Chavs
Posted by: Steve Bull on 15 October 2004
Go to www.argos.co.uk and do a search for chav. The results made me smile anyway...
Steve
It's a grand old team to play for...
Steve
It's a grand old team to play for...
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Martin D
http://www.chavscum.co.uk/
Name your Chav Baby is a good place to start
Martin
PS their forum works a dam site better than this one, sez a lot me thinks
Name your Chav Baby is a good place to start
Martin
PS their forum works a dam site better than this one, sez a lot me thinks
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by MarkEJ
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bull:
The results made me smile anyway...
Brilliant! How do they do that?
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Rana Ali
MartinD beat me to it.....also check out the related site www.chavtowns.co.uk
I just came across the "Chav" term for the first time on the PFM forum.
Rana
I just came across the "Chav" term for the first time on the PFM forum.
Rana
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Deane F
Why "chav"?
You'll have to help me out here. I visited the scum site and get the general idea. I'm just interested to know the derivation of the word.
Deane
You'll have to help me out here. I visited the scum site and get the general idea. I'm just interested to know the derivation of the word.
Deane
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by matthewr
It's a corruption of the Romany word for child (which I forget). Basically it's a way of calling a certain type of white working class people "gypyo" or "pikey" (from those who earned their living on the turnpike) without being quite so gratuitously offensive or blatantly racist.
Careful speakers avoid it and are at least aware of its potential to offend.
Matthew
Careful speakers avoid it and are at least aware of its potential to offend.
Matthew
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Rana Ali
From Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary
"In Britain there are many words to describe people from this social group, and they are often limited to a particular town or region. Other words with a similar meaning to chav are townie, scally, ned and charver. The word chav has become common in southern England, and is generally thought to come from Chatham girls (Chatham is a town in Kent.) Some people think, however, that the word comes originally from the Romany word chavo (boy), which is also the origin of the Spanish word chaval. "
Also while googling the 2nd listed item was from Argos! Someone there is being mischevious.
"In Britain there are many words to describe people from this social group, and they are often limited to a particular town or region. Other words with a similar meaning to chav are townie, scally, ned and charver. The word chav has become common in southern England, and is generally thought to come from Chatham girls (Chatham is a town in Kent.) Some people think, however, that the word comes originally from the Romany word chavo (boy), which is also the origin of the Spanish word chaval. "
Also while googling the 2nd listed item was from Argos! Someone there is being mischevious.
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Steve Toy
I picked up a fare tonight - two lads in their mid twenties and neither of them could normally be classified as chavs.
One of them who lives at a rather non-chav address - a large house on a leafy arterial route to town about a mile away from the town centre, wants to dress as one for tomorrow night. The three of us had a quick brainstorming session as to what would constitute the most chavish attire. We came up with the following:
1) Baseball cap. Preferably fake Burberry.
2) Tracksuit bottoms or top.
3) Whiter-than-white Reebok or Nike trainers.
4) Chunky jewellery made from "bad gold."
5) Designer label T shirt.
6) Smartphone worn around the neck, or fliptop phone on constant display.
No. 6 would have to be s/h as all chavs are on pay-as-you go and as such could never afford to buy a brand new handset every year or so.
The search for "chav" on the Argos site reveals some "bad" but rather expensive gold.
Regards,
Steve.
[This message was edited by Steven Toy on Sat 16 October 2004 at 5:17.]
One of them who lives at a rather non-chav address - a large house on a leafy arterial route to town about a mile away from the town centre, wants to dress as one for tomorrow night. The three of us had a quick brainstorming session as to what would constitute the most chavish attire. We came up with the following:
1) Baseball cap. Preferably fake Burberry.
2) Tracksuit bottoms or top.
3) Whiter-than-white Reebok or Nike trainers.
4) Chunky jewellery made from "bad gold."
5) Designer label T shirt.
6) Smartphone worn around the neck, or fliptop phone on constant display.
No. 6 would have to be s/h as all chavs are on pay-as-you go and as such could never afford to buy a brand new handset every year or so.
The search for "chav" on the Argos site reveals some "bad" but rather expensive gold.
Regards,
Steve.
[This message was edited by Steven Toy on Sat 16 October 2004 at 5:17.]
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by ErikL
Wow Toy that's all very original.
