleons back on but from the start of the album. I got to the end of the side then remembered that there was something for me in the kitchen. It needed another nuke so I put it on and changed the record to The Cure. "A Forest" came and went and on to the side's closing title track. I was feeling hungry by now and again returned to the kitchen. The food was still hot and not too unpleasant so I opened a bottle of Summer Lightning and sat down to eat and listen to "Real Life". Time for some Prog I thought so it was Starship Trooper from The Yes Album, I just love the guitar riff towards the end of the song...
These are all albums I have owned for over 20 years and know them well, the first two are in my all time top 10 albums. I realised I had stopped listening to the hi-fi and was listening to the music. The Audiotech table had disappeared from the soundscape. The music was flowing and the sistem was sounding very good indeed (the 250 seems to have fully recovered from its rough treatment at the week-end). It was one of those evenings when the music sounded so good I just had to play some more (this has become more frequent since I moved to the Den, got the spurs installed, the listening chair - surprised no-one mentioned it in the Riders thread, the 250 etc.)
I intend to try it for a few days then put the SO table back into the equation again then see what I think. The sound is much more rounded and fluid than the SO table. I was not convinced at first but as my ears tuned in to it I came to really enjoy what I was listening to.
It is highly likely that it will be a cheque going to East Sussex and not some metal tubing and board. Is this another piece in my jigsaw?
The final result?
1st Audiotech table 2/1 (Fav)
2nd Sound Organisation table 100/30
3rd Quadraspire Q4 5/1
Distances. 1 length, a mile
Mrs Seagull's comments this morning?
"Why is there a spanner and spirit level in the Den?"
then, looking more closely at the kit
"You can't have it, the spikes don't fit in the holes in the carpet!"
Clearing the space next to the Q4 rack I plonked the Audiotech table kindly left by Dave J after the Rider's visit. I checked the levels, perfect left to right, just a slight slope front to back so I adjusted the spikes slightly to correct that. Tried again - not quite perfect but good enough for practical purposes. I then switched off the CD5 and removed it from the top of the Quadraspire Q4 stand; it was going to have a rest for the evening.
At this point Malcolm arrived, LPs in hand, so we went through to the listening room. The stands looked like the winners podium at the Olympics, the 4-tier Q4 flanked by the shorter Sound Organisation and Audiotech tables. The LP12 was sitting in its regular position on the SO stand the speakers has been returned to their normal position after their weekend's exertions.
Because Miss seagull was asleep the volumes were kept to sociable levels, I think the 250 was quite relieved.
Music choices, in order of play...
- "The Sixties" by T-Bone Burnett (Malcolm's). This is a very well recorded song, and has been used to demonstrate hi-fi. We have used it before when comparing stands; the relatively sparse instrumentation and the clarity of the recording make it ideal to pick up the relative differences between things.
- "God Must be a Boogey Man" - Off Mingus by Joni Mitchell (Malcolm's). This is a live recording, the interesting points here, apart from the quality of the playing, are the crowd singing along (When we tried this on Fraim vs M***, you could hear the crowd singing in your face on one, and a group of individuals singing happily in the background on the other. I will let you guess which was which!)
- "Second Skin" by The Chameleons. This is one of mine and more typical of the kind of stuff that I listen to. It has a great intro that eases in with a simple keyboard coda until the drums and guitars kick in with a vengeance.
After Malcolm had gone I played some more representative music ... - The rest of "Script of the Bridge" by The Chameleons
- "Seventeen Seconds" by The Cure
- "Real Life" by Magazine
- "Starship Trooper" off the Yes Album (well I had to try some prog, didn't I?)
Initial thoughts were that the SO and Audiotech tables were similar in design. Both have
- Spikes into the floor,
- spikes supporting the board that the LP12 sits on
- black with the manufacturer's name along the top front edge.
One difference being that the board on the SO table lies inside the frame, the Audiotech it is on top.