Posted on: 16 October 2004 by matthewr
Tom,
There are indeed lots of regional variants with "Chav" being (originally) predominantly the SE London/Kent version. Aspects of that area do have (whether accurate or not) a strong association in the minds of some with travellers and gypsies. So, for example, when Gillingham play Millwall, the Millwall fans have lots of songs about them being Gypsies (e.g. "The wheels on your house go round and round"). There is (or perhaps was) therefore a clear association between travellers/gypsies and lots of the behaviour and dress we now assocatie with the terms "Chav".
Although interestingly, perhaps, the gypsy connotation is mostly favoured amongst the white working classes themselves (i.e. those the middle classes like to call Chavs) indicating that beneath the "Chav" strata of, say, Bermondsey, lies a sort of untermensch where the social meaning and "racial" meaning combine. The "chavs", it seems, like to have their "gypos" in the same way the middle classes like to have their chavs as it were.
The association is even more obvious when you consider that these jokes and social observations have been around for a lot longer than the recent fashion of the last couple of years, and before that by far the most dominant word was "Pikey" which was the favoured term for most of Southern England. "Chav" was a very local term to Kent and largely unknown outside there until websites likes Chatham girls (where the erroneous chav = chatham comes from), chavscum, etc. populised it and gave lazy journalists in low rent mags like Zoo and Nuts an easy "How to spot a Chav" pagefiller.
"Chav" is of course far less offensive than "pikey" which has a long history as a term of abuse for not only gypsies but also the Irish, but, for some at least, the derivation of "chav" from the Romany and it's original racist/abusive intent remains uncomfortable.
Personally I prefer "pred". Although this came about directly from "pikey" -- the word "pike" was banned on the Guardian website, leading to 'Thread to Discuss Predatory Freshwater Fish', which got shortened to "pred" -- it's relativelyly obtuse derivatrion, modern coinage and lack of history association with abuse means it seems to cause no offense. It's also a much batter word than "chav" which is very ugly on the tongue and clumsy I always felt.
FWIW my niece and my nephew wear Aquascutum, Nickleson, Hackett, Burberry, etc. live on a council estate and would be described by many here as "chavs". In the local vernacular (Blackpool in their csae) they are "townies" and get much piss-taking from my other nephew (a "mosher" on account of his skate/punkish mode of dress). The townie branch of the Robinsons are of course nice, decent people despite their preference for heavily logo'd desinger wear.
Matthew
There are indeed lots of regional variants with "Chav" being (originally) predominantly the SE London/Kent version. Aspects of that area do have (whether accurate or not) a strong association in the minds of some with travellers and gypsies. So, for example, when Gillingham play Millwall, the Millwall fans have lots of songs about them being Gypsies (e.g. "The wheels on your house go round and round"). There is (or perhaps was) therefore a clear association between travellers/gypsies and lots of the behaviour and dress we now assocatie with the terms "Chav".
Although interestingly, perhaps, the gypsy connotation is mostly favoured amongst the white working classes themselves (i.e. those the middle classes like to call Chavs) indicating that beneath the "Chav" strata of, say, Bermondsey, lies a sort of untermensch where the social meaning and "racial" meaning combine. The "chavs", it seems, like to have their "gypos" in the same way the middle classes like to have their chavs as it were.
The association is even more obvious when you consider that these jokes and social observations have been around for a lot longer than the recent fashion of the last couple of years, and before that by far the most dominant word was "Pikey" which was the favoured term for most of Southern England. "Chav" was a very local term to Kent and largely unknown outside there until websites likes Chatham girls (where the erroneous chav = chatham comes from), chavscum, etc. populised it and gave lazy journalists in low rent mags like Zoo and Nuts an easy "How to spot a Chav" pagefiller.
"Chav" is of course far less offensive than "pikey" which has a long history as a term of abuse for not only gypsies but also the Irish, but, for some at least, the derivation of "chav" from the Romany and it's original racist/abusive intent remains uncomfortable.
Personally I prefer "pred". Although this came about directly from "pikey" -- the word "pike" was banned on the Guardian website, leading to 'Thread to Discuss Predatory Freshwater Fish', which got shortened to "pred" -- it's relativelyly obtuse derivatrion, modern coinage and lack of history association with abuse means it seems to cause no offense. It's also a much batter word than "chav" which is very ugly on the tongue and clumsy I always felt.
FWIW my niece and my nephew wear Aquascutum, Nickleson, Hackett, Burberry, etc. live on a council estate and would be described by many here as "chavs". In the local vernacular (Blackpool in their csae) they are "townies" and get much piss-taking from my other nephew (a "mosher" on account of his skate/punkish mode of dress). The townie branch of the Robinsons are of course nice, decent people despite their preference for heavily logo'd desinger wear.
Matthew
Posted on: 16 October 2004 by Not For Me
Chavism is an interesting social phenomena, Which I study in an amateur way when visiting different places. The position of being a Chav brings with it a number of expected norms for the 'Chav' group , namely:
- sportswear clothing but no desire to do any sport (except perhaps running with a car stereo under the arm)
- Limited language skills, and strange hip-hop derived slang (In Portsmouth ? Why?)
- Pride in lack or absence of education
- Desire to clan together with other Chavs (you rarely see a lone Chav)
- Desire to reproduce at the very onset of puberty
- Desire to shorten life expectency via smoking, binge drinking and unhealthy junk food diet
- Lack of respect for others and thier property
- Expectation for the state system to support them from cradle to grave
- Racist and sexist.
- Requirement to stick as many spoilers as possible on thier hot hatches (no insurance / road tax / licence required)
- Mobile phone glued to ear
- Incessant sniffing, as though snot is being produced in such quantities that no Kleenex or sleeve can cope
The tragedy is that these stereotypical attributes are assigned to the group because they are generally true!
There have been many other 'yoof' culture clusters of clothing and attitude over the years, but none so depressing and negative as the Chav.
I don't see the association of Chavs and travellers / Gypsies ? I guess even the Chavs need somebody to look down on, as Matthew says.
I must be getting old & reactionary!
DS
OTD - Move D - Hurt Me
*** All the views expressed within this e-mail are the sole responsibility of DS, and as such are subject to chaining ***
- sportswear clothing but no desire to do any sport (except perhaps running with a car stereo under the arm)
- Limited language skills, and strange hip-hop derived slang (In Portsmouth ? Why?)
- Pride in lack or absence of education
- Desire to clan together with other Chavs (you rarely see a lone Chav)
- Desire to reproduce at the very onset of puberty
- Desire to shorten life expectency via smoking, binge drinking and unhealthy junk food diet
- Lack of respect for others and thier property
- Expectation for the state system to support them from cradle to grave
- Racist and sexist.
- Requirement to stick as many spoilers as possible on thier hot hatches (no insurance / road tax / licence required)
- Mobile phone glued to ear
- Incessant sniffing, as though snot is being produced in such quantities that no Kleenex or sleeve can cope
The tragedy is that these stereotypical attributes are assigned to the group because they are generally true!
There have been many other 'yoof' culture clusters of clothing and attitude over the years, but none so depressing and negative as the Chav.
I don't see the association of Chavs and travellers / Gypsies ? I guess even the Chavs need somebody to look down on, as Matthew says.
I must be getting old & reactionary!
DS
OTD - Move D - Hurt Me
*** All the views expressed within this e-mail are the sole responsibility of DS, and as such are subject to chaining ***
Posted on: 16 October 2004 by Deane F
Yep.
You know, I never thought I'd say it, but young people these days!
In my day....
Deane
You know, I never thought I'd say it, but young people these days!
In my day....
Deane
Posted on: 16 October 2004 by Kevin-W
When I was growing up in Kent in the 1970s, we used "chav" frequently as a greeting (as in "alright chav?").
It was also used to describe anyone who was a "lad" – ie someone who went to the football, smoked, got his end away before age 16, skived off double Latin or games, that sort of thing; it was usually a badge of honour to be a "chav' as it meant you had the respect (and sometimes awe) of your peers - important when you're 14.
A variant on "chav" was "chuff' (although that could also mean "poof", depending who was saying it, so you had to be careful).
Those who would nowadays be called "chavs" were, in my part of the world back then, were called "pikeys" or "dids".
My family all come from Eltham/Shooters Hill/Lewisham/Woolwich/Plumstead way and I remember "chav" being used an awful lot in the SE London badlands, as Matthew has pointed out. And "pikey" was, in the 70s, an enormously common term of abuse in South and East London.
It is still used a lot in football circles - among West Ham fans, Millwall are taunted with the epithet "pikeys", as are Reading and Gillingham, and, occasionally, Charlton.
Kevin
It was also used to describe anyone who was a "lad" – ie someone who went to the football, smoked, got his end away before age 16, skived off double Latin or games, that sort of thing; it was usually a badge of honour to be a "chav' as it meant you had the respect (and sometimes awe) of your peers - important when you're 14.
A variant on "chav" was "chuff' (although that could also mean "poof", depending who was saying it, so you had to be careful).
Those who would nowadays be called "chavs" were, in my part of the world back then, were called "pikeys" or "dids".
My family all come from Eltham/Shooters Hill/Lewisham/Woolwich/Plumstead way and I remember "chav" being used an awful lot in the SE London badlands, as Matthew has pointed out. And "pikey" was, in the 70s, an enormously common term of abuse in South and East London.
It is still used a lot in football circles - among West Ham fans, Millwall are taunted with the epithet "pikeys", as are Reading and Gillingham, and, occasionally, Charlton.
Kevin
Posted on: 16 October 2004 by matthewr
In the North West where I grew up, the closely related "Charve" and "Charver" could mean either a general "lad" or "bloke" or else, more specifically and often in rural contexts, a sort of itinerant farm worker/labourer. A sort of travelling odd job man if you will.
Matthew
Matthew
Posted on: 17 October 2004 by Kevin-W
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Alves:quote:from
Originally posted by Kevin-W:
Those who would nowadays be called "chavs" were, in my part of the world back then, were called "pikeys" or "dids".
didicoy, diddicoy?
n. person who lives like a gypsy but is not a true Romany.
Tom
http://www.activesbl.plus.com/RecordIndex.htm
Indeed Tom. A "did" was short for a "didicoy", but was used to describe anyone funded by social security (and nefarious other activities) of unkempt appearance, workshy demeanour, etc, not just a smelly dosser posing as a Romany.
Kevin (BBC Radio 4: Broadcasting House)
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by TomK
Yes they're known as Neds up here and Glasgow has some of the best around. The Trongate is full of them and Burberry accessories are pretty much required. If you manage to get a glimpse under the baseball jacket you'll often see a "Shellick tap", probably unwashed for several months, the hoops a pleasant "green and grey".
I don't buy the "non-educated delinquent" thing. This has only been heard in recent times, while Ned itself is an old term, in use at least since I was a kid in the late fifties, and I think way before that.
I don't buy the "non-educated delinquent" thing. This has only been heard in recent times, while Ned itself is an old term, in use at least since I was a kid in the late fifties, and I think way before that.
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by matthewr
Of course only the uneducated would use a dubious adjectival form like "non-educated".
Matthew
Matthew
Posted on: 21 October 2004 by BLT
I see a great way of ridding our society of this problem group and appeasing the Countryside Alliance types at the same time. Why not have a Ned Cull, and let the CA squad organise it? That way they wouldn't have to have all their dogs put down. Just give the hounds the scent of a burberry cap and set them loose.....
Posted on: 21 October 2004 by Top Cat
Amen to that, BLT. Perhaps combine it with big-game hunting...
Posted on: 21 October 2004 by Steve Toy
Let's send all those middle-lane-hogging SUV drivers off-road and hunt them down. 
Regards,
Steve.
Regards,
Steve.
Posted on: 28 November 2004 by Roy T
Posted on: 29 November 2004 by The mole man
Death to all Chavs.
Mole Man
Mole Man
Posted on: 30 November 2004 by Kevin-W
I had the misfortune to visit Sutton in Surrey yesterday. It really is Chav Central.
Posted on: 30 November 2004 by Not For Me
In Worthing at the weekend. Found the only space left on the street, parked the car, reversing into the space, which required a little gang of chavs to move out the way, with filthy looks and muttering from them.
Came back to the car after the party, to find both wing mirrors totally bent out of shape.
I pushed them back, and went into the hotel. In the morning they were bent up again.
What a pointless and useless act? They didn't quite have the courage to run a key along the side thank God!
Just as well I didn't take the good car.
DS
ITC - Various Artists - Mikrolux Mikromix.One
*** All the views expressed within this e-mail are the sole responsibility of DS, or the other person in his head ***
Came back to the car after the party, to find both wing mirrors totally bent out of shape.
I pushed them back, and went into the hotel. In the morning they were bent up again.
What a pointless and useless act? They didn't quite have the courage to run a key along the side thank God!
Just as well I didn't take the good car.
DS
ITC - Various Artists - Mikrolux Mikromix.One
*** All the views expressed within this e-mail are the sole responsibility of DS, or the other person in his head ***
Posted on: 30 November 2004 by MichaelC
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin-W:
I had the misfortune to visit Sutton in Surrey yesterday. It really is Chav Central.
You have my commiserations.
There is no redeeming feature about Sutton whatsoever. The prolapse of the UK.
Mike