Started off with the T-Bone on the Sound Org table. We played this right through; the normal dynamics we have come to expect from this song were there in abundance. The drums were right there and the guitar being played lustily.
At this point Mrs S came in to say she was going out and to see if I was going to be all right. She saw Malcolm was with me and gave me that look again. "Enjoy yourselves then, I am sure you will".
Switched the LP12 carefully to the Audiotech and played the same track. The volume setting was the same but it somehow sounded much quieter. At the volume (about 10-o-clock) it seemed to be a more rounded sound, the instruments sounded a bit more natural (especially the guitar) but the drums didn't seem to have the same attack. The band seemed to be playing in The Eden Project and not in the room with us. I wasn't entirely convinced that the sound was or me.
So on to the Q4. The song suddenly sounded muddy and everything seemed to lose its definition. The sharpness that was evident with both the other tables had gone. To be fair, this rack was also supporting a 72, 250 and two hi-caps so was handicapped. It is well documented that LP12s prefer a lightweight table (although they sound brilliant on a heavily loaded Fraim - but that's another story).
We repeated the test with the Joni Mitchell song. Again it sounded brighter and forward on the Sound Organisation table. The Audiotech handled this very well indeed. The bass and Joni's voice sounded much more natural, it was growing on me. We tried briefly with the Q4 but it struggled to match the other two.
On to The Chameleons. The Sound Org gave the up front attack that I was used to and liked. Miss Seagull had woken up by this point so the volume could be turned up (it says play it loud on the tin). The drums kicked in with the guitars, aaah bliss. Switched to the Audiotech, again it was a more relaxed presentation but the music flowed, and the guitars were becoming more separated, it was definitely growing on me.
At this point Malcolm had to go. He said that he preferred the Audiotech table; he said it sounded more natural and less harsh. He switched from M*** to Fraim for his LP12 (see match of the dayso that was where he was coming from.
I returned to the listening room and proceeded to swap the two stands around, again fiddling slightly with the spikes on the Audiotech so that it now stood in place of the SO table. I have been leant the Audiotech Table by Dave J to try for a while so I thought I'd put it in place for an extended trial.
I sorted out a microwave meal for myself then returned and put The Chameleons back on but from the start of the album. I got to the end of the side then remembered that there was something for me in the kitchen. It needed another nuke so I put it on and changed the record to The Cure. "A Forest" came and went and on to the side's closing title track. I was feeling hungry by now and again returned to the kitchen. The food was still hot and not too unpleasant so I opened a bottle of Summer Lightning and sat down to eat and listen to "Real Life". Time for some Prog I thought so it was Starship Trooper from The Yes Album, I just love the guitar riff towards the end of the song...
These are all albums I have owned for over 20 years and know them well, the first two are in my all time top 10 albums. I realised I had stopped listening to the hi-fi and was listening to the music. The Audiotech table had disappeared from the soundscape. The music was flowing and the sistem was sounding very good indeed (the 250 seems to have fully recovered from its rough treatment at the week-end). It was one of those evenings when the music sounded so good I just had to play some more (this has become more frequent since I moved to the Den, got the spurs installed, the listening chair - surprised no-one mentioned it in the Riders thread, the 250 etc.)
I intend to try it for a few days then put the SO table back into the equation again then see what I think. The sound is much more rounded and fluid than the SO table. I was not convinced at first but as my ears tuned in to it I came to really enjoy what I was listening to.
It is highly likely that it will be a cheque going to East Sussex and not some metal tubing and board. Is this another piece in my jigsaw?
The final result?
1st Audiotech table 2/1 (Fav)
2nd Sound Organisation table 100/30
3rd Quadraspire Q4 5/1
Distances. 1 length, a mile
Mrs Seagull's comments this morning?
"Why is there a spanner and spirit level in the Den?"
then, looking more closely at the kit
"You can't have it, the spikes don't fit in the holes in the carpet!